Posted on 12/03/2002 10:20:17 AM PST by 45Auto
A bill to allow Ohioans to carry hidden guns if they pass a background check and a safety course is getting another turn in the Ohio Senate.
The Senate Civil Justice Committee has scheduled hearings for Tuesday through Thursday on Republican Rep. Jim Aslanides’ bill, which the House passed in March. The Senate began hearings in April.
The hearings stopped when the state appealed to the Ohio Supreme Court a ruling declaring Ohio’s concealed weapons law unconstitutional. The 1st Ohio District Court of Appeals ruled April 10 that the state’s ban violated the state Constitution’s guarantee that people can arm themselves for self-defense.
The Supreme Court, however, has kept the ban in effect while it considers the case and no ruling is expected before the end of the legislative session this month, so backers urged the Senate to resume hearings.
The bill would authorize Ohio’s sheriffs to issue permits to carry concealed weapons to residents who pass a criminal background check and take an approved safety course. Ohio would become the 44th state with some form of permission to carry hidden guns.
Should the Senate and House agree on the same bill, it likely would still face opposition from Gov. Bob Taft, who won’t sign the bill unless it has the support of law enforcement groups. The Buckeye State Sheriff’s Association supports the bill, but the Fraternal Order of Police and the State Highway Patrol — both key to Taft’s support — oppose it.
The bill has no accountability for the owner of a car that has a person with a hidden gun as a passenger and it would create a new bureaucracy for law enforcement, Patrol spokesman Lt. Gary Lewis said.
“The other issue for us is you’re talking about concealment and that’s an officer safety issue,” Lewis said.
Some of the bill’s supporters say they will oppose any attempt to add more restrictions in the Senate to gain Taft’s approval.
“We’re asking the Senate to keep the bill as it passed the House,” said Jeff Garvas, president of Ohioans for Concealed Carry. “Even the governor needs to realize we have a lawsuit going before the Supreme Court. ... The law already has been declared unconstitutional.”
Senators hope to gain police union's support to prevent a Taft veto
Tuesday, December 3, 2002
Lee Leonard
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH
Ohio Senate Republicans are making a last-ditch attempt to satisfy the Fraternal Order of Police on a concealed-weapons bill and perhaps win the approval of Gov. Bob Taft.
The senators are preparing to upgrade training requirements and give officers a fast way to check the validity of permits to carry hidden handguns.
But the backroom negotiations could alienate proponents of the legislation if they require too much of gun owners, especially a registry of permit-holders. And even the changes supported by the FOP might not be enough to get Taft to sign the bill.
House Bill 274, passed by the House on March 21, is scheduled for several hearings this week in the Senate Judiciary Committee.
Sen. Jeff Jacobson, R-Vandalia, the committee chairman, has been working behind the scenes with "interested parties'' and will release a revised version of the bill today.
"My mission was to bring the FOP on board and see what we could do with respect to the other police organizations,'' Jacobson said.
The governor has said he would veto any concealed-weapons bill that lacks support from a majority of the law-enforcement community.
Although the Buckeye State Sheriffs' Association supported the bill as it came from the House, the FOP opposed it, as did the Ohio Association of Chiefs of Police and the State Highway Patrol.
"I think we'd like to find a bill that they (the governor's office) could live with,'' Jacobson said.
While Jacobson was mum on negotiations and declined to reveal details about the new version of the bill, Michael Taylor of the FOP said his group wants more specific training requirements for permit-holders and a way for police officers to verify the validity of permits when stopping vehicles.
Taylor said he had communicated his organization's wishes to Jacobson but was unaware of what would be included in the new version of the bill.
Officers need a database for an instantaneous check of permits, he said.
"We suspect, as with other (licenses), that people will try to fake 'em.''
Taylor said the FOP wants permit applicants to show through field proficiency and a written test that they know how to shoot, maintain and store their weapon.
He said permit-holders should be required to requalify after a certain number of years.
House Bill 274 requires a gun-safety course and at least four hours of live-fire training, but no written testing and no requalification. It also exempts from the training active military personnel or reservists, retired police officers or corrections officers, and individuals who have had hunting licenses for at least three years. Taylor said some of these exemptions should be eliminated, and that between 10 and 20 hours of training would be desirable.
John Hohenwarter, Midwest spokesman for the National Rifle Association in Fairfax, Va., did not return telephone calls.
Jeff Garvas, president of Ohioans for Concealed Carry, said putting permit-holders in a database would "probably be a deal-breaker'' for proponents of the bill.
"Gun registration is unnecessary and a violation of your privacy,'' he said.
Taylor said even if the FOP's wish list of changes is adopted, his group still would not endorse the bill.
"We don't oppose the concept of conceal-carry,'' he said. "We would be neutral.''
But that apparently would not gain Taft's support.
"He's pretty much said it would have to have the OK of the law-enforcement community,'' said spokesman Joe Andrews. "Neutral is not OK.''
If the revised bill clears the Senate and the changes are accepted by the House, Taft might veto the measure, in which case lawmakers could override. But the likelihood of that is slim.
Next week is the last scheduled session planned for the year, and all bills not enacted die Dec. 31 with the formal end of the current two-year session. Conceal-carry advocates would have to start again in January.
By JOHN McCARTHY
The Associated Press
12/3/02 12:21 PM
COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) -- The state's largest police union is ready to drop its opposition to a bill to allow Ohioans to carry hidden guns, if changes the Senate is considering remain in the final version, a union spokesman said Tuesday.
