Bush to Sign Homeland Security Bill

Fox News ^ | Monday, November 25, 2002 | AP

[Sparta]

Brillant pick. Who's going to be the deputy, Vicente Fox.

[Tauzero]

"You know what? If you're not a terrorist, and you keep your nose clean, basically a law-abiding citizen and still entitled to your Constitutional rights....why do you fear so???"

Three points.

1) The right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure has been greatly eroded. (Though as another poster above noted, the "Patriot" act is much worse on this point.)

2) Whether one is a terrorist or not is something that is determined *after* the exercise of these new powers. It is not possible to employ these new powers *only* on terrorists. The ostensible purpose of the new powers is after all, to *identify* terrorists. So the fact that I am not a terrorist provides little, if any, protection against these new powers.

3) The stated purpose of any law is seldom the only purpose for which it is eventually used. In fact, stated purposes of laws often have *nothing whatsoever* to do with the law's eventual effects. Rather than examining stated purposes, it is better to analyze laws according to the incentives and constraints they create, and the actual legal language that defines exceptions or constraints upon the law.

[Sparta]

Do you have a link to it?

[FormerLurker]

You know what? If you're not a terrorist, and you keep your nose clean, basically a law-abiding citizen and still entitled to your Constitutional rights....why do you fear so???

The people whose FBI files were used by Clinton to bring them into line, do you think they were terrorists?

[Victor]

I don't agree with your premise. Clinton violated the law; will violate any law for political gain. In his case (as in the case of any outlaw) it doesn't matter what laws are on the books.

[deport]

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c107:3:./temp/~c107auOcnG::

This link won't stay hot long.... as Thomas kills it shortly after you connect. If it doens't work then the following and click on 5005 about 5 down from the top in the 3rd column.... good luck

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/vote_menu_107_2.htm

[Sparta]

I'm sorry, but all it does is shuffle papers from one agency to another. The fundamental problems(unwillingness to combat illegal immigration) still remain.

[Revel]

From Drudge:

SENATOR ASHCROFT HAD WARNED: 'KEEP
BIG BROTHER'S HANDS OFF THE
INTERNET': 'The [Clinton]
administration's interest in all
e-mail is a wholly unhealthy
precedent, especially given this
administration's track record on FBI
files and IRS snooping. Every medium
by which people communicate can be
subject to exploitation by those
with illegal intentions.
Nevertheless, this is no reason to
hand Big Brother the keys to unlock
our e-mail diaries, open our ATM
records, read our medical records,
or translate our international
communications' -- Ashcroft, Oct
'97...

[FormerLurker]

I don't agree with your premise. Clinton violated the law; will violate any law for political gain. In his case (as in the case of any outlaw) it doesn't matter what laws are on the books.

The power of the Presidency has been vastly enhanced by this bill. Future (or even current) presidents wouldn't even HAVE to break the law in order to stifle dissent.

[Sparta]

Ashcroft being a hypocrite, what else is new.

[cardinal4]

I think the Bush admin would use it more against Foriegners as the Clinonistas would use it more against political enemies such as rape victims, weird religious cults, and Elian Gonzalez.

[deport]

Well we shall see won't we. It takes time to do anything in this beauracy..... We can hope for the best. Unless you have an instant solution and can implement it.

[Sparta]

Bush set to sign Homeland Security bill any minute now.

[NormsRevenge]

Agreed we need a good go-to guy south of the border... not "bus 'em over" foX..

[Sparta]

I was being sarcastic.

[swheats]

A sad day for freedom in America.

Only if you're a terrorist or criminal.

[deport]

Yep sounds like a winner to me.... now can you implement it or get the gov't to.

[NormsRevenge]

Over 50 years since this massive a re-org has been done in the federal govt. History in the making. 22 agencies become as 1, sort of.

For my next trick, world peace..

Good luck, President Bush.