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Libertarianism III: It's All About Me and My Needs
Sand in the Gears ^ | 11/15/02 | Tony Woodlief

Posted on 11/17/2002 2:15:27 PM PST by hscott

In the last essay I argued that libertarians have the wrong approach to advancing their cause. I could have quoted libertarian godfather Murray Rothbard: "While Marxists devote about 90 percent of their energies to thinking about strategy and only 10 percent to their basic theories, for libertarians the reverse is true." Rothbard observed that the libertarian strategy amounts to an intellectually satisfying but strategically impotent method of talking at people. "Most classical liberal or laissez-faire activists have adopted, perhaps without much thoughtful consideration, a simple strategy that we may call 'educationism.' Roughly: We have arrived at the truth, but most people are still deluded believers in error; therefore, we must educate these people -- via lectures, discussions, books, pamphlets, newspapers, or whatever -- until they become converted to the correct point of view."

Libertarians not only suffer from a lack of strategy for winning, they have little to offer in the way of maintaining authority should they some day emerge victorious. This is important to consider because American liberty (and I am largely confining this to be an American question, though many of my comments apply to libertarians in other countries) has enemies both internal and external.

Start with external enemies -- the host of armed authoritarian states that would relish an opportunity to seize American wealth and liberty. There is no gentle way of saying this: libertarians sound like absolute fools when they talk about foreign policy. I have heard libertarian thinkers much smarter than me give brilliant, sophisticated, world-wise discourses on libertarian domestic policy, only to sound like naive sophomores when the talk turns to foreign affairs.

Libertarians like to pretend, for example, that the U.S. could have avoided World War II without consequence for liberty. At best they argue from historical accident rather than principal -- the claim that Hitler would have lost by virtue of his failure in Russia, for example, or that Britain could have survived without the American Lend-Lease program.

Likewise comes the libertarian claim that American adventures in the Cold War were misguided. In this they display an ugly penchant for concerning themselves with the liberties of white Americans, which explains the view of many that the U.S. Civil War represents the earliest great infringement on liberty (as if the liberty of slaves doesn't count in the balance).

These arguments against foreign intervention derive from the libertarian principle that coercion is wrong, which is really no fixed principle at all, because nearly all libertarians admit that a military financed through taxation is a necessity for the protection of liberty. Somewhere in their calculus, however, they conclude that this coercion shouldn't extend to financing the liberation of non-Americans. Perhaps this is principled, but it is certainly not the only viable alternative for a true lover of liberty. To tell people languishing in states like China and the former Soviet bloc that our commitment to liberty prevents us from opposing their masters is the height of churlishness and foolishness.

Perhaps the worst is the libertarian position on Israel, which amounts to a replay of Joe Kennedy's see-no-evil, hear-no-evil approach to Hitler in the 1930's. Sure, without American support every man, woman, and child among the Jews might have their throats slit by Muslim thugs, but it's not like they got that country fairly in the first place, and really, it's none of our business. That's not a caricature, by the way. At an event in Washington I heard a prominent libertarian argue that we shouldn't support Israel because what happens to them is their problem, not ours. And libertarians wonder why nobody takes their views on foreign policy seriously.

The libertarian response to this critique is to point out examples of failed U.S. intervention. Yes, the CIA sowed seeds of anti-Americanism in Iran by supporting the Shah. Admitted, we supported a tyrant in Haiti. True, we armed the mujahaddin in Afghanistan. But we also dealt the death blows to Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany, and accelerated the self-destruction of the Soviet Union while controlling its expansion. These are not trivial events in the history of liberty. Libertarian academics have developed a cottage industry, however, to produce counterfactual histories which amount to claiming that all of the good things would have happened anyway without American intervention, and probably would have happened faster.

Of course one can just as easily tell a story in which American isolationism leads to the emergence of totalitarian states that divide the rest of the world, restrict trade, and make all of us worse off. The point is that in the area of foreign policy libertarians are most likely to argue from principle, yet this is the area where consequentialism is most required. Nobody cares about principle if it leads to enslavement or death. When libertarians do argue from consequence, they have no experience or expertise to speak from, nor do they associate with people who do. Name the libertarian scholars with serious expertise in foreign or military affairs. Name the libertarian activists with considerable experience in foreign or military affairs. You get the point.

To be taken seriously as a philosophy of governance, libertarianism must grapple with foreign affairs, and with the possible reality that liberty depends on strong military power. Suggest this at a libertarian gathering, however, and you'll hear chuckles of derision. Perhaps they are right. The fact that they chuckle, however, but have yet to answer this question in a convincing manner, is evidence of the libertarian closemindedness on this issue.