The signal from the Fraternal Order of Police marked the first time the group has not opposed the idea since 1995, Columbus Police Sgt. Mike Taylor said.
The Senate Civil Justice Committee accepted a substitute version of the bill the House passed in March. It makes major changes in who may apply for a permit to carry concealed weapons and how law enforcement checks those applicants.
The bill's future, though, is still uncertain. With only five legislative days before the current session of the Legislature ends, the House would have to agree to the Senate changes and Gov. Bob Taft would either have to sign the bill or allow it to become law without his signature.
Conservatives in the House may insist on less restrictive language, and Taft opposes the House version. Taft's office did not return a phone call seeking comment on the Senate bill.
The Senate version would require fingerprinting of applicants -- an idea opposed by many House Republicans -- and would prohibit permits for those who have assaulted a police officer even if the charge was a misdemeanor, a major FOP concern.
The changes also include allowing employers -- public or private -- to dictate whether people can carry hidden guns on their premises and ordering the attorney general to produce information on when Ohio law permits a person to use deadly force. It also sets at 12 hours the length of a required gun safety course.
Sen. Jeff Jacobson, a Phillipsburg Republican and the committee's chairman, acknowledged that the substitute bill may not be popular with gun-rights and gun-control groups or their supporters in the Legislature.
"I know there will be those on both sides who will be disappointed with the compromise," Jacobson said. "We felt it was important to have the opportunity to receive strong support in the General Assembly."
Senate hearings had stopped when the state appealed to the Ohio Supreme Court a ruling declaring Ohio's concealed weapons law unconstitutional. The 1st Ohio District Court of Appeals ruled April 10 that the state's ban violated the state Constitution's guarantee that people can arm themselves for self-defense.
The Supreme Court, however, has kept the ban in effect while it considers the case and no ruling is expected before the end of the legislative session, so backers urged the Senate to resume hearings.
The bill would authorize Ohio's sheriffs to issue permits to carry concealed weapons to residents who pass a criminal background check and take an approved safety course. Ohio would become the 44th state with some form of permission to carry hidden guns.
The bill has no accountability for the owner of a car that has a person with a hidden gun as a passenger and it would create a new bureaucracy for law enforcement, State Highway Patrol spokesman Lt. Gary Lewis said.
"The other issue for us is you're talking about concealment and that's an officer safety issue," Lewis said.
Some of the bill's supporters say they will oppose any attempt to add more restrictions in the Senate to gain Taft's approval.
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On the Net:
Ohioans for Concealed Carry: http://www.ofcc.net/
State Highway Patrol:
http://www.state.oh.us/ohiostatepatrol/
by Tom Chansky, Ohio News Network
December 3, 2002
For the first time in months, a Statehouse committee will hold a hearing on a bill to allow Ohioans to carry hidden weapons if they pass a background check.
The Ohio Senate Civil Justice Committee has scheduled a series of hearings beginning Tuesday for the concealed carry legislation. The House passed a bill sponsored by Representative Jim Aslanides (R-Coshocton) in March.
Under the bill, applicants would have to pass a background check and complete a four-hour training course. The legislation must still pass in the Senate and be signed by Governor Bob Taft. Taft says he won’t approve any concealed carry legislation unless Ohio law enforcement groups approve the bill.
Lawmakers stopped hearings after they appealed a state appeals court ruling declaring the state’s current law unconstitutional. The Ohio Supreme Court has ordered Ohio’s ban on concealed weapons to remain in effect while it considers the case.
The Ohio First District Court of Appeals’ April ruling took effect only in Hamilton County. In the ruling, Presiding Judge Mark Painter wrote the right to bear weapons is addressed directly in the Ohio Constitution. Painter said that the framers of the Ohio Constitution did not need to add a separate bill of rights and that the constitution guarantees people can arm themselves for self-defense.
In 2000, a group of Hamilton County residents backed by organizations like Columbus’ People’s Rights Organization, Ohioans for Concealed Carry and the Washington-based Second Amendment Foundation, sued every law enforcement organization within Hamilton County, seeking to overturn the state’s law.
The law’s opponents say it is flawed because it does not provide equal protection for ordinary citizens. Additionally, they claim, police throughout the state do not uniformly enforce the law. Prosecutors say there is no constitutional right to carry a concealed weapon.
The Fraternal Order of Police, Ohio Highway Patrol and Ohio Association of Chiefs of Police oppose the legislation.
Ohio is one of six states that ban concealed carry.
The intent of the current law against CCW (as demonstrated by the testimony of the Ohio Highway Patrol and other officers testifing against CCW) is to prevent any form of citizen self defense. These same officers also object to "open carry" by citizens as a "Officer Safety Issue".
My complaint is ...these Officers care more for "their" personal saftey than they do for the safety of the citizens they have sworn to serve.
"The other issue for us is you're talking about concealment and that's an officer safety issue," Lewis said.
Well, I am also concerned for the lives and safety of our officers. but no more than I am for the lives and safety of my neighbors and fellow citizens. When will the police realize "Us" means everyone, citizens and police? Any citizen who goes to the trouble of obtaining a permit for Concealed carry is not a safety issue unless "us" means only the police and if this is true to quote POGO "We have met the enemy and he is ....US"
By the way, if you are not a member of "the Kentucky Coalition to Carry Concealed" you might check out their website at KC3.com , the site offers great news updates and reciprocity news for Kentuckians.
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