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Who Are the Palestinians?
Arutz Sheva ^ | 11-24-02

Posted on 11/25/2002 10:39:10 AM PST by SJackson

A rebuttal:

If you are so sure that “Palestine, the country, goes back through most of recorded history”, I expect you to be able to answer a few basic questions about that country of "Palestine":

1. When was it founded and by whom?

2. What were its borders?

3. What was its capital?

4. What were its major cities?

5. What constituted the basis of its economy?

6. What was its form of government?

7. Can you name at least one Palestinian leader before Arafat?

8. Was Palestine ever recognized by a country whose existence, at that time or now, leaves no room for interpretation?

9. What was the language of the country of Palestine?

10. What was the prevalent religion of the country of Palestine?

11. What was the name of its currency? Choose any date in history and try and find the approximate exchange rate of the Palestinian monetary unit against the US dollar, German mark, British pound, Japanese yen, or Chinese yuan on that date.

12. Have the Palestinians left any artifacts behind?

13. Do you know of a library where one could find a work of Palestinian literature produced before 1967?

14. And, finally, since there is no such country today, what caused its demise and when did it occur?

If you are lamenting the “low sinking” of “once proud” nation, then please tell me, when exactly was that “nation” proud and what was it so proud of?

And here is the least sarcastic question of all: If the people you mistakenly call “Palestinians” are anything but generic Arabs collected from all over - or thrown out of - the Arab world, if they really have a genuine ethnic identity that gives them right for self-determination, why did they never try to become independent until Arabs suffered their devastating defeat by Israel in the 1967Six Day War?

I hope you avoid the temptation to trace the modern day “Palestinians” to the Biblical Philistines: substituting etymology for history won´t work here.

The truth should be obvious to everyone who wants to know it. Arab countries have never abandoned the dream of destroying Israel; they still cherish it today. Having time and again failed to achieve their evil goal through military means, they decided to fight Israel by proxy. For that purpose, they created a terrorist organization, cynically called it “the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people” and installed it in Gaza, Judea, and Samaria. How else can you explain the refusal by Jordan and Egypt to unconditionally accept back the “West Bank” and Gaza, respectively, in the aftermath of the 1967 war?

The fact is, Arabs populating Gaza, Judea, and Samaria have much less of a claim to nationhood than the American Indian tribe that successfully emerged in Connecticut with the purpose of starting a tax-exempt casino: at least that tribe had a constructive goal that motivated them. The so-called “Palestinians” have only one motivation: the destruction of Israel, and in my book that is not sufficient to consider them a “nation” -- or anything else. Their leadership is nothing but a terrorist organization that will one day be dismantled.

In fact, there is only one way to achieve piece in the Middle East. Arab countries must acknowledge and accept their defeat in their war against Israel and, as the losing side, should pay Israel reparations for the more than 50 years of devastation they have visited upon it. The most appropriate form of such reparations would be the removal of the terrorist organizations from the land of Israel and acceptance of Israel´s ancient sovereignty over Gaza, Judea, and Samaria.

That will mark the end of the Palestinian people. What are you saying again was its beginning?

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Yashiko Sagamori is a New York-based Information Technology consultant.


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Israel
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1 posted on 11/25/2002 10:39:10 AM PST by SJackson
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Yehuda; Alouette; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Optimist; weikel; ...
If you'd like to be on or off this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.
2 posted on 11/25/2002 10:41:14 AM PST by SJackson
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To: SJackson
Do you know of a library where one could find a work of Palestinian literature produced before 1967?

Ooh! Ooh! I got one!

Walnut Street Virtual Library

Descriptive Geography and Brief Historical Sketch of Palestine written in 1850, by a Palestinian.*

*Rabbi Joseph Schwarz. Back then, all Palestinians were Jews.

