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To: collectingdust
aristedes wrote:
"IQ of 115 or above represents one standard deviation above the average for whites, two standard deviations for blacks: this is 16% of whites, and 2.3% of blacks. IQ of 130 represents two standard deviations above the average for whites, three standard deviations for blacks: this is 2.3% of whites, 0.13% of blacks."

and collectingdust replied:
And this is the critical level at which all of the institutions (cultural, political, economic, legal) we hold dear are created and preserved. Labor can be found in mass wherever you look, but the engineers, doctors, scientists, writers, etc., occur at the high end of the IQ curve. If, in total, only 2.313% of blacks in the US are capable of achievement at the elite level (vs. 16.3% of whites), then so be it, and let's not kill ourselves, financially and morally, trying to change what can't be changed.

Fishrrman speaks:
VERY astute comment, collecting, regarding the "threshold" of [elite] group intelligence which is required so that "institutions (cultural, political, economic, legal) we hold dear are created and preserved".

At the risk of being thrown off this board, I contend that being "below this threshold" is why black Africa was never able to progress culturally beyond the tribal level -- UNTIL they had contact with cultures from beyond their continent. No doubt there were highly intelligent African tribesmen (the Bell Curve would account for as much), but their numbers were so small, and the culture they were born into so backward, that specific individuals couldn't make a "forward contribution" that would endure from one generation to the next.

Such "forward progress" as may have been made in Africa came ONLY after being "imposed" by European colonizers. And what happens when the Europeans leave, or are forced out? One needs only to look to the devolution of civilization in Zimbabwe for the answer.

I would contend that -- if Sub-Saharan Africa had never had _any_ contact with the outside world, they would be living today in virtually the same culture that they had in the year 1200 A.D. -- to wit, that of African tribespeople. Who would argue otherwise?

I would also contend that -- if Europeans had never had _any_ contact with Africa, European Judeo/Christian culture would have continued to progress pretty much the same as it has through the centuries. Who would argue otherwise?

There is indeed "an elephant in the room" that few are willing to consider re the continual "lagging" of the overall "group achievements" vis-a-vis whites and blacks in America. This invisible elephant is why over a billion dollars could be spent on inner-city schools in Kansas City (where a federal judge took the unusual step that property taxes could be raised to cover the cost), with almost NO improvement on minority achievement test scores. It is why, following one attempt after another, every one of which ends in failure, the "experts" throw up their hands and blame the failures of blacks to "achieve" -- either at the student or employment level -- on either "inadequate funding" or "white racism".

Guess they don't -- or won't -- see that elephant in the room.

As Thomas Jefferson wrote, "There is not a truth existing which I fear or would wish unknown to the whole world". We are supposed to be conservatives, seeking and accepting of the truth, even when those truths are unpleasant and unpalatable.

When will _we_ begin to speak openly about the elephant?

Cheers!
- John

139 posted on 12/01/2002 9:51:29 AM PST by Fishrrman
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To: Fishrrman
At the risk of being thrown off this board, I contend that being "below this threshold" is why black Africa was never able to progress culturally beyond the tribal level -- UNTIL they had contact with cultures from beyond their continent.

So you've never heard of the Ghana, Mali or Songhay Empires?

140 posted on 12/01/2002 10:16:08 AM PST by Pahuanui
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To: Fishrrman; All
AXUM - a trading and military empire worthy of note. Not my field of study, but IIRC: Developed in the ethiopian highlands somewhere around AD 200 or so, became christian somewhere around AD 400, had cordial relations with Byzantium, had a very far-flung trade network including Arabia and India, perhaps as far as Indonesia and China. Impressive culture, closest analogue being Polis of Sparta. Solid logistical system, strong coinage and numismatic economy. Became isolated by the rise of Islam. The Ethiopian retreat into obscurity did as much as anything else to isolate subsaharan Africa from the development of the rest of the world.
156 posted on 12/02/2002 6:13:43 AM PST by demosthenes the elder
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