BATF Moves to Block Importation of 'Obsolete' US Military Guns

The New York Times Company | November 16, 2002 | JEFF GERTH and RICHARD W. STEVENSON

[kidao35]

November 16, 2002 Agency Fighting Proposal to Import Old Weapons By JEFF GERTH and RICHARD W. STEVENSON

WASHINGTON, Nov. 14 - The federal gun control bureau is strongly opposing a proposal to let gun sellers and owners import as many as two million World War II era infantry weapons that were made in the United States and exported to the world's armies decades ago.

The objections from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms come as the State Department is considering the proposal, which is being pressed by a trade association that lobbies for gun importers. The bureau says the idea, which would lift a 50-year-old ban, would flood the market with outdated but deadly weapons that could fall into the hands of criminals and would be hard to regulate.

A letter from the firearms bureau, part of the Treasury Department, warned that the change would prevent it from stopping the criminal use of "particularly dangerous" old guns: pistols that are readily concealed and carbines and Garand rifles, which can be easily converted into automatic weapons. Moreover, the letter warned, the carbine and Garand can fire bullets capable of piercing the soft body armor worn by police officers.

The weapons, exported to Asia, South America and countries elsewhere and still available around the world, have generally not been allowed back into the United States, though there is a legal exception that permits the import of equipment classified as "curio or relics."

The State Department, which by law regulates trade in United States defense equipment, is weighing a proposal made last year by the Firearms Importers' Roundtable Trade Group, which is led by a top dealer in and collector of machine-gun parts and accessories. The group, set up in the wake of import restrictions by the Clinton administration, argues that the imports would be used by collectors, in shooting competitions or for other legitimate purposes.

A briefing paper prepared by the firearm importers says the guns "are not crime guns" or "weapons of choice among criminals," an argument based on the group's analysis of crime reports by the firearms bureau.

But the bureau warned that the change could allow as many as two million weapons, many of them able to shoot the deadlier kinds of bullets, to enter the private commercial market legally for the first time. The bureau cited a recent report of its own that found that 7,243 American-made weapons intended for military use had been used in crimes, even though it was unlawful to re-import most if not all of them.

John P. Malone, the assistant director for firearms and explosives at the bureau, cited this statistic two months ago when he wrote the State Department to oppose the proposal.

A department spokesman declined to discuss the proposal, saying it was still under review.

"It is a matter of interagency discussion, and it would be inappropriate to comment," the spokesman said on the condition of anonymity.

At issue are rifles and handguns sold to United States allies more than 50 years ago. The potential universe, a 1998 federal report says, includes more than 950,000 Garand rifles, more than 1.2 million M-1 carbines and nearly 300,000 M-1911 pistols. A firearms expert who supports the policy change estimates the market at 1.5 million, but says many of them may not be capable of being fired.

It is not known how many of the weapons still work. The firearms trade group says "there will not be millions of guns flooding the marketplace" because "market forces will control what is imported" and there would be "unusually lengthy" reviews by the firearms bureau and the State Department. The group also says buyers would be subject to the "same requirements that apply when purchasing other firearms," like background checks.

But Mr. Malone, in his letter to the State Department, said the group's proposal "would open the United States commercial market to potentially 2.5 million new weapons" which "A.T.F. generally has no authority to control."

Mr. Malone's letter was provided by an official opposed to the policy change.

The gun trade group was set up in 1994 after the Clinton administration imposed an embargo on the importation of firearms and ammunition from China. The group's goal, according to reports in the specialized gun trade press, is to open United States gun markets and provide as many choices as possible. Commercial manufacturers make firearms similar to the old military models.

The trade group's president is Charles Steen. A profile of Mr. Steen's company, Sarco Inc., in the magazine Small Arms Review, says the business, which is based in Stirling, N.J., and licensed by the firearms bureau, focuses on the accumulation or collection of surplus military material. The profile describes Sarco as "the leader in machine-gun parts and accessories" and "arguably the largest dealer in surplus war material in the country."

Sarco's Web site draws attention to a new feature: "Machine Gun Dave's Machine Gun Page," where the top item is a 1928 Colt commercial water-cooled tripod listed for $1,250.

On June 27, 2001, Mr. Steen's group petitioned the State Department to "lift the import restrictions historically imposed on `obsolete and historic U.S. military small arms, ammunition, and demilitarized equipment,' " according to Mr. Malone's letter.

The trade group's lawyer is Mark Barnes, a leading firearms lobbyist in Washington. Mr. Barnes provided a copy of the trade group's background paper - which echoes its 2001 proposal - but Mr. Steen declined to be interviewed for this article.

After the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, the proposal sat idle, but more recently the trade group has met with State Department officials, including once late last summer, a person who attended said.

On Sept. 10, Mr. Malone wrote to Lincoln P. Bloomfield Jr., the assistant secretary of state for political-military affairs, saying that the proposal would "undo over 50 years of established policy governing the transfer and import of these weapons."

Surplus military firearms have been banned from import under federal gun control laws. But in 1984, the Gun Control Act was amended to create an exception: firearms classified as "curio or relics," which include weapons and ammunition more than 50 years old.

Since 1949 there have been strict limits on the ability of foreign governments to distribute equipment they receive under United States military assistance programs. In 1987, the State Department restated its general ban on the initial retransfer of United States military weapons, but created an exception.

