State Coalition Approves Internet Sales Tax Plan (The Greedy Hand At Work!)

Washington (com)Post ^ | 11/12/2002 | Brian Krebs

[Recovering_Democrat]

Revenue-hungry states today took the first step toward building a national framework for taxing items sold over the Internet.

In a meeting in Chicago, lawmakers and tax officials from 30 states -- including Virginia and the District of Columbia - endorsed a proposal to simplify their tax laws and enter into a voluntary pact to collect online sales taxes.

[HoundsTooth_BP]

Are you dysfunctional or something?

He CHARGES for the SERVICE of re-playing a broadcast, but his LIVE internet broadcast can be had FOR FREE ...

(You DON'T THINK that it takes real, live RESOURCES to provide ANY kind of service on the internet?)


You don't have to get nasty. He has a perfect right to charge for re-playing a broadcast, and yes, his LIVE broadcast is for FREE....but my point is he wants us to listen on our radio to him and we can tape it off the radio for later if we want to, in fact, I have some songs. Anyway
radio station IMHO already pay for his show and I think they should be allowed to send out their LIVE broadcasts anyway they want too, including REAL PLAYER. If you all want to pay for re-play more power to you.

[The Duke]

I say let the states exercise their perrogatives with regard to taxes on Internet sales, subject of course to any constraints imposed by that pesky ol' US Constitution. I mean, it's just not logical that a more efficient means of making purchases should not be taxed simply by virtue of its efficiency.

It amazes me how many of my fellow conservatives will gripe about new taxes and yet exert so little effort to lift existing tax burdens.

[HoundsTooth_BP]

If any company wants to charge for a service they have the right to. The day we introduce regulations forcing companies to share their goods to be "fair" then we might as well remove the stars and put the hammer and sickle on the flag instead.


You make a giant leap. All I am saying is that I liked the Internet without regulations. I believe in freedom and charging whatever you want.

[TopQuark]

Who is keeping the brick and mortar businessman from entering cyberspace? No one. Now, you assume that this is a good thing, entering the cyberspace. Firstly, this is just an assumption. Secondly, this is not how economy functions and distortions appear: I did not say that that the tax will help them: it with stop what is hurting them now. Again, there is a difference.

If you disagree, that is fine, but you may want to read on the distortionary effects of taxation. In essence, it moves the capitale differently from where it would have gone in the absence of tax. The amount of tax affects the size of the capital, but the unequal taxation creates perverted incentives as to where the already reduced capital flows. The size and structure are different things.

[TopQuark]

To the best of my knowledge, catalogue sales are taxed if the seller has a brick-and-mortar site in your state.

I personally do not have a detailed opinion on the matter because that requires a detailed study. However, a simple dismissal of any tax is wrong for the reasons I mentioned. It is also wrong --- and that was the motivation for my original post --- to be against that tax because we think that the tax burden is high.

In sum, I do no pretend to know what is completely "right," that is, best in this situation. But that does not preclude one to recognize some wrong arguments, does it?

[TopQuark]

Sorry to disappoint you with my "hollow statements," but you do not seem to know the difference between knowledge and anecdotal evidence.

I own both. I set up two seperate companies, one brick and mortar and to exploit my volume discounts an internet resale company also. GOod for you. It may work in your sector, with good you provide, with segment of the market you serve.

Even in this area you have no idea (unless you have done research and not sales) who has left you. Your remark is a great example of an error of many practitioners: they listen to their customers. That's easy: what is hard is to listen to those who are not your customers.

trying to use taxation to structure social policy to preserve brick and mortar shops, then you are no better than the tax and spend Pelosis and Kennedys of this world. I did not say that, you did.

Another false premise. Most of my older customers now prefer to deal with my internet company? That is among your customers. Another example of how little knowlege is more dangerous than none at all.

efficiency into the market place which is a requirement for growth in any industry. Look, you may be a suceessful businessman --- and I am happy for you if you are. BUt why don't you stick to business and do not assume that economy and your business is the same thing.

Efficiency sometimes exludes people from the market entirely. It's not your responsibility to take care of them as you are running a business, but it is a responsibility of those who are running the economy.

If you want a "fair" economy, move to Cuba or France. It's a deal: I'll do that if you finish college first.

I apologize in advance for this: BWHWHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHM No need to apologize: we are laughing together.

ce when the hell has any government EVER reduced the tax level AFTER a new tax has been intorduced???? Again, learn to read before you laugh: I did not say that the internet tax should be reduced.

You want a liberal solution to a business problem.

That's all you have told us so far: that you are a businessman. But you are discussing not business but the economy. The business class is down the hall; you are in a wrong room. Government action distorts and slows down free enterprise and innovation.

We finally agree on something: it does distort and it does slow priovate enterprize. This is because enterpreneurs like you can only produce private goods and someone has to take care of public ones.

So stick with what you do best: produce your private goods. Just understand that this is not all the universe consists of, and be a little humble: there is knowledge beyond what you see in your own store.

[SolidSupplySide]

Since when the hell has any government EVER reduced the tax level AFTER a new tax has been intorduced????

In 2001, the Bush administration and a Republican Congress reduced income tax rates. At the same time, they created a plan to eliminate the death tax altogether.

Sales taxes do seem to only increase, though. I'm sure there have been instances in history where they've been reduced, but I can't think of any.

Also, the point needs to be made to sales tax advocates that this plan is essentially a national sales tax. The fears of sales tax opponents have come to pass -- a national sales tax without the repeal of the income tax. The pro-sales-tax crowd never fully thought through the economic consequences of their tax. Neither did they consider the practical consequences we see in this article. In short, sales tax advocates don't think.

[prisoner6]

TAX! TAX! TAX!

The ignorant, socialist boogers just don't get it. THERE"S TOO MUCH TAX NOW!

