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Peggy Noonan: Them (smokers)
Opinion Journal ^ | 11/16/2002 | Peggy Noonan

Posted on 11/14/2002 9:06:16 PM PST by Pokey78

Edited on 04/23/2004 12:05:02 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

The one group for whom liberals have no tolerance at all.

There's a lot to think about this week--the rise of Nancy Pelosi, the meaning of the Republican triumph--but my thoughts keep tugging toward a group of people who are abused, ostracized and facing a cold winter. It's not right what we do to them, and we should pay attention.


(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; US: New York
KEYWORDS: peggynoonanlist; pufflist
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1 posted on 11/14/2002 9:06:16 PM PST by Pokey78
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To: Howlin; Miss Marple; summer; mombonn; Sabertooth; beckett; BlueAngel; JohnHuang2; ...
Pinging the Peggy Noonan list.
2 posted on 11/14/2002 9:07:09 PM PST by Pokey78
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To: Pokey78
One of the reasons I look forward to Friday. Peggy in the WSJ.
3 posted on 11/14/2002 9:08:46 PM PST by lds23
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To: Pokey78
Best thing I've read in a LONG time.......puff puff
4 posted on 11/14/2002 9:12:56 PM PST by bonfire
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To: Pokey78
Fine words from a fine lady.
5 posted on 11/14/2002 9:13:52 PM PST by per loin
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To: Pokey78
I'm good for a pack a day. Bloomberg can go eff himself. Smoking as I type.
6 posted on 11/14/2002 9:14:48 PM PST by conservativemusician
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To: Pokey78
I love this woman!
7 posted on 11/14/2002 9:20:13 PM PST by abner
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To: Pokey78
One of these days, they are going to have all of us smokers cornered, then they will come and kill us.

And it will be easy, because none of us can run.
8 posted on 11/14/2002 9:23:53 PM PST by Lokibob
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To: Pokey78
It's the body think. Wise people care about the body and the spirit. Democrats only care about the body. Look at their politics and you'll see it reflected in all their major legislation. Look at their superficial values, and their emphasis on "looking good" rather than being good. Yes, they'll feed the homeless and encourage dependency and turn a marginal person into an animal, but the body will be fed. Protection of the body is their only morality. If that's possible...

Why do liberals punish smokers? Could we discuss this? Is it that it makes them feel clean? Some parts of our culture in which liberals largely call the shots--Hollywood, for instance--are fairly low and degraded. Maybe liberals can't face this, and make themselves feel clean if they ban unclean air? Or maybe banning smokers makes them feel safe, like they'll never die.

Maybe it makes them feel in control. Maybe it makes them feel superior.

9 posted on 11/14/2002 9:28:43 PM PST by GOPJ
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To: MadIvan; jla; Landru; Mudboy Slim
I love this!!!
Tell me both of you (privately) that this is not my destiny to write aame, in the same way?

J????
10 posted on 11/14/2002 9:31:49 PM PST by Happygal
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To: Pokey78
Great article as usual from Peggy Noonan I really enjoy her writing.

puff puff
11 posted on 11/14/2002 9:35:47 PM PST by Irish Eyes
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To: Pokey78
At first I thought she was continuing to lose her mind -- then I realized this one's just slow to pick up speed. But, right she is.
12 posted on 11/14/2002 9:36:06 PM PST by lainie
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To: Pokey78
Fantastic column --- I loathe these smoking ordinances and just voted against one here in Florida (it passed anyway). Like Peggy, I don't smoke, but treating smokers --- free agents in a free(?) country who choose to smoke --- like lepers offends me, as does getting sold a bill of goods about the supposed dangers of second hand smoke.
13 posted on 11/14/2002 9:36:59 PM PST by beckett
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To: Pokey78; *puff_list; SheLion; Max McGarrity; Just another Joe
Pinging the Smokers!!!!!!
Any ping lists you got - this is a keeper!!!!!!
And on that note I'm going nighty nite!!!!!!!!!
14 posted on 11/14/2002 9:41:48 PM PST by Gabz
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To: Pokey78
When I saw the title of this article, "THEM (SMOKERS)", I didn't want to read this. I stopped reading articles on smoking long ago because they were always full of lies and always sneeringly superior.