Foreign governments could sell to private entities if they could show "significant public interest," including guarantees that the equipment would be used for its intended purpose, such as being placed on "static display in a museum and demilitarized," Mr. Malone's letter said.

Mr. Steen's group maintains that the State Department has interpreted the law too narrowly and should approve as "the rule, rather than the exception," imports of United States military equipment.

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[dljordan]

Ok, here's what we do. We set up an import company in Mexico (this will cost a little for bribe's and stuff) we buy all the surplus guns we can get, put them in a truck and drive them over the border. They only check one in fifteen.

[kitchen]

Expand on the M-14 rumor, please.

[chuknospam]

bang!

[RLK]

Remember how Reagan wanted to fold BATF into the Secret Service? The Homeland Security bill which passed the House (HR 5710) takes BATF away from Treasury and brings it under the Justice Dept.

----------------------

I want to see if folded into the toilet. As far as the Justice Department, where was the justice department ar Waco? What we have is rogue bureasus and rogeue federal agents being shifted around with little serious change. The BATF was originally designed to be concerned with booze. Leave the F off of it.

[archy]

Has anyone ever even heard of a Garand made full-auto?

Sure have. In fact, one of the trigger mechanisms I designed for a Navy JSSAP small arms program when I worked at the Navy's Fleet Logistics Supply Depot at Crane was based on a Garand's turnbolt locking system, though equally applicable to any turnbolt-locked small arm, to include the M1 carbine, Ruger mini-14 or Kalishnikov, though the AK family is full-auto anyway. But I managed to combine the sear trip and disconnector into a single component, interesting in a design that was meant to be as simple and basic as possible, for production from stamped stainless steel. We had plenty of M1 and Mk2 Mod 1 7,62 NATO converted Garands with which to work, and literally tons of component parts, though there's nothing Garand or caliber specific about the idea I came up with.

The serious practical limitation in converting a Garand to full-auto is the resultant harmonic vibrations from the Garand's critical operating rod, lengthier than that of most semi-auto designs. That was also noted on the experimental full and selective versions developed through WWII and beyond, the T5E1 and others, which eventually became the T44/M14 rifle design- with a MUCH shorter op rod.

[gnarledmaw]

After a full day of wandering the web researching I came up with this new and improved version of what I heard:

Someone (nobody knows who)made a claim that CMP may (but no ones sure) at some point in the future (but nobody knows when)start a M-14 distribution program (how...bid?,open sales?, no one knows).

Everyone is reluctant to give any info on where they heard it, through secret top-level government channels Im sure.

FWIW, Archy was good enough to point me to Freds M-14 Stocks as a starting point. See item #3.

[archy]

Expand on the M14 rumor, please.

Not just a rumor, there's a concerted effort to get the few [somewhere around a hundred thousand remaining of nearly a million made] M14 rifles [probably in the military *M14M* configuration] still in the military inventory released for CMP sales to US Citizen civilian riflemen and target shooters.

Details *here* [see paragraf #3] and *here*

-archy-/-

[archy]

Ya beat me to the draw, podner. But I got two shots off!

Looks like we were both shootin' at pretty much the same target though!

-archy-/-

[lawdog]

Exactlty.

[lawdog]

OOPS... Exactly.

[archy]

Everyone is reluctant to give any info on where they heard it, through secret top-level government channels, I'm sure.

I don't know if a private election victory celebration dinner with a U.S. Congressman counts as *top-level* but he asked me to keep his name confidential until he can either begin drafting the legislation or work with another doing so. It may even become a bi-partisan effort.

And he's on the House Armed Services Committee.... But I am NOT giving out the name of the secret restaurant location where we ate. The service was quite good, the prices reasonable and the food excellant, and I'm not about to see that place get overrun.

-archy-/-

[SLB]

There is an estate auction here in three weeks with a Garand listed. Guess I need to go see if Mrs Santa Claus will go with me and take her checkbook along.

[dd5339]

Ping!

Semper Fi

[Dead Dog]

Cool! To heck with the Carbines, bring on the Garand and M1911!

[Dan from Michigan]

Moreover, the letter warned, the carbine and Garand can fire bullets capable of piercing the soft body armor worn by police officers

I know you covered it, but...

IT'S AN F'ING .30-06 - A DEER HUNTING ROUND.

[from occupied ga]

And further proof the FBI needs to take over gun law enforcement policy, and put the BATF back to its original role of REVENUE COLLECTION

Don't think that the FBI would be any different than the ATF when it comes to screwing gun owners. They are just as virulent anti-gun fascists as the ATF (remember who did the final burning at Waco)

[gnarledmaw]

Well, thats top enough for me. Thanks.

[tracer]

Will the ban include the millions of French rifles already available in near-mint-condition with only minor scratches on stocks??

[Joe Brower]

Good on yer, SLB! Get that Garand!

Last Christmas, my brother, who's been shooting as long as I have (since we were teens), ran a bunch of rounds through the M1 I bought through the CMP, and he said he'd never had a favorite rifle -- until now.

He's been wanting to buy one, but hasn't been able to scratch up the cash. Imagine his surprise when I give him one this Christmas!

[No.6]

Preaching to the choir here, RLK. But, an ATF under the Justice Dept is closer to being disbanded that one which is 'enforcing' for Treasury.

All an Attorney General would need to do is find that ATF is redundant of existing Justice functions and poof.