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To: Jacob Kell
I was replying to the Harpseal post;

"What most people forget is that the Islamic war machine conquered most of what is now Islam militarily. One either converted to Islam or faced death"

I think you can substitute Christian and Christianity and the paragraph will the just as valid.

Surely, you don't believe all the pagans and heretics immediately and voluntarily became good Catholics following the conversion of Constantine? Nor is your statement true. The Byzantines were both Christian and Roman and used rather brutal methods to impose their beliefs on those they conquered or reconquered.

Nor were the modern Europeans much better. The Spanish treatment of the American Indians is legendary for its cruelty - but actually they were only continuing to do what they had been doing for centuries during the Reconquista. The other Europeans were pretty much the same.

If you doubt this look at how Christians treated each other during the century or two of wars following Martin Luther's declaration of independence from the Catholic Church.

51 posted on 11/28/2002 5:33:14 PM PST by liberallarry
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To: liberallarry
The Spanish treatment of the American Indians is legendary for its cruelty -

A ridiculous lie. The Spanish were forbidden (by the Pope and by their King) to enslave the Indians, and basically treated them rather well. Perhaps a modern cultural relativist wouldn't like the Spanish approach, but I do: they taught the Indians Christianity, baptized them - and then intermarried.

The English, by contrast, had an initial period in which they accepted Indians as possibly equal in humanity, and then shifted to a point of view that regarded Christianity as the property of Englishmen, and the Indians as forever outside of that. And they did not intermarry, in contrast to the Spanish.

BTW, when Spain ruled Florida, black slaves used to flee from the (British) Carolinas to St. Augustine, because they were freed when they entered Spanish territory and accepted baptism. This was something for which the Carolinians never forgave the Spanish, and after they failed in their attack on St. Augustine in 1702, the Carolinians returned to attack the poorly defended western lands of Spanish Florida and Georgia. One of the things they were notable for was herding the Christian Indians and the Spanish friars and soliders into the tiny mission churches and then setting fire to the churches.

Please review your history before making bigoted and idiotic statements.

53 posted on 11/28/2002 6:16:01 PM PST by livius
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To: liberallarry
The English and French propaganda regarding the cruelty inflicted by Spaniards on the American Indians was truly frightful stuff.

Most of it was not true.

57 posted on 11/29/2002 5:45:13 AM PST by muawiyah
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