But I am a Peggy fan and I felt I owed her something for for all her great writings I have enjoyed over the years. So I took the plunge and began to read. I should have known that she would write with wit, common sense, understanding and, as much as I hate to say it, compassion.

I didn't have enough faith in Peggy and, again, I was wrong. Thanks, Pokey.

P.S. It will be a snowy day in hell when they let the smokers come in from the cold. They have won.

15 posted on 11/14/2002 9:43:51 PM PST by wife-mom
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To: Gabz
Chain-Smoking ping and loving it!
16 posted on 11/14/2002 9:44:33 PM PST by sonofatpatcher2
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To: Pokey78
Excellent commentary--thanks for the post.
17 posted on 11/14/2002 9:46:07 PM PST by NautiNurse
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To: Gabz
I made up the part about how they're disproportionately Catholic but I bet it's true and in any case why shouldn't I assert phony facts? The other side does.

I used to like Peggy. Now I think I adore her.

18 posted on 11/14/2002 9:50:05 PM PST by Dianna
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To: Pokey78
I think PN is way cool. Having said that.... no. Smokers are not Indian untouchable caste-victims. They aren't even unclean-while-menstruating weird African tribe women. This isn't something they are born into, inescapable as class or gender. They are people whose habit has been outvoted and now they have to do it outside. Suck it up or quit. Don't try to turn them into baby seals being clubbed to death by heartless hunters. Come on now.
19 posted on 11/14/2002 9:52:36 PM PST by A_perfect_lady
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To: Pokey78
My father died from smoking. I truly believe the tobacco makers stand a very good chance of roasting in hell once they leave this earth.

And yet I absolutely agree with this lovely essay. I don't mind if people smoke around me; perhaps due to memories of dear old dad, I like the smell of it. And I'm angered sometimes when I see my colleagues out on the streets, forced into the cold to indulge their habit. I think it's outrageous that so many Americans sit still for this narrow-minded intrusion into the lives of others.
20 posted on 11/14/2002 9:56:03 PM PST by ArcLight
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To: Pokey78
Damn. I didn't realize Peggy was so hip. But Peggy - you know - and I know, as ex-smokers - that we either facilitated or silently acceded to all these condemnations and obstacles- as a mechanism for us to quit. And once a person does quit - the condemnations serve as reinforcement.

Like when you talk to a smoker and say " Holy s**ttaki, you're paying $7.50 a pack...why don't you quit?". And they say "Yeah, well I should....y'know...and when they raise it to $10 bucks a pack...then I'll quit....hope they do it soon."

21 posted on 11/14/2002 9:56:11 PM PST by ctonious
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To: Pokey78
Peggy's great.
22 posted on 11/14/2002 10:08:53 PM PST by BelieveNFreedom
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To: Pokey78
Nice post Pokey. I don't smoke cigarettes anymore myself and really think it smells bad when others do. But the smell of the smoking is not nearly as bad as the fascist stench of the smoking Nazi's.
23 posted on 11/14/2002 10:12:53 PM PST by carpio
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To: carpio
PING
24 posted on 11/14/2002 10:18:45 PM PST by AFPhys
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To: Pokey78
I think I'm in love...
25 posted on 11/14/2002 10:19:57 PM PST by Max McGarrity
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To: Pokey78
It was damn smokers that caused the Hindenburg disaster. If we don't stop them, they'll kill us all.

200 Empty cigarette tubes $2.50
6 ounce can of tobacco $8.99
= 1 Carton $11.50

Make your own. Screw the tobacco settlement lawyers and slowly commit sucide on the cheap. It takes perhaps 5 seconds to roll one with the appropriate little blue plastic cigarette making device (made in Germany).

