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God Is the Machine
Wired ^ | December 2002 | Kevin Kelly

Posted on 11/21/2002 8:14:40 PM PST by FreetheSouth!

God Is the Machine

IN THE BEGINNING THERE WAS 0. AND THEN THERE WAS 1. A MIND-BENDING MEDITATION ON THE TRANSCENDENT POWER OF DIGITAL COMPUTATION

At today's rates of compression, you could download the entire 3 billion digits of your DNA onto about four CDs. That 3-gigabyte genome sequence represents the prime coding information of a human body — your life as numbers. Biology, that pulsating mass of plant and animal flesh, is conceived by science today as an information process. As computers keep shrinking, we can imagine our complex bodies being numerically condensed to the size of two tiny cells. These micro-memory devices are called the egg and sperm. They are packed with information.

That life might be information, as biologists propose, is far more intuitive than the corresponding idea that hard matter is information as well. When we bang a knee against a table leg, it sure doesn't feel like we knocked into information. But that's the idea many physicists are formulating.

The spooky nature of material things is not new. Once science examined matter below the level of fleeting quarks and muons, it knew the world was incorporeal. What could be less substantial than a realm built out of waves of quantum probabilities? And what could be weirder? Digital physics is both. It suggests that those strange and insubstantial quantum wavicles, along with everything else in the universe, are themselves made of nothing but 1s and 0s. The physical world itself is digital.

The scientist John Archibald Wheeler (coiner of the term "black hole") was onto this in the '80s. He claimed that, fundamentally, atoms are made up of of bits of information. As he put it in a 1989 lecture, "Its are from bits." He elaborated: "Every it — every particle, every field of force, even the space-time continuum itself — derives its function, its meaning, its very existence entirely from binary choices, bits. What we call reality arises in the last analysis from the posing of yes/no questions."

To get a sense of the challenge of describing physics as a software program, picture three atoms: two hydrogen and one oxygen. Put on the magic glasses of digital physics and watch as the three atoms bind together to form a water molecule. As they merge, each seems to be calculating the optimal angle and distance at which to attach itself to the others. The oxygen atom uses yes/no decisions to evaluate all possible courses toward the hydrogen atom, then usually selects the optimal 104.45 degrees by moving toward the other hydrogen at that very angle. Every chemical bond is thus calculated.

If this sounds like a simulation of physics, then you understand perfectly, because in a world made up of bits, physics is exactly the same as a simulation of physics. There's no difference in kind, just in degree of exactness. In the movie The Matrix, simulations are so good you can't tell if you're in one. In a universe run on bits, everything is a simulation.

An ultimate simulation needs an ultimate computer, and the new science of digitalism says that the universe itself is the ultimate computer — actually the only computer. Further, it says, all the computation of the human world, especially our puny little PCs, merely piggybacks on cycles of the great computer. Weaving together the esoteric teachings of quantum physics with the latest theories in computer science, pioneering digital thinkers are outlining a way of understanding all of physics as a form of computation.

From this perspective, computation seems almost a theological process. It takes as its fodder the primeval choice between yes or no, the fundamental state of 1 or 0. After stripping away all externalities, all material embellishments, what remains is the purest state of existence: here/not here. Am/not am. In the Old Testament, when Moses asks the Creator, "Who are you?" the being says, in effect, "Am." One bit. One almighty bit. Yes. One. Exist. It is the simplest statement possible.

(Excerpt) Read more at wired.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: alanturing; computers; digitalcomputation; edfredkin; god; isaacasimov; stephenwolfram
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To: RnMomof7; MacDorcha; Cyrano; Tennessee_Bob; dorben; shaggy eel; RobRoy; EternalVigilance
ping - intriguing discussion!
41 posted on 11/23/2002 6:33:07 PM PST by Terriergal
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To: who_would_fardels_bear; stuartcr
Still, I believe passionately in free will regardless. I was most likely predestined to do so!

LOL!

To me those questions are somewhat academic exercises. I have a hard time, like you, believing that predestination is what Calvin thought it was. I think God predestines us at the moment of salvation to heaven, but that he doesn't micromanage our lives, - which is different from saying he doesn't KNOW beforehand about each detail of our lives. But if I am predestined, who am I to argue with a being so far beyond me as to have created all this *for* *us*?

As it regards predestination what matters is looking at our perception of time as compared to God's perception of time.

I think CS Lewis said it well in _Mere Christianity_ :

Time and Beyond Time

Almost certainly God is not in Time. His life does not consist of moments following one another. If a million people are praying to Him at ten-thirty tonight, He need not listen to them all in that one little snippet which we call ten-thirty. Ten-thirty—and every other moment from the beginning of the world—is always the Present for Him. If you like to put it that way, He has all eternity in which to listen to the split second of prayer put up by a pilot as his plane crashes in flames.

