[dirtboy]

Poverty rates can be another factor. First number, percent in poverty, second number, murder rate per 100,000:

MA - 9.3 percent, 2.3
NJ - 8.5 percent, 4
RI - 11.9 percent, 3.7
HI - 10.7 percent, 2.6

AL - 16.1 percent, 8.5
Ark - 15.8 percent, 5.5
LA - 19.6 percent, 11.2
MI - 19.9 percent, 9.9
WV - 17.9 percent, 2.2
WY - 11.4 percent, 1.8

So, with the exception of West Virginia, the poverty rate has a fair correlation to the relative murder rate.

In other words, there are many, many factors that better model the murder rate than gun ownership.

[Gumlegs]

So, with the exception of West Virginia, the poverty rate has a fair correlation to the relative murder rate.

The reason West Virginia is an exception is that it looks like only one person a year is murdered. Everything in the state is named "Robert C. Byrd."

[spunkets]

Poverty rates have nothing to do with it. That would mean that folks were not moral agents at all. Look at WV and WY. Both have the same low murder rates, guns and poverty rates that vary by a factor of ~2.

WV - 17.9 percent, 2.2
WY - 11.4 percent, 1.8

" there are many, many factors that better model the murder rate than gun ownership"

That's right. It's quite simple fundamentally, and has been known for a long time. It's the idea that men are moral agents. The idea that men are random variables is an authoritarian idea.

These 2 States have essentially the same murder rate and ~2X diff in the poverty rate. NJ is an authoritarian State with no guns.

Ark - 15.8 percent, 5.5
NJ - 8.5 percent, 4