But let's assume that most libertarians would support a military large enough to fend off foreign enemies. They would still have to confront the reality that they have no viable model of power maintenance against domestic enemies of liberty. To see what I mean, imagine that libertarians have nominated a slate of charismatic, well-funded, highly networked candidates (indulge me -- it's a Friday) who have won the Presidency and a solid majority of Congress. These revolutionaries proceed to create the libertarian wet dream -- drug legalization, plans for phasing out government schools and Social Security, isolationist foreign policy, no more ATF . . . and did I mention drug legalization?

In this fantasy the economy booms but foreign states are deterred by our minimal armed forces, people are happy, and sales of Atlas Shrugged go through the roof. It is the End of History.

Except, people get older. Memory fades. The Left remains committed to brainwashing children and co-opting public and private organizations. A child overdoses on heroin. Drugs are slowly re-criminalized. Some idiot old babyboomers (sorry for the triple redundancy) starve to death because they could never be bothered to save for old age. Others lose their savings when they invest them all in Bill Clinton Enterprises. Hello Social Security and financial regulation. The schools stay private because the Left realizes how much easier it is to peddle garbage by McDonaldizing it (i.e., by becoming the low-cost provider and pandering to human weakness).

So, in a generation or less, the revolution is slowly dismantled, and libertarians are blamed for the ills of society. They go back to holding their convention in a Motel Six in Las Vegas, and cheering when their candidate for Sonoma County Commissioner comes in a close third in a three-man race.

The Left doesn't face this problem. Deprived of principle, integrity, or honor, they are happy to snip the bottom rungs as they climb the ladder of power. You can already see this in Europe, where EU thugs are slowly transferring decision-making authority from quasi-democratic legislatures to unelected Brussels technocrats. We saw a hint of it in the U.S., when supposed children of the free-thinking sixties proved strikingly willing to use the power of the federal government to punish and stifle opposition.

But libertarians are all about individual liberty. Thus they face a quandary: How to maintain their state once it's built? This question should be especially pressing, insofar as their model implies that government tends to grow and become oppressive.

There appear to be two avenues open: the first is to adopt a variant of the Left's strategy, and eliminate unfavored options for future generations. Libertarians might, for example, replace the Constitution with a mirror document that does not contain any provision for amendment. This would leave the states open to adopt all manner of idiocy, however. Perhaps libertarians at the state level could adopt similarly permanent protections of individual rights as well. Thus libertarians could effectively ban most opposition parties, without suffering the guilt that Third World dictators endure when they do so more directly. I'm not sure if this would be acceptable in the libertarian paradigm. No matter, however, for the point is that they don't discuss it.

The second avenue for maintaining the libertarian state is culture. If children and new citizens are thoroughly educated in logic, economics, and other foundations of libertarian thinking, then perhaps they can be trusted to maintain liberty even in the face of very persuasive demagogues. But then certain topics become central: childrearing, childhood education, individual self-censorship and discipline, community norms, and reciprocal obligations. It would also require a consideration of the place religion plays in all of the aforementioned. Nearly all of these topics, however, are ignored by individualist libertarians, who furthermore routinely deride -- almost as a condition for membership -- those who call for their rigorous pursuit either as policy or personal practice.

Libertarians have less that's interesting to say about childhood education, for example, than does the Democratic Leadership Council. But childhood education is probably the linchpin of the libertarian society. How many libertarians, however, give much thought to where even their own children will go to school? Sure, they want safety and effectiveness, like any other parent, but how many give serious attention to finding or building schools that inculcate in children the ability to think critically, along with a sense of moral responsibility? Precious few.

If libertarians were serious about taking and maintaining power -- truly serious -- then they would drop the caterwauling over drug criminalization and focus every drop of energy on building schools. The latter is hard work, however, and forces consideration of messy things like moral instruction, and self-discipline, and what makes for good parenting. It's far easier to toke up in the discounted hotel room at the Libertarian Party Convention and rail against the DEA. Thus libertarianism remains less a force for change than a tool for self-expression.

This is in part a product of the natural individualistic nature of libertarianism. The solution isn't to eliminate -- or even drastically reduce -- the individualism that underlies libertarian philosophy, but it does require reconciliation with the social nature of human beings. It also requires acceptance of the fact that people are not only communal in nature, but spiritual. I will address this in my next essay.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: ccrm; foreignpolicy; libertarianism
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To: hscott
I've recently had many discussions on Libertarians with Alan Chapman (I'm sure many of you know him). I have come to the conclusion that many Libertarians live in a fantisy world and don't let the real world intrude on them.