That is difficult, I know. Let me try to give something, not the same, but a bit like it. Suppose: I am writing a novel. I write "Mary laid down her work; next moment came a knock at the door!" For Mary who has to live in the imaginary time of my story there is no interval between putting down the work and hearing the knock. But I, who am Mary's maker, do not live in that imaginary time at all. Between writing the first half of that sentence and the second, I might sit down for three hours and think steadily about Mary. I could think about Mary as if she were the only character in the book and for as long as I pleased, and the hours I spent in doing so would not appear in Mary's time (the time inside the story) at all.

This is not a perfect illustration, of course. But it may give just a glimpse of what I believe to be the truth. God is not hurried along in the Time-stream of this universe any more than an author is hurried along in the imaginary time of his own novel. He has infinite attention to spare for each one of us. He does not have to deal with us in the mass. You are as much alone with Him as if you were the only being He had ever created. When Christ died, He died for you individually just as much as if you had been the only man in the world.

The way in which my illustration breaks down is this. In it the author gets out of one Time-series (that of the novel) only by going into another Time-series (the real one). But God, I believe, does not live in a Time-series at all. His life is not dribbled out moment by moment like ours: with Him it is, so to speak, still 1920 and already 1960. For His life is Himself.

If you picture Time as a straight line along which we have to travel, then you must picture God as the whole page on which the line is drawn. We come to the parts of the line one by one: we have to leave A behind before we get to B, and cannot reach C until we leave B behind. God, from above or outside or all round, contains the whole line, and sees it all.

....

Another difficulty we get if we believe God to be in time is this. Everyone who believes in God at all believes that He knows what you and I are going to do tomorrow. But if He knows I am going to do so-and-so, how can I be free to do otherwise? Well, here once again, the difficulty comes from thinking that God is progressing along the Time-line like us: the only difference being that He can see ahead and we cannot. Well, if that were true, if God foresaw our acts, it would be very hard to understand how we could be free not to do them. But suppose God is outside and above the Time-line. In that case, what we call "tomorrow" is visible to Him in just the same way as what we call "today." All the days are "Now" for Him. He does not remember you doing things yesterday; He simply sees you doing them, because, though you have lost yesterday, He has not. He does not "foresee" you doing things tomorrow; He simply sees you doing them: because, though tomorrow is not yet there for you, it is for Him. You never suppose that your actions at this moment were any less free because God knows what you are doing. Well, He knows your tomorrow's actions in just the same way—because He is already in tomorrow and can simply watch you. In a sense, He does not know your action till you have done it: but then the moment at which you have done it is already "Now" for Him.

42 posted on 11/23/2002 7:02:09 PM PST by Terriergal
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To: who_would_fardels_bear
I don't believe that the Calvinists or other simple-minded folk

LOL watch it there! ;-)

No, I'm not a Calvinist!

43 posted on 11/23/2002 7:04:05 PM PST by Terriergal
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To: stuartcr; itsahoot
If God lives outside the 4 dimensions we can know, how can you know this?

Ahah, here comes stuartcr weilding the socratic method like a club again!

how can you know this?

A little bird told me.

44 posted on 11/23/2002 7:06:53 PM PST by Terriergal
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian; Jerry_M; the_doc; CCWoody; Matchett-PI; JesseShurun; gdebrae; Jean Chauvin; ..
bump
45 posted on 11/23/2002 7:06:56 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: who_would_fardels_bear
I believe there will be an answer to this question and I don't believe that the Calvinists or other simple-minded folk have come up with the answer ..

No but the Bible does..and if you do not read the Bible all you have is your opinion..which is worth?????

46 posted on 11/23/2002 7:09:05 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Terriergal
To me those questions are somewhat academic exercises. I have a hard time, like you, believing that predestination is what Calvin thought it was. I think God predestines us at the moment of salvation to heaven, but that he doesn't micromanage our lives, - which is different from saying he doesn't KNOW beforehand about each detail of our lives. But if I am predestined, who am I to argue with a being so far beyond me as to have created all this *for* *us*?

You are predestined before you were born..Is micro managing knowing how many hairs will be on your hair brush tomorrow? :>)))

Interesting discussion Terri

47 posted on 11/23/2002 7:12:42 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Abcdefg
IMHO, there is only analog pretending to be digital.

Analog == Digital. Any distinction made in engineering is essentially artificial, as both formats can interchangeably be treated like the other. "Analog" and "Digital" are merely descriptive names for encoding formats that humans invented. The universe doesn't make this distinction -- it just has "information".

The only time Analog is not equivalent to Digital is when you get into the realm of the impossible, like infinitely large signal-to-noise ratios.