3 posted on 11/25/2002 10:45:55 AM PST by Alouette
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To: SJackson
so-called “Palestinians” have only one motivation: the destruction of Israel - You could also read it in the PLO original document in Arabic .....
4 posted on 11/25/2002 10:46:21 AM PST by Ally
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To: SJackson
The Jews took no one's land
WorldNetDaily | joseph farah

As the most visible Arab-American critic of Yasser Arafat and the phony "Palestinian" agenda, I get a lot of
hate mail.

I've even received more than my share of death threats.

Most of those who attack me – at least those who bother to get beyond the four-letter words and insults – say I just don't
understand or have sympathy for these poor Arabs who were displaced, chased out of their homes and turned into refugees by the Israelis.

Let me state this plainly and clearly: The Jews in Israel took no one's land.

When Mark Twain visited the Holy Land in the 19th century, he was greatly disappointed. He didn't see any people. He
referred to it as a vast wasteland. The land we now know as Israel was practically deserted.

By the beginning of the 20th century, that began to change. Jews from all over the world began to return to their ancestral
homeland – the Promised Land Moses and Joshua had conquered millennia earlier, Christians and Jews believe, on the direct orders of God.

That's not to say there wasn't always a strong Jewish presence in the land – particularly in and around Jerusalem. In 1854, according to a report in the New York Tribune, Jews constituted two-thirds of the population of that holy city. The source for that statistic? A journalist on assignment in the Middle East that year for the Tribune. His name was Karl Marx. Yes, that Karl Marx.

A travel guide to Palestine and Syria, published in 1906 by Karl Baedeker, illustrates the fact that, even when the Islamic
Ottoman Empire ruled the region, the Muslim population in Jerusalem was minimal. The book estimates the total population of the city at 60,000, of whom 7,000 were Muslims, 13,000 were Christians and 40,000 were Jews.

"The number of Jews has greatly risen in the last few decades, in spite of the fact that they are forbidden to immigrate or to possess landed property," the book states.Even though the Jews were persecuted, still they came to Jerusalem and represented the overwhelming majority of the population as early as 1906. And even though Muslims today claim Jerusalem as the third holiest site in Islam, when the city was under Islamic rule, they had little interest in it.

As the Jews came, drained the swamps and made the deserts bloom, something interesting began to happen. Arabs followed. I don't blame them. They had good reason to come. They came for jobs. They came for prosperity. They came for freedom. And they came in large numbers.

Winston Churchill observed in 1939: "So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population."

Then came 1948 and the great partition. The United Nations proposed the creation of two states in the region – one Jewish, one Arab. The Jews accepted it gratefully. The Arabs rejected it with a vengeance and declared war.

Arab leaders urged Arabs to leave the area so they would not be caught in the crossfire. They could return to their homes, they were told, after Israel was crushed and the Jews destroyed. It didn't work out that way. By most counts, several hundred thousand Arabs were displaced by this war – not by Israeli aggression, not by some Jewish real-estate grab, not by Israeli expansionism.

In fact, there are many historical records showing the Jews urged the Arabs to stay and live with them in peace. But, tragically,
they chose to leave.

Fifty-four years later, the sons and daughters and grandsons and granddaughters of those refugees are all-too-often still living in refugee camps – not because of Israeli intransigence, but because they are misused as a political tool of the Arab powers.

Those poor unfortunates could be settled in a week by the rich Arab oil states that control 99.9 percent of the Middle East
landmass, but they are kept as virtual prisoners, filled with misplaced hatred for Jews and armed as suicide martyrs by the Arab power brokers.

This is the modern real history of the Arab-Israeli conflict. At no time did the Jews uproot Arab families from their homes.
When there were title deeds to be purchased, they bought them at inflated prices. When there were not, they worked the land so they could have a place to live without the persecution they faced throughout the world.

It's a great big lie that the Israelis displaced anyone – one of a series of lies and myths that have the world on the verge of committing yet another great injustice to the Jews.

5 posted on 11/25/2002 10:46:43 AM PST by workinggirl
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To: Molly Pitcher
Perhaps there's some stuff you can use here, Molly.
6 posted on 11/25/2002 10:53:44 AM PST by Mr. Mulliner
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*bump*

This is a good post to cut out and keep in your wallet for an in-your-face rebuttal to the crazies.