For those of you that complain that the view of Libertarians is clouded by the drug issue, the fantisy they seem to live in tends to argue against you.

I support many Libertarian policies. However, as stated their tactics and stratigy is sorely lacking. I view a vote for most Libertarian candidates to be 1/2 of a vote for a Socialist. They seem to have no grasp on reality. This is where the question of their drug use comes in. I am tending to think it is a very valid point.

MARK A SITY
http://www.logic101.net/
41 posted on 11/17/2002 5:10:53 PM PST by logic101.net
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To: Reagan Man
I do not support land grabs by the federal government and neither does President Bush. I strongly support the 2nd Amendment right for Americans to keep and bear arms, and so does President Bush.

Well I'll believe it when I see him do something about the Bill about to be pushed through. He doesn't even mention it.

Its true. Many libertarians favor returning America to the days of 1790, when the vast majority of folks were uneducated, poor and didn't live past 40 years old. I don't support that type of life. While life may not be perfect in the 21st century, its far better then at any time in American history.

I do not care what libertarians favor. I do know most Americans despise freedom, and think it means "freedom from responsibility."

It is not good to measure the results of any political condition, however, at its beginning. Since the conditions, politically, of the late 1790s remained to a large degree into the middle 1800s, look at what had been accomplished in this country under these free times. By 1840 Literacey in all states ranged between 93% and 100%. The first tax funded school opened ten years later. With government now in charge of education, about 40% of blacks and 17% of whites cannot read at all. As for life expectancy, it has been increasing by 1/2 year every 10 years worldwide. Certainly this can be attributed to better diet, medicine, and living conditions, but not to govenment.

When I was a boy we children used to spend hours playing in the woods, or downtown in a major NE city. We were never in any danger. No one in our neighborhood locked their doors. My neighbor worked nights and walked home most summer evening through city streets and dark neighborhoods (no street lights) after midnight. She was never in any danger.

When I was in the fifth grade all the boys were required to have a jacknife for one of our classes. (No boy would have dreamed of going anyplace without his jacknife.) No one ever threatened anyone with a knife (and none of the girls got pregnant.)

You may be too young to know how free we really were, just 40 years ago, and how much more orderly life was.

Hank

42 posted on 11/17/2002 5:13:53 PM PST by Hank Kerchief
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To: Reagan Man
It's just like legalizing drugs. If you don't think drug use would skyrocket with legalization, you're ignorant about what comprises human nature.

How many people do you think really want to take drugs now that do not take them because they are illegal. Is it only because they are illegal that you do not take drugs? Are you better than everyone else?

If you think anyone who wants to take drugs isn't, you are completely ignorant about today's society.

Hank

43 posted on 11/17/2002 5:21:02 PM PST by Hank Kerchief
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To: Reagan Man
"A libertarian is someone who upholds the principles of absolute and unrestricted liberty"

I don't know, I usually consider myself something of a libertarian, yet I don't believe in "absolute and unrestricted liberty." It seems pretty clear that if one person has absolute and unrestricted liberty, he cannot avoid being able to encroach on someone else's absolute and unrestricted liberty.

F.A. Hayek, who is one of my inspirations, rejected, after consideration, the label of "libertarian." I'll have to look up why, later.

44 posted on 11/17/2002 5:57:48 PM PST by Sam Cree
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To: elbucko
....maintaining the power of the libertarian state....

Isn't that an oxymoron?

Yes, but it's the author's oxymoron. Maybe he's using "state" to mean condition or situation, though.

45 posted on 11/17/2002 5:59:09 PM PST by x
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To: Sam Cree
It seems pretty clear that if one person has absolute and unrestricted liberty, he cannot avoid being able to encroach on someone else's absolute and unrestricted liberty.

It "seems pretty clear," is the problem. If liberty is defined as being free to do whatever one chooses without interfering with anyone else's liberty, what you suggest is impossible. In fact, thus defined, every other relationship between individual means that someone is usurping authority over another individual's life. The correct name for that is tyranny.

Those are your choices, liberty or tyranny. Most people are petrified of liberty, because it also means they must be responsible for their own lives. Most people prefer tyranny.

Hank

46 posted on 11/17/2002 6:03:42 PM PST by Hank Kerchief
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To: Hank Kerchief
"If liberty is defined as being free to do whatever one chooses without interfering with anyone else's liberty"

That comes pretty close to my definition of libertarianism. I believe it is also not too far from "classical liberalism." I believe it is also not far off from what our founding fathers had in mind.