Here in the rat run socialist stronghold of Pittsburgh not only are we shackled to a never-ending one percent addition to our local sales tax, but Mayor Murph the Smurph is proposing a new half percent payroll tax as well as a 10 percent tax on each alcholic drink. The city is on the brink of bankruptcy, facing a huge budget shortfall.

Property taxes are way out of sight, and many people are being forced out of their homes.

Adding to the mix is the Governor Elect Fast Eddie Rendell who wants to do to the state what he did as mayor to Philadelphia.

The internet tax agreement is icing on the cake, and it affects everyone. As I see it the plan is just another attack by buggy whip manufacturers to stave off The Future.

Pittsburgh and Pennsylvania taxpayers bend over and grab your ankles! The next couple of year are NOT gonna be easy.

prisoner6

[prisoner6]

Some people in business tell me they pocket it..In this way, the "Free Shipping" is paid for.

In my reply I mentioned a new local tax being proposed in Pittsburgh. The Mayor would like to add a ten perent tax to each and every alcoholic beverage served.

When I talked about it with the owner of the local watering hole I frequent, he laughed and said with more than a little sarcasm, "Good! I'll pay the city b@st@rds a third and keep the rest for me!"

Now since his bar is located at the intersetion of Pittsburgh and two independent suburbs, he WILL lose customers. But he figures he'll make it up with the money he skims from the new tax.

prisoner6

[Feiny]

You think YOU have it bad??? Try California...we are facing about 10 billion in new taxes thanks to Gray Davis and his out of control spending. He actually said, It's not a spending problem, it's a revenue problem".

[Nuke'm Glowing]

I guess you can not take my entire post in it's context. You were the one that made the statement that it's "unfair" to the brick and mortar stores. No one, as another poster stated, prevents the "brick and mortar" businesses from participating in the net explosion. You assume I don't do research. You are very wrong. My segment of the market was traditionally served by the old mom and pop storefronts which plodded along with a less than 10% annual growth rate in my region. Instead of having a "local" business, I now own a statewide business which enables me to increase the buying power and translate that into higher profits. If you are moronic enough to think that taxation policies will create "fairness" (your words not mine) then you obviously must live in one of the liberal fantasy lands that believe in the power of the government to encourage social change.

As a businessman I pay a large number of taxes as does anyone else who participates on the internet. The introduction of state to state sales taxes will discourage the growth of this market segment. Are you really foolish enough to believe that the raw materials were not taxed before they were molded into a final product? Are you really foolish enough to believe I do not pay a substantial income, property and payroll tax for my business? It's the alleged "conservatives" who encourage higher taxation that proves that the so-called Republican party still does not have a true soul in every aspect. Anyone who is in favor of this tax is not a businessman and does not understand how our "economy" works on a larger scale. The more taxation you introduce on business, the higher our prices go. I will not pay for this sales tax, the customers will. And if you think taxation is such a great thing, then explain why the "brick and mortar" businesses are fleeing this country in droves? The Bermuda basing of corporations is to prevent these companies from beign raped any further by the federal government. Until you own a business or create one for that matter, your opinion on taxation is somewhat worthless.

[Always Right]

He's got a point about downloading music, though I must admit for me personally, it has resulted, I know, in me buying more music than I had before.

I would bet you are in the minority. The music collection of most kids these days consist mainly of MP3s.

[Nuke'm Glowing]

" In 2001, the Bush administration and a Republican Congress reduced income tax rates. At the same time, they created a plan to eliminate the death tax altogether."

BFD. That doesn't do squat for my business which is at the highest tax rate. It's great if you are a middle class taxpayer, but for business it's moot. Your point is well taken but I won't believe it until I see it permanently enacted.

" Also, the point needs to be made to sales tax advocates that this plan is essentially a national sales tax. The fears of sales tax opponents have come to pass -- a national sales tax without the repeal of the income tax. The pro-sales-tax crowd never fully thought through the economic consequences of their tax. Neither did they consider the practical consequences we see in this article. In short, sales tax advocates don't think."

Agreed. I am a proponent of a national sales tax but ONLY after a total repeal of the income tax. I knew that once the government figured out a way to introduce this, that the consumer would pay the ultimate price. Since this will be a state by state plan initially, the customers in those states will be the first to feel the effects as I am sure many businesses who are too small to add the overhead will simply refuse to sell to people in those states. As the tax becomes national, it will be what killed the goose that laid the golden egg. So much for the economic recovery once this becomes national. These idiots just have no idea how much damage they can really do.

[RightOnline]

Shoot.........NC has been doing this for some time now. However, the way it's supposed to work: If you buy something online from a company that has a presence of some kind in YOUR state, then they are supposed to collect sales taxes for your state. If they have no presence in your state (no stores, offices, etc.), then they don't have to collect.

[RightOnline]

Agreed........but I supposed the logic is this: If you walked into one of their stores up the street and purchased the same item, you'd pay State sales tax. They figure this is the same thing. If they don't have a store in your state, then you wouldn't be buying it from them (if the Internet didn't exist), therefore, they don't expect sales tax to be collected.

..........or something like that...........

[calenel]

"Rush that he charges for his Internet radio"

I have never paid a dime to listen to Rush online. I listen to him most days at work.

[Nuke'm Glowing]

"I guess they just dont like being able to control the internet"

That statement sums it all up. They are not going to be happy until they figure out a way to tax email transactions also. This is the beginning of the end of the internet boom. There will still be substantial commerce conducted on the net, but the concept that eBay introduced will soon go away. And can you imagine how much more expensive the B2B sites are going to become. The administrative nightmare to pay each state it's allocation of sales tax is terrifying. Once that's started, it's only a matter of time before the municipalities who charge additional sales taxes join in.