7 posted on 11/25/2002 10:55:15 AM PST by jiggyboy
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To: workinggirl
"It's a great big lie that the Israelis displaced anyone – one of a series of lies and myths that have the world on the verge of committing yet another great injustice to the Jews. "

It is a lie endorsed by the US State Dept
which much too often sides and marches with terrorists.

8 posted on 11/25/2002 11:00:08 AM PST by Diogenesis
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To: SJackson
While I agree with the tenor of your posting, one point should be clarified. The word palestine comes from a reference to the Philistines but as you correctly state, those that today call themselves Palastinians are not descended from the Philistines.

Its thought by many that the Philistines were Greek in origin. These enemies of Israel was the source of the name forced on the region during Roman occupation.

The rulers of the time wanted to destroy Israel's heritage and culture and forced them to adopt the name of their longtime enemy.

The word Palastine is derived from the Latinization of the word Philistine.

Perform a google search on the terms farah, roman palestine philistine and you will find plenty of sources that speaks about this.
9 posted on 11/25/2002 11:04:00 AM PST by tang-soo
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To: Alouette
Rabbi Joseph Schwarz. Back then, all Palestinians were Jews.

Righto! And the original name of the Jerusalem Post was ... The Palestine Post.

10 posted on 11/25/2002 11:06:45 AM PST by DallasMike
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To: SJackson
It would be a bad move for anyone to try to link Palestinains with Philistines, especially since it is known that the Philistines were not native to the area - they come from Greece or Anatolia somewhere.
11 posted on 11/25/2002 11:11:28 AM PST by exmarine
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To: SJackson
BUMP
BUMP
BUMP
BUMP
BUMP!

12 posted on 11/25/2002 11:11:56 AM PST by ppaul
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To: workinggirl

1941 – Grand Mufti Visits Adolf Hitler in Germany

The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini, visits Berlin, meets with Hitler and makes Arabic radio broadcasts to Islamic troops fighting for the Nazi Third Reich. The mufti and some of his aides participate in plans for the destruction of European Jewry and help the German propaganda machine. The mufti works to build his personal stature in the world as a major Arab leader. In May 1941, German planes land in Syria with the consent of the French Vichy authorities and then continue to Iraq to help the rebels against the British. Jewish leaders in Jerusalem become convinced of an Axis invasion from the north.


13 posted on 11/25/2002 11:16:05 AM PST by ppaul
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To: SJackson
Bookmarked and bumping
14 posted on 11/25/2002 11:20:56 AM PST by Bradís Gramma
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To: Brad's Gramma
bttt
15 posted on 11/25/2002 12:20:21 PM PST by tang-soo
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To: SJackson
Also, name for me 1, just one, UN resolution before 1967 decrying Jordon and Egypt for occupying 'palistinian land'??
16 posted on 11/25/2002 12:22:31 PM PST by ChadGore
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To: SJackson
BTTT
17 posted on 11/25/2002 12:55:38 PM PST by thatdewd
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To: ppaul
Haj Amin al-Husseini was also Yasser Arafat's uncle. No Joke.
18 posted on 11/25/2002 1:00:11 PM PST by thatdewd
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To: tang-soo
According to the Letter of Ashola Bin Lying:

Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple:

(1) Because you attacked us and continue to attack us.

a) You attacked us in Palestine:

(i) Palestine, which has sunk under military occupation for more than 80 years. The British handed over Palestine, with your help and your support, to the Jews, who have occupied it for more than 50 years; years overflowing with oppression, tyranny, crimes, killing, expulsion, destruction and devastation. The creation and continuation of Israel is one of the greatest crimes, and you are the leaders of its criminals. And of course there is no need to explain and prove the degree of American support for Israel. The creation of Israel is a crime which must be erased. Each and every person whose hands have become polluted in the contribution towards this crime must pay its*price, and pay for it heavily.

