It's Official: Osama bin Laden is Alive

Fox News

[mil-vet]

What does it matter? This one individual, bin laden, is a very small piece of the islamic terrorist threat to civilization. All of islam is a threat; as long as that part of islam not actively terroristic is silent (therefore supportive of the terrorism), the WOT is a target-rich environment!

I wonder how many dummycraps and other mentally challenged liberals would want the WOT to cease if bin laden were proven dead? I can hear dasshole now, making another wimpering attack on Bush about the WOT....

Stay vigilent, stay armed, and never trust an islamic!

[mil-vet]

What does it matter? This one individual, bin laden, is a very small piece of the islamic terrorist threat to civilization. All of islam is a threat; as long as that part of islam not actively terroristic is silent (therefore supportive of the terrorism), the WOT is a target-rich environment!

I wonder how many dummycraps and other mentally challenged liberals would want the WOT to cease if bin laden were proven dead? I can hear dasshole now, making another wimpering attack on Bush about the WOT....

Stay vigilent, stay armed, and never trust an islamic!

[mil-vet]

What does it matter? This one individual, bin laden, is a very small piece of the islamic terrorist threat to civilization. All of islam is a threat; as long as that part of islam not actively terroristic is silent (therefore supportive of the terrorism), the WOT is a target-rich environment!

I wonder how many dummycraps and other mentally challenged liberals would want the WOT to cease if bin laden were proven dead? I can hear dasshole now, making another wimpering attack on Bush about the WOT....

Stay vigilent, stay armed, and never trust an islamic!

[Caipirabob]

During the recent blowout election Walter Mondale campaigned for a Senate seat. I'm still not convinced he's alive. Apparently the voters weren't either.

[mil-vet]

Sorry about the triple post - PC problems!

[Angelus Errare]

A couple of points on this one.

First of all, there were some early reports out saying that there "might" (and it's interesting how this word becomes an absolute fact when referring to the possibility of bin Laden being dead and utterly improbable when referring to the possibility that he is alive). However, we don't know where these alleged breaks are in the tape, which would be the real thing to look at in determining if even the idea of the tape being made in portions make it a forgery (i.e. do they occur in the sections that deal refer to recent events).

Secondly, the idea of bin Laden alive became a lot more possible once it became clear that Ayman al-Zawahiri (who was also reported to be at Tora Bora and has been reported dead on numerous occasions over the summer) was alive. If al-Zawahiri could escape from Tora Bora in one piece, there would be absolutely nothing preventing Osama from doing the same. The various reports that he was clipped by a bomb while escaping, taken to the home of a radical Pakistani cleric while he was stabilized by Dr. Amir Aziz, and then taken to a safe location in Iraq or Iran for further treatment also look a lot more like a coherent picture when you put them altogether rather than isolated cases of wishful thinking by al-Qaeda fighters. This, combined with security concerns and Osama's healthy sense of paranoia, are more than enough reason to justify the use of an audio rather than a videotape.

Thirdly, all of the various techniques by al-Qaeda to forge his voice that I've seen presented on Free Republic simply would not fool the NSA or CIA specialists whose expertise lies in this area. As much as you guys may want to poo-poo the intelligence community for 9/11, I would point out that 9/11 was primarily a result of human rather than technical intelligence failures. All of gadgets worked quite comfortably on 9/11, which was exactly why the NSA was able to quickly intercept and decode an al-Qaeda communique from the United Arab Emirates to Indonesia stating that two of the four targets had just been eliminated, thereby established from the get-go that Osama bin Laden was responsible for 9/11.

There is also a train of thought in this forum that Iraq was responsible for forging this message as a way to hold off action against Saddam Hussein. However, if you listen to the message it becomes clear that bin Laden is effectively demolishing any denials about al-Qaeda's close relationship with Baghdad (as well as its ties to Chechnya) and promising retaliation if his partner in crime is attacked. Such a move would not at all be in Saddam's best interest, as it would only hasten the Bush administration's resolve to eliminate the Iraqi threat ASAP. It does, however, suit bin Laden's purposes quite nicely, as a US attack on Iraq will give him the perfect excuse to launch a massive counter-offensive against US targets worldwide as well as providing our fair weather friends in the European Union a graceful way to avoid being hit by the same terrorist attacks by refusing to provide support to the America. So while the recording suits all of bin Laden's needs, it suits none of Saddam's.

Then there's the train of thought that the Bush administration knows that the tape is a fraud but is using this to justify the War on Terror. Some go even further and say that the CIA created the tape itself. Ignoring the delusional nature of such a scenario and, ignoring any moral principles, the fact that it would be political suicide for the Bush administration if word of such activities ever got out to the press between now and 2004 would be quite enough to deter such a move. I think that people have become so accustomed to government corruption under the Clinton administration that they are having a hard time accepting the fact that we now have a president in office with principles and morality. But even Clinton would have had a tough time forging such a tape without having word of it leak out to the press from disaffected members of his own administration or the agency assigned to complete the task. Heck, Clinton couldn't even disguise the KLA's rather obvious links to al-Qaeda during his Operation Allied Force legacy building operation over Serbia.