And you can custom blend your tobacco, as well as go for the pure tobacco 'additive-free' stuff that is MUCH healthier, and downright tasty.

26 posted on 11/14/2002 10:21:19 PM PST by XLurk
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To: Pokey78
Way to go Peggy! Smoke'em if you got'em!! She also right that most of them do the things they do, not so much out of concern for the well-being of the individual or group that they direct their so called concern at, but for the feeling they get when they feed their intellectual superior, god-like complex.

Yes they must provide for and make decisions for all those poor minorities, uneducated whites, those common people, who if left without the instruction and guidance of such wonderfully intelligent and beautiful people as themselves, would soon overpopulate the planet and destroy themselves.

27 posted on 11/14/2002 10:22:54 PM PST by mississippi red-neck
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To: Pokey78
Peggy, It's not just liberals. There are many conservative Nico Nazis out there too.. It's a PC thing, and just like everything else PC it has nothing to do with the smoke.. It's politically incorrect to smoke. People have been brainwashed..
28 posted on 11/14/2002 10:32:34 PM PST by Texas Mom
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To: A_perfect_lady
"They are people whose habit has been outvoted and now they have to do it outside."

Screen name aside, have you no habits that others might find offensive?

29 posted on 11/14/2002 10:34:46 PM PST by okie01
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To: Lokibob
But many of us, especially in 'flyover country', can shoot VERY accurately.
30 posted on 11/14/2002 10:36:32 PM PST by SAJ
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To: okie01
Screen name aside, have you no habits that others might find offensive?

Well, I collect so many cats that the allergic have been known to sneeze when my car pulls into the parking lot... why?

31 posted on 11/14/2002 10:39:25 PM PST by A_perfect_lady
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To: Texas Mom
Ping for the wonderful Peg!
32 posted on 11/14/2002 10:40:10 PM PST by lainde
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To: lds23
Peggy - another beautiful, articulate, feminine woman. Sigh. We have all the smart and beautiful women. They have Ms. Bella Pelosi, et al.

Let me get this straight. Smoking cigarettes is bad. But medical marijuana is good.
33 posted on 11/14/2002 10:43:06 PM PST by Chemnitz
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To: Pokey78
Thanks for the ping, my friend =^)
34 posted on 11/14/2002 10:49:13 PM PST by JohnHuang2
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To: ArcLight
I sometimes smoke a pipe, usually in winter around Christmas time.
Luckily, I have my own work area, and am allowed to smoke there.

The boss brought a customer by, showing off the shop and our capabilities, and she smelled the smoke as soon as they entered.
She exclaimed, " You're smoking a PIPE! "
( The boss got this look, like he'd just lost a customer, his face starting to screw up like a lemon. )

Then she continued, " My grandfather used to smoke a pipe. We used to go there every year at Christmas time. I haven't thought of that for years. "
Then she got all misty - eyed for a minute, and I introduced myself, shook her hand, showed her around.
She spent more time in my smoky little shop than she did in the entire rest of the building, and thanked me most graciously when she left.
It was unsaid, but part of the thanks was for bringing back a memory.

My boss just looked relieved.

35 posted on 11/14/2002 10:49:39 PM PST by Drammach
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To: Pokey78; xm177e2; mercy; Wait4Truth; hole_n_one; GretchenEE; Clinton's a rapist; buffyt; ...

Peggy Noonan MEGA PING!!


36 posted on 11/14/2002 10:50:58 PM PST by JohnHuang2
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To: Texas Mom
"It's politically incorrect to smoke."

There is only one side of the political spectrum that have made certain things 'politically incorrect' and it AIN'T the conservatives!

37 posted on 11/14/2002 10:57:29 PM PST by A Citizen Reporter
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To: A_perfect_lady
"Well, I collect so many cats that the allergic have been known to sneeze when my car pulls into the parking lot... why?"

Suppose cat-owners were "out-voted", as you put it.

And you had to dispose of them. Or you couldn't enter a building with the scent of cat on you. Because somebody might be "offended".

After tobacco, what's next? Felines?