(ii) It brings us both laughter and tears to see that you have not yet tired of repeating your fabricated lies that the Jews have a historical right to Palestine, as it was promised to them in the Torah. Anyone who disputes with them on this alleged fact is accused of anti-semitism. This is one of the most fallacious, widely-circulated fabrications in history. The people of Palestine are pure Arabs and original Semites. It is the Muslims who are the inheritors of Moses (peace be upon him) and the inheritors of the real Torah that has not been changed. Muslims believe in all of the Prophets, including Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allah be upon them all. If the followers of Moses have been promised a right to Palestine in the Torah, then the Muslims are the most worthy nation of this.

When the Muslims conquered Palestine and drove out the Romans, Palestine and Jerusalem returned to Islaam, the religion of all the Prophets peace be upon them. Therefore, the call to a historical right to Palestine cannot be raised against the Islamic Ummah that believes in all the Prophets of Allah (peace and blessings be upon them) - and we make no distinction between them.

(iii) The blood pouring out of Palestine must be equally revenged. You must know that the Palestinians do not cry alone; their women are not widowed alone; their sons are not orphaned alone.
19 posted on 11/25/2002 1:41:22 PM PST by Bugbear
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To: SJackson
This kind of logical reasoning will get NOWHERE with the Pali lovers that inhabit this website. If they succombed to logic they would have to give up and go BACK to Jordan, their original country.
20 posted on 11/25/2002 1:45:40 PM PST by Republic of Texas
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To: Bugbear
If you count the times I laugh at Palestinians, maybe you don't cry alone,
21 posted on 11/25/2002 1:47:24 PM PST by Republic of Texas
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To: Bugbear
While you're busy spouting this insane Islamo-facist mumbo jumbo, why don't you ANSWER THE DAMN QUESTIONS ASKED IN THE BEGINNING OF THIS THREAD!
22 posted on 11/25/2002 1:49:03 PM PST by Republic of Texas
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To: Republic of Texas
Look for some parphazing of these excerps to show up in Hillary Clintoon's Presidential Campaign Speeches...
23 posted on 11/25/2002 1:51:38 PM PST by Bugbear
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To: Republic of Texas
OK, According to the map in my bible the land that is listed as Palistine is now called Jordan! But then you did not want to go that far back. Quite frankley I think the PLO should leave and go back to Jordan or where ever hole they crawed out of.
24 posted on 11/25/2002 1:56:32 PM PST by Bugbear
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To: Republic of Texas
Uh, if you look at the preamble to bugbear's posting number 19 that you refer to, I think you will quickly figure out that he does not support the info mouthed by Bin Layin' but is simply stating what the typical Pali response would be.
25 posted on 11/25/2002 2:00:10 PM PST by tang-soo
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To: Republic of Texas
Quite frankly I don't ascribe to Aslamic Law, but it does amaze me how much they have in common with Democraps. For me Clintons, Dashles, Ashola Bin Lying, Pot Pol, Lenin and Hitler are all from the the same pot of egotistic, Socialist Scum.
26 posted on 11/25/2002 2:01:02 PM PST by Bugbear
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To: SJackson
Arab Islamics lie thorugh their teeth regularly about their "palestinian" Arab fodder. Such is consistent with the Islamic historical view - revisionist to the core.
27 posted on 11/25/2002 2:39:55 PM PST by Lent
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To: SJackson
When I clicked on this link I was expecting some sort of National Geographic type of pictorial with information. I've never seen or met a Palestinian. My thoughts though on who they are is that they are/were an Arabic people who live in the area that is Israel and are NOT peaceful.

Hey, that Indian tribe in CN, aren't they the ones who are black?