Finally, there is a large contingent of Freepers who, despite their repeated (and rather true) claims that this war is about more than one man, simply cannot believe that bin Laden might be alive. The endless stream of rationalizations, rejection of facts, and ultimate failure to accept any evidence that fails to support their conclusion by certain members of this forum serves as more than ample evidence of this. It's like trying to explain to member of DU that guns, being inanimate objects, cannot kill people anymore than SUVs can. I personally believe that even if Osama had released a videotape of himself in full battlefield regalia holding up a copy of the latest edition of the New York Times, this type of denial would continue.

I myself have no vested interest (other than perhaps acquiring the $25,000,000 reward) to believe that bin Laden is alive. Either way, it does little to alter the current state of the War on Terror, regardless of what Daschle or any of the talking heads say. Al-Qaeda was and remains a potent threat to our country, and for that reason alone it should continue to be opposed. I also have more faith (judging from the election results, if nothing else) to recognize that the vast majority of the American people are willing to continue the war regardless of bin Laden's fate.

Just my $0.02.

[Dog]

Thanks for the ping....and you make some great points.

[Ditter]

Change his appearance? Have you seen the pics with his beard cut short & an greasy Elvis pompodore? LOL I guess its possible but I heard he is 6'4" & I know he is painfully thin, he can't change that. If he is still alive he is gravely ill, or we would have seen him by now. Remember the last video when he barley spoke & one arm appeared lifeless? I think he has had a stroke.

[XJarhead]

If he is still alive he is gravely ill, or we would have seen him by now. Remember the last video when he barely spoke & one arm appeared lifeless? I think he has had a stroke.

Hey, Ditter, I did give two explanations for why he might be alive but be unwilling to be seen on a videotape -- 1) change in appearance or 2) obviously ill. My only point was that the mere lack of a videotape does not suggest he is dead. I used to buy that argument myself, but now I think it doesn't hold up. Illness may be more likely than a change in appearence, but either (or both) are legitimate possibilities.

[RightWhale]

Interesting way of putting it.

Anybody's voice could be on a tape. OBL, FDR, JFK, MLK, Ike. Doesn't mean you could interview them.

[F.J. Mitchell]

WE are not trying to bring heaven to earth-just trying to stop the Muslim terrorists from turning life on earth into hell. a difficult task under present conditions, but a noble aspiration all the same, and a way to keep busy while awaiting the fate that some would have us accept as inevitable.

What the h*ll! WE all have to die once anyway-why not make it count for something?

[Austin Willard Wright]

The best strategy to fight Muslim terrorists is support completion of the Operation in Afghanistan (now totally bogged down) and a renewed emphasis on defense of the U.S. including SDI. Saddam is motivated by other goals that Saddam (who is a best a two-bit Mussolini). Wilsonian crusades against "terror" in every corner of planet will only spread resources thin, which should be used for defense not world policing and social engineering.

Your only "we have to die only once theory" is sloppy reasoning and receipe for disappointment. It is akin to the utopianism and "politics of feeling" of the Democrats rather than hard-headed practicalities.

[Austin Willard Wright]

Oops, I meant to say that Saddam is motivated by other goals than Bin Laden.

[ContentiousObjector]

No but if those 8mm tapes have grampa talking about the new Harry Potter movie it sure would

[Republic]

These islamist generals are never in the line of fire or field of war. He's sheltered somewhere in Pakistan. He's safe and sound protected by the ISI.

Ahhh...what? These jerks are interested in the 72 virgin lineup? Geeeeez. Guess they don't believe their own lies!

Wherever this horror of a human is-he will be found. And soon.

[F.J. Mitchell]

"THe best defence is a good offence"

I quote many winners with that, not sure which to give the credit to. Defence without offence allows the offender to pick the time and place, all the tension and worry is upon the intended victim-offence puts you in control of time and place and choice of weapons.

The terrorists aren't confined to Afghanastan, they are world wide-Afghanastan is merely one front of the war. The war on terrorism is in fact, world war three, though it is so far much different than we all anticipated, and the enemy far from what we had prepared for-the enemy is in fact, even more dangerous than we could have imagined and more ruthless than any we ever saw before.

Saddam's regime is next and can not be avoided, unless some fungus eating virus suddenly breaks out among Saddam and his supporting slimeites.

Democrats have bastardized the term "Feelings", just as they have everything else. Feelings of rage, committment, determination, fear, sorrow, disappointment, gratitude, patriotism, doubt, confidence, dedication, and many others are geniunely felt by humans in times of crisis, times of joy, times of threat, times when duty calls, times of sorrow and times of elation and thanks giving.

Hard headed practicallity, is what President Bush's committment to this war on terror is all about. He has feelings, we all have feelings-we are humans-but cold hard logic is determining the course of the war on terrorism.

[F.J. Mitchell]

THeir leaders have opted for 72 nymphomaniacs here and now, to warm up their beds in those cold damp caves where they hide out. They assume they will still out rank their suicidal followers in the here after, and get most of their virgins as well.

[Republic]

Geez-working for a so called God who promises virgins as a reward. It doesn't get any sicker than that.

[F.J. Mitchell]

"It doesn't get any sicker than that."

It probably does get sicker than that, but that level of depravity is revealed only to practicing zealots of the Islamite Cult.