"Absolute and unrestricted liberty" is not what I think of as libertarianism, but was suggested by another poster. However alot of folks who call themselves "Libertarians," such as the ones at Lewrockwell.com, seem like damn fools.

47 posted on 11/17/2002 6:25:41 PM PST by Sam Cree
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To: hscott
I generally like this commentary, but I think he misses some points. When dealing with the subject of "libertarianism," I think one needs to distinguish clearly among the many facets of the topic. Based on what "libertarians" have told me, I generally define "libertarian" as someone who believes in the non-initiation of force. According to this belief, it is wrong to initiate force or fraud against another person, and government exists to use force in defense against or punishment of those who would use force or fraud against another. Libertarians generally believe that this principle is the be-all and end-all of political philosophy, and that any government action must be measured by this principle and this principle alone.

Within the general group of "libertarians," one must distinguish between members of the Libertarian Party and those who call themselves "libertarians" but are members of some other party or have no political affiliation. Within either of these groups, there are factions just as there are in any other political group. I think there's a strong pro-Second Amendment faction that really has a more conservative Republican outlook on life but is frustrated with the Republican Party. I think there's a strong pro-drug faction that just wants drugs to be legal and likes the intellectual cover that libertarianism provides. I've met Libertarians whose real agenda is that they hate God and hate anyone who is an active, practicing Christian but at the same time want low taxes. They can't be Democrats without supporting taxes and think that supporting the Republicans is to support Christian morality. I think another faction is made of business people who are frustrated with the Republican Party's failures but whose beliefs could just as easily fit within the party.

The point of this long introduction is that generalization about the "libertarians" is always going to have some inaccuracies just as generalization about any political movement.

I differ with libertarianism on its advocacy of open borders. If we throw our borders open to anyone and ask no questions, a foreign enemy can send entire divisions into our country with all of their equipment to seize anything they want whenever they want it. This may sound silly, but listen to the rhetoric of a hard-core libertarian and ask yourself where their position would allow us to act for our own defense. If 10,000 men came sailing over from Cuba with rifles, does any policy that the libertarians advocate allow us to ask them what they are doing? Do any of their policies allow us to stop them before they form into ranks and start shooting?

Another national security issue where I disagree with libertarianism is free trade. I don't believe that tariff policies should allow the unions to put the entire American economy in a stranglehold, but I believe that our policies should try to encourage domestic manufacture of many products. One cause of the War Between the States was the tariff. The South wanted free trade because there was little manufacturing in the South and most powerful Southerners preferred to receive goods from England or France without paying tariffs. The North wanted a tariff to protect Northern manufacturers. When the war was being planned, the South knew that it would need manufactured goods from Europe. The South assumed that the draw of free trade with the South would cause British and French ships to run the Union blockade in order to maintain trade with the South. What the South learned was that when the lead starts to fly, free trade is revealed as nice idea to debate particularly when one is a consumer of goods that might come in trade but not a principle for which people brave the battlefield. One reason that the South lost was that it simply couldn't manufacture needed goods. A lesson for us should be that the nation that can't make what it needs will eventually fall to the nation that can. If a modest tariff helps keep manufacturing at home, it is a good thing.

The final point is that too many libertarians assume that everyone will behave as they do. They assume that because they are motivated largely by economic concerns, others will be as well. They think that if someone has what they need, that person will trade with them so that they can obtain what they need. They don't understand that many people realize that there is more profit in refusing to sell and then conquering those who do not have when they become weak. On a national security level, this blindness is dangerous.

WFTR
Bill

48 posted on 11/17/2002 6:37:51 PM PST by WFTR
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To: Sam Cree
However alot of folks who call themselves "Libertarians," such as the ones at Lewrockwell.com, seem like damn fools.

My grandmother always said there are more horse's arses than there are horses.

Hank

49 posted on 11/17/2002 6:38:27 PM PST by Hank Kerchief
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To: hscott; logic101.net; All
I think everyone here might benefit from this FreeRepublic thread:

Fallacies Index-click here

Best regards,

50 posted on 11/17/2002 6:42:24 PM PST by Copernicus
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To: Reagan Man
I guarantee you, the legalization of prostitution would see skyrocketing increases in STD's, from sea to shining sea.

This statement is fully the equal of one from the leftist gun grabbers stating that legalized concealed carry would lead to shootouts everywhere and blood running in the streets: Vivid, persuasive, emotionally wrenching - and completely 100% wrong based on actual evidence.

51 posted on 11/17/2002 6:44:31 PM PST by coloradan
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To: Copernicus
Where did you get a copy of the DNC handbook?

