BATF Moves to Block Importation of 'Obsolete' US Military Guns

The New York Times Company | November 16, 2002 | JEFF GERTH and RICHARD W. STEVENSON

[dljordan]

Ok, here's what we do. We set up an import company in Mexico (this will cost a little for bribe's and stuff) we buy all the surplus guns we can get, put them in a truck and drive them over the border. They only check one in fifteen.

[kitchen]

Expand on the M-14 rumor, please.

[chuknospam]

bang!

[RLK]

Remember how Reagan wanted to fold BATF into the Secret Service? The Homeland Security bill which passed the House (HR 5710) takes BATF away from Treasury and brings it under the Justice Dept.

----------------------

I want to see if folded into the toilet. As far as the Justice Department, where was the justice department ar Waco? What we have is rogue bureasus and rogeue federal agents being shifted around with little serious change. The BATF was originally designed to be concerned with booze. Leave the F off of it.

[archy]

Has anyone ever even heard of a Garand made full-auto?

Sure have. In fact, one of the trigger mechanisms I designed for a Navy JSSAP small arms program when I worked at the Navy's Fleet Logistics Supply Depot at Crane was based on a Garand's turnbolt locking system, though equally applicable to any turnbolt-locked small arm, to include the M1 carbine, Ruger mini-14 or Kalishnikov, though the AK family is full-auto anyway. But I managed to combine the sear trip and disconnector into a single component, interesting in a design that was meant to be as simple and basic as possible, for production from stamped stainless steel. We had plenty of M1 and Mk2 Mod 1 7,62 NATO converted Garands with which to work, and literally tons of component parts, though there's nothing Garand or caliber specific about the idea I came up with.

The serious practical limitation in converting a Garand to full-auto is the resultant harmonic vibrations from the Garand's critical operating rod, lengthier than that of most semi-auto designs. That was also noted on the experimental full and selective versions developed through WWII and beyond, the T5E1 and others, which eventually became the T44/M14 rifle design- with a MUCH shorter op rod.

[gnarledmaw]

After a full day of wandering the web researching I came up with this new and improved version of what I heard:

Someone (nobody knows who)made a claim that CMP may (but no ones sure) at some point in the future (but nobody knows when)start a M-14 distribution program (how...bid?,open sales?, no one knows).

Everyone is reluctant to give any info on where they heard it, through secret top-level government channels Im sure.

FWIW, Archy was good enough to point me to Freds M-14 Stocks as a starting point. See item #3.

[archy]

Expand on the M14 rumor, please.

Not just a rumor, there's a concerted effort to get the few [somewhere around a hundred thousand remaining of nearly a million made] M14 rifles [probably in the military *M14M* configuration] still in the military inventory released for CMP sales to US Citizen civilian riflemen and target shooters.

Details *here* [see paragraf #3] and *here*

-archy-/-

[archy]

Ya beat me to the draw, podner. But I got two shots off!

Looks like we were both shootin' at pretty much the same target though!

-archy-/-

[lawdog]

Exactlty.

[lawdog]

OOPS... Exactly.

[archy]

Everyone is reluctant to give any info on where they heard it, through secret top-level government channels, I'm sure.

I don't know if a private election victory celebration dinner with a U.S. Congressman counts as *top-level* but he asked me to keep his name confidential until he can either begin drafting the legislation or work with another doing so. It may even become a bi-partisan effort.

And he's on the House Armed Services Committee.... But I am NOT giving out the name of the secret restaurant location where we ate. The service was quite good, the prices reasonable and the food excellant, and I'm not about to see that place get overrun.

-archy-/-

[SLB]

There is an estate auction here in three weeks with a Garand listed. Guess I need to go see if Mrs Santa Claus will go with me and take her checkbook along.

[dd5339]

Ping!

Semper Fi

[Dead Dog]

Cool! To heck with the Carbines, bring on the Garand and M1911!

[Dan from Michigan]

Moreover, the letter warned, the carbine and Garand can fire bullets capable of piercing the soft body armor worn by police officers

I know you covered it, but...

IT'S AN F'ING .30-06 - A DEER HUNTING ROUND.

[from occupied ga]

And further proof the FBI needs to take over gun law enforcement policy, and put the BATF back to its original role of REVENUE COLLECTION

Don't think that the FBI would be any different than the ATF when it comes to screwing gun owners. They are just as virulent anti-gun fascists as the ATF (remember who did the final burning at Waco)

[gnarledmaw]

Well, thats top enough for me. Thanks.

[tracer]

Will the ban include the millions of French rifles already available in near-mint-condition with only minor scratches on stocks??

[Joe Brower]

Good on yer, SLB! Get that Garand!

Last Christmas, my brother, who's been shooting as long as I have (since we were teens), ran a bunch of rounds through the M1 I bought through the CMP, and he said he'd never had a favorite rifle -- until now.

He's been wanting to buy one, but hasn't been able to scratch up the cash. Imagine his surprise when I give him one this Christmas!

[No.6]

Preaching to the choir here, RLK. But, an ATF under the Justice Dept is closer to being disbanded that one which is 'enforcing' for Treasury.

All an Attorney General would need to do is find that ATF is redundant of existing Justice functions and poof.