48 posted on 11/23/2002 7:15:23 PM PST by tortoise
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To: FairWitness
You've read Heinlein but you haven't read "Time Enough For Love"? Shame on you! TEFL was arguably his greatest work and the one against the others should be judged; Stranger In A Strange Land pales in comparison.
49 posted on 11/23/2002 7:18:29 PM PST by tortoise
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To: stuartcr
Is not God beyond our logic?

Yes, he is, because his logic is perfect... because he not only knows the truth, he *is* truth. We have some of that capability, but it is corrupted. That does not mean that we cannot think logically in spurts. Some people more than others.

How do we know when we are being logical and when we are not? That is something that has to be experienced, much like the relationship with him you demanded I prove.

The truth is, I cannot prove God to you in the way you demand. None of us can and we admit that. Only God himself can soften your heart to the point that you can choose him.

We have all seen stories where the man loves the woman but she will not believe it and continually rejects him. We on the outside can see plainly that he loves her, she cannot accept it because it doesn't look exactly like she has previously decided love would look like. Now, hopefully we have a happy ending and the man's love is finally requited. But we don't know the end of the story yet, for each individual. I hope that someday you will requite God's immeasurable love for you, stuartcr.

50 posted on 11/23/2002 7:22:08 PM PST by Terriergal
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To: Mr. K
THat is a great one!! lol!
51 posted on 11/23/2002 7:23:01 PM PST by Terriergal
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To: FreetheSouth!
that pulsating mass of plant and animal flesh,

OOOOOOH. Kinky!

(and people say geeks have no fun!)

52 posted on 11/23/2002 7:24:42 PM PST by Terriergal
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To: stuartcr
Why do you assign the traits of our earthbound logic to God? Is not God beyond our logic?

Ummm... God really isn't beyond our logic, which isn't really bound by science or the universe. Or at least, if you accept that God is beyond our logic than you pretty much have to accept a whole suitcase of other things that you probably would rather not. Math isn't beyond question, but if you break it, you essentially break a lot of other things and the consequences are ugly for you and I. Very messy.

53 posted on 11/23/2002 7:25:09 PM PST by tortoise
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To: FreetheSouth!
"Am."

oooh... that gave me goosebumps.

54 posted on 11/23/2002 7:30:03 PM PST by Terriergal
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To: tortoise
I think it would better be stated God is beyond our capability for logic. The logic of God is true...(or should I rather say, God *is* logic) in contrast to our degraded copy. He is the original image, we are just low res jpgs...hopefully we are slowly being reformatted to be closer and closer to the original by some sanctifying algorithms... ;-)
55 posted on 11/23/2002 7:33:19 PM PST by Terriergal
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To: RnMomof7; who_would_fardels_bear
I believe there will be an answer to this question and I don't believe that the Calvinists or other simple-minded folk have come up with the answer ..

No but the Bible does..and if you do not read the Bible all you have is your opinion..which is worth?????

I wonder, wwfb, did you mean to include all of Christianity/humanity in the "other simple minded folks"? :-) Cuz then I'd tend to agree with you!

56 posted on 11/23/2002 7:35:39 PM PST by Terriergal
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To: Terriergal
Yes, he is, because his logic is perfect

This is semantically null. What the heck is "perfect logic"? I think you are misusing the word "logic", because any logic that God could use, humans could use also (with all the usual caveats). What you are saying essentially amounts to saying that mathematics isn't "scalable". Even if not technically wrong as a hypothesis, you seem to be saying that your lack of understanding justifies using unsupported assertions. Kind of like the fallacy of making an argument from incredulity.

This isn't meant to be a flame. More like a "Huh?".

57 posted on 11/23/2002 7:38:01 PM PST by tortoise
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To: Terriergal
I think it would better be stated God is beyond our capability for logic. The logic of God is true.

Logic isn't hard. If God is logic then it doesn't have to be asserted, it can be explained. Otherwise it is essentially a baseless assertion, and baseless assertions are NEVER justified. I strongly doubt that God would dabble in baseless assertions if God is even remotely what he is cracked up to be.

58 posted on 11/23/2002 7:42:16 PM PST by tortoise
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To: tortoise
humans could use also

Ok, I think I see what you're saying. OK then I will say that our logic (as long as we exercise it) is the same as God's. But that we lack the will to use it quite frequently.

In addition, since we cannot know everything, our perspective and application of logic is faulty because we cannot take into account all facts.

59 posted on 11/23/2002 7:43:36 PM PST by Terriergal
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To: tortoise
What the heck is "perfect logic"?

Yeah... I definitely see the flaw in that. Logic is just... logic.

60 posted on 11/23/2002 7:45:31 PM PST by Terriergal
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