Personally, I don't smoke. But I find the intolerance regarding smokers...intolerant.

38 posted on 11/14/2002 11:03:08 PM PST by okie01
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To: abner
Peggy, Marry me???
39 posted on 11/14/2002 11:09:26 PM PST by gortklattu
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To: Pokey78
Peggy is wrong: Their right to smoke ends at my nostrils. I cannot set off a stink bomb in a theatre because I say I like the odor. Moma's rights to abort morally ends where the fetus begins.
40 posted on 11/14/2002 11:32:01 PM PST by nathanbedford
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To: A_perfect_lady
They are people whose habit has been outvoted and now they have to do it outside.

So if someone can get enough people to vote that people shouldn't be allowed to spend their time on online boards like FR, tough noogies for us, cause "we've been outvoted"?

41 posted on 11/14/2002 11:42:37 PM PST by Timesink
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To: Dianna
I like Peggy too. But smoker's rights end where my lungs begin.
42 posted on 11/14/2002 11:44:11 PM PST by onedoug
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To: nathanbedford
"Moma's rights to abort morally ends where the fetus begins."

'Wish I'd read just that further along 'fore I'd posted.

43 posted on 11/14/2002 11:47:34 PM PST by onedoug
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To: onedoug
You didn't see it?
44 posted on 11/15/2002 12:17:05 AM PST by nathanbedford
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To: Pokey78
It's about to get worse here in San Francisco. The guys who are starting a campaign to get cigarettes out of pharmacies have just bought a bunch of bus shelter ads.

I don't smoke, never have tried, and also have asthma. I like the fact that I don't have to worry about second-hand smoke in the office or restaurants or in supermarkets, as I did in my youth. However, I also firmly believe that enough is enough.

45 posted on 11/15/2002 12:32:34 AM PST by L.N. Smithee
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To: nathanbedford
>>Peggy is wrong: Their right to smoke ends at my nostrils.

I agree. I can't believe it took forty posts before someone brought this up. I hate going to a bar/club (which, being stodgy fuddie-duddies, we rarely do) and coming home and smelling smoke in my clothes. Why should someone be allowed to do this to me? Is it OK if I pee on your leg? OK, so in the minds of many posting above, gas-phase nasties are OK to inflict on others, but liquid-phase nasties are not?

That said, I am very much against government prohibiting private businesses from allowing smoking on their premesis.
46 posted on 11/15/2002 2:06:19 AM PST by FreedomPoster
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To: Pokey78
Thanks for the Peggy ping
47 posted on 11/15/2002 3:55:11 AM PST by GOPJ
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To: FreedomPoster
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/789457/posts?page=28

Just look at how I was jumped on because I dared state my opinion on smoking and Peggy's article.
48 posted on 11/15/2002 4:07:28 AM PST by Skywalk
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To: Skywalk; *puff_list
I followed you over from the other thread to make sure you did not escape the foul stench of my filthy habit. :o)

...and to ping the puff_list, of course.
49 posted on 11/15/2002 4:30:49 AM PST by Grit
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To: Happygal
"Tell me both of you (privately) that this is not my destiny to write aame, in the same way?"

I certainly hope not.
The old bag has her way.
Now you find your own way; a way of a young Lady with a full life ahead of her & one without the baggage *this* one carries, y'hear?

Besides, tell me you didn't find it somewhat odd *Peggy* went to such great lengths to articulate -- emphisize -- how smokers are, "old fashioned, having made old fashioned deals"?

Don'tcha think ol' *Peggy* neglected to mention the flip-side to this?
Like how these old fashioned smokers are (increasingly) hiring old fashioned sheisters to sue the crap outa the old fashioned tobacco companies?
Yea, & following their lifetime of old fashioned smoking which was of course, a matter of their own old fashioned free choice??

No.
If you're intent on writing for a living, Angel?
Then, tell the complete story.

...the whole, bloody, old fashioned story, eh?

50 posted on 11/15/2002 4:31:24 AM PST by Landru
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