MARK A SITY
52 posted on 11/17/2002 6:52:50 PM PST by logic101.net
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To: Reagan Man
Do you have any evidence to back up your statement?
53 posted on 11/17/2002 6:56:32 PM PST by Sparta
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To: Copernicus
Oh, wait. I guess I jumped the gun here. But, was this from Marx or Hitler? It looks like it could have gone either way; not that there is much diference really.

And no, I am not accusing you of being in those camps; it's just that your link here shows the left wing tactics so well. And yes, Hitler WAS left wing; national SOCIALIST party!

MARK A SITY
54 posted on 11/17/2002 6:57:03 PM PST by logic101.net
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To: WFTR
You are absolutely correct about the existence of factions within libertarians - there are "left-leaning" libs and "right-leaning" libs for want of a better description. I have always been one of the "right-leaning" faction but only realized it after 9/11.

I disagree about the "drug lovers" of the libertarians. It is true that most libertarians believe in drug legalization. I believe in this too. Why? Is it because I love getting high? Not at all! I could easily get high without any political leanings whatsoever. Do you think drugs are hard to get?

The reason that libertarians (and me) are for drug legalization is quite simple - drug use is a victimless crime. And in my book victimless crimes are not true crimes.

Drug use is a victimless crime because if I use drugs I may harm myself but no one else. Libertarians believe in self-ownership - meaning that whatever I do with my own body is solely my business as long as i don't violate the rights of others.

Now some say that a druggie does violate the rights of others. For example a father who spends the family income on drugs and lets his kids go hungry is violating the rights of his kids. Fine, I'd agree. Prosecute him for child abuse. But not for drug abuse.

The other argument against the WOD is consequentialist - it is a bloody failure. Around half the prisoners in the USA are there for drug offenses. Their incarceration deprives society of their productivity while costing taxpayers to keep them in prison.

The WOD is a mirror of Prohibition. It is a key driver I crime just as Prohibition was. Legalize drugs and you will see a big drop in the crime rate. /rant

Also about the anti-Christian libertarians. I think that this is another fantasy. Yes surely a fair percentage of libs are atheists but many are Christians also.

I started this thread as an attack on the libertarians. I still want to attack them. But let's attack them squarely on their beliefs. Rebut these beliefs. Don't use ad-hominem strawman attacks.

I have to agree with you on open borders and I have always felt this way. Open borders might make sense in some idael libertarian world but in our real world we should put troops on the borders. it is a scandal that we don't. And BTW the Republicans are scared to advocate this because they pander to the Hispanic vote.

55 posted on 11/17/2002 7:01:17 PM PST by hscott
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To: WFTR
...I generally define "libertarian" as someone who believes in the non-initiation of force. According to this belief, it is wrong to initiate force or fraud against another person, and government exists to use force in defense against or punishment of those who would use force or fraud against another. Libertarians generally believe that this principle is the be-all and end-all of political philosophy, and that any government action must be measured by this principle and this principle alone.

My take as well.

As to open borders or restricted borders, a libertarian could advocate the latter as an extended defense against initiation of force from foreign armies or terrorists.

56 posted on 11/17/2002 7:07:28 PM PST by secretagent
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To: ThinkDifferent
Like in Nevada? Oh wait, it doesn't happen there because the legal prostitutes are regularly tested.

What in the world are you talking about? Nevada authorities have a huge problem with STDs spread by illegal prostitution. What in the world leads you to believe that the legalization of prostitution eliminates illegal prostitution? Do you really think most prostitutes and their pimps are rational and that they will obey the law (i.e., get health checkups, shots, register with the state etc) if they are given the opportunity to do so?

57 posted on 11/17/2002 7:08:40 PM PST by Kevin Curry
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To: hscott
Restricted borders as a defense against initiation of force from armies or terrorists - a plausible libertarian position.
58 posted on 11/17/2002 7:10:19 PM PST by secretagent
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To: secretagent
...I generally define "libertarian" as someone who believes in the non-initiation of force. According to this belief, it is wrong to initiate force or fraud against another person, and government exists to use force in defense against or punishment of those who would use force or fraud against another. Libertarians generally believe that this principle is the be-all and end-all of political philosophy, and that any government action must be measured by this principle and this principle alone.

I agree with the above too, but I get sick of the Bill Maher LIBERALtarians who use the word libertarian to justify their love of drugs and perverted sex.
59 posted on 11/17/2002 7:21:36 PM PST by Sparta
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To: Kevin Curry
Nevada authorities have a huge problem with STDs spread by illegal prostitution.

Note the keyword illegal.
60 posted on 11/17/2002 7:22:24 PM PST by Sparta
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