28 posted on 11/25/2002 3:37:15 PM PST by DBtoo
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To: DBtoo
There was an article in National Geograpic with Maps about 20 years ago but I don't have it anymore
29 posted on 11/25/2002 4:14:20 PM PST by Bugbear
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To: DBtoo
When I clicked on this link I was expecting some sort of National Geographic type of pictorial with information. I've never seen or met a Palestinian. My thoughts though on who they are is that they are/were an Arabic people who live in the area that is Israel and are NOT peaceful...Hey, that Indian tribe in CN, aren't they the ones who are black?

I'm close to agreeing with you, they're Arabs, though not a distinct group of Arabs till well post 67, and then only due to "political recognition".

Certainly not peaceful, which is really the relevant point.

30 posted on 11/25/2002 4:28:55 PM PST by SJackson
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To: yonif

31 posted on 11/25/2002 5:12:15 PM PST by Enemy Of The State
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To: SJackson
Good question...what the hell is a palestinian?

how is Arafat the leader of "Palestinians" when he is an Egyptian?

32 posted on 11/25/2002 5:15:22 PM PST by Enemy Of The State
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To: Diogenesis
"It's a great big lie that the Israelis displaced anyone – one of a series of lies and myths that have the world on the verge of committing yet another great injustice to the Jews. "

It is a lie endorsed by the US State Dept which much too often sides and marches with terrorists.

My Bible endorses it too. Joshua wiped out somebody in Jericho. Or are you going back to some earlier date?

33 posted on 11/25/2002 5:20:46 PM PST by ex-snook
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To: SJackson
Do they claim to be a distinct group? I figured they were the same as the other Arabs in that part of the world. I had known that before Israel became a country, that it was sparsely populated and mostly desert. I suspect many of the Palestinians/Arabs came in afterwards looking for jobs. The same kind of thing happened with S. Africa, though there was no earlier history there as there was in Israel.
34 posted on 11/25/2002 5:27:30 PM PST by DBtoo
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To: Enemy Of The State
Maybe an Egyptian can qualify as a Palestinian if he decides he wants to be one? Seems to work that way. If you are an Arab and you move to Israel, *poof* you can be a Palestinian too! I think that is how it works. (sarcasm off)
35 posted on 11/25/2002 5:37:18 PM PST by DBtoo
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To: DBtoo
Maybe an Egyptian can qualify as a Palestinian if he decides he wants to be one?

You mean like Arafat, the Egyptian leader of the "palestinians"?

36 posted on 11/25/2002 6:12:54 PM PST by SJackson
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To: SJackson
bump... for later reading.
37 posted on 11/26/2002 8:04:09 AM PST by 1bigdictator
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To: SJackson

i think that you are an un educated man, because obviously you claim that there was never a country called Palestine. just answer a question the major religion is Muslim and the language spoken is Arabic. who gives you the right to say Jerusalem belongs to the Jew's obviously you must be one. when Jew's needed a place to live we Palestinians welcomed them in and gave them a country they can freely unit and live in. but of coarse those no good for nothing Jew's went against us and started to take over. all in all one day that land will come back to the rightful owners the Palestinian. just to let you know you are very ignorant and should brush up on your history on whats been going on for the past decades in the middle east.


38 posted on 05/12/2005 8:12:59 PM PDT by proud palistinian (sunnyde88@yahoo.com)
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To: SJackson

"Who are the Palestinians"

A group of Arabs - mostly Jordanian, but also Egyptian Syrian etc, who, for political reasons, chose to call themselves "falistainians" (there is no "p" sound in Arabic) since 1967.


39 posted on 05/12/2005 8:20:12 PM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I am very, very good. But! When I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: proud palistinian
Preserved for the ages, along with your profile:

“hi i would just like to say i am a proud palistinian hint the user name. i am a female who is pist off about the way palistinians are being treated. all arbs need to unite and take over what is rightfuly ours the country palistine.”

40 posted on 05/12/2005 8:23:29 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: ppaul
What most people don't know is that the Grand Mufti was Arafat's uncle. He fueled the demon rat's vitriol and like Arafat, was an Arab from Egypt.
41 posted on 05/12/2005 8:27:24 PM PDT by Brofholdonow
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To: proud palistinian

And you should learn to use a spell checker, and a bit more English grammar study.
It helps, when you want to write, you know.


42 posted on 05/13/2005 5:24:15 AM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I am very, very good. But! When I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: Marguerite
And you should learn to use a spell checker, and a bit more English grammar study. It helps, when you want to write, you know.

I believe that was posted about 6:15 in Gaza. I didn't know the internet cafes opened that early. At least she bumped the thread.

43 posted on 05/13/2005 5:29:56 AM PDT by SJackson (The first duty of a leader is to make himself be loved without courting love, Andre Malraux)
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To: SJackson

Even an illiterate can help the cause.
LOL


44 posted on 05/13/2005 5:35:56 AM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I am very, very good. But! When I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Yehuda; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; ...
If you'd like to be on this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

Bumped three years later by "request" in post 38

45 posted on 05/13/2005 5:37:18 AM PDT by SJackson (The first duty of a leader is to make himself be loved without courting love, Andre Malraux)
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To: Marguerite

Phillistines...


46 posted on 05/13/2005 5:41:20 AM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood
They are not even Philistine, but Arabs
47 posted on 05/13/2005 5:43:24 AM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I am very, very good. But! When I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: SJackson

"PALESTINE" - Never an Arab Country

One of the myths of our time is that Israel, before it was settled by the “alien” Jews and “stolen” from the Arabs as a result of “imperialist machinations,” was an independent state called “Palestine” whose majority residents were Moslem “Palestinians”. Unfortunately for those who would propagate such misinformation, the truth can be easily and historically seen.
The historical fact is that until the defeat of the Ottoman (Turkish) Empire in World War I, there was no geopolitical entity called “Palestine,” no Arab nation ever set historical roots on this soil and no national claim was ever made to the territory by any national group other than the Jews.

Between the time of the expulsion of the Jews by the Romans in the year 70 to 132 AD and the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in 1918, Israel (“Palestine”) was occupied by fourteen conquerors over thirteen centuries, until in 1948 the Jews once again declared their independence. The following table shows the historical periods of the various rulers of “Palestine”:


1. Israel Rule (Biblical period) 1350 BC to 586 BC
2. Babylonian Conquest 587 BC to 538 BC
3. Israel Autonomy (under Persian & Greco-Assyrian sovereignty) 538 BC to 168 BC
4. Revolt of the Maccabees 168 BC to 143 BC
5. Rule of the Hashmoneans & their successors 143 BC to 70 AD
6. Jewish Autonomy (under Roman & Byzantine sovereignty) 70 AD to 637 AD
7. Rule of Moslem Caliphs
Mecca 637 AD to 661 AD
Umayyides 661 AD to 750 AD
Abbaaside 750 AD to 870 AD
Fatimides 969 AD to 1071 AD 637 AD to 1072 AD
8. Seljukes Rule 1072 AD to 1096 AD
9. Crusaders
Ayyubids (in parts only) 1175 AD to 1291 AD 1099 AD to 1291 AD
10. Mamelukes Rule 1291 AD to 1516 AD
11. Ottomans (Turks) 1516 AD to 1918 AD
12. British Mandate 1918 AD to 1948 AD
13. Israel rule under democracy 1948 AD --- .

http://christianactionforisrael.org/never_arab.html


48 posted on 05/13/2005 5:44:39 AM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I am very, very good. But! When I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: Admin Moderator
Preserved for the ages, along with your profile:

38 posted on 05/12/2005 8:12:59 PM PDT by proud palistinian (sunnyde88@yahoo.com)

FYI - Eight two times (88) signifies "HH" shorthand for the Nazi greeting, "Heil Hitler."

49 posted on 05/13/2005 5:46:33 AM PDT by veronica (CP = Jeffords Republicrats...)
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To: veronica

She'll be back as proudpalestinian14


50 posted on 05/13/2005 5:48:08 AM PDT by SJackson (The first duty of a leader is to make himself be loved without courting love, Andre Malraux)
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