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To: xzins
As a Christian bound by scripture to follow human laws which offer no offense, I struggle with determining if this "marriage license" requirement is an intrusion in God's domain. I've come to believe that it is.

As one familiar with God's law, I guess you understand that he made us Male and Female and that he ordained also that conjugal relations between the male and female be fruitful.

Softening up the heteros with the Birth Control most Christian couples these days consider their "right" as part of Planning their families, the State has for generations been obscuring the apparent differences between sex partners desirous (or not) of children and the Father and Mother -- Husband and Wife -- who not only form but obligate themselves to a family.

Why?

For all the useful idiot rant of the Libertarians and others, the fact is that the basic human condition is as Family, not the rabid individualism that informs our culture ... particularly our shrinks and sex therapists.

It is the family (as patterned after the Trinity) on which are based not only our most enduring bonds as human beings but also our sense of equal dignity despite the separate persons and different roles of family members and the notions of nationhood, much less community.

In destroying the family -- particularly the eradication of patriarchal authority in exchange for a Democratized Collective of individuals -- the State accomplishes two things:

(1) they weaken us absolutely, causing most citizens -- single mothers, impoverished, insane, failing, elderly who need Medicare, etc. -- to rely on the State instead of their families in the name of "independence"

(2) they usurp both Family and Faith as the source of all rights and justice. As arbiter and creator of our rights (to housing, to abortion, to assisted suicide, to all manner of perversion and even for-profit Free Speech porn featuring children ... so long as it's faked), they supplant and render meaningless and "private" the notion of the Creator as recognized in our Declaration as the source and guarantor of our human dignity and liberty.

It infuriates me, really, that so many folks get caught up in the sound and fury of gay rights, corporate benefits and taxation and fail to recognize that it's the marriage license which limited the State's ability to redefine marriage.

By restricting the marriage license to only those unions essentially (if not actually) capable of forming families, the integrity and meaning of marriage was preserved.

Marriage is not just a license for sex, self-fulfillment and economic benefit for the parties. It is also about the children born of that relationship. As an institution protected from the State's interference by the parameters of marriage license restrictions -- marriage offered some measure of justice for and recognization of the children naturally a part of the Family born of conjugal union.

Justice must needs be premised on reality ... on True and Enduring things.


62 posted on 12/10/2002 10:56:37 PM PST by Askel5
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To: Askel5
BUMP!!!

GSA(P)

63 posted on 12/11/2002 9:09:55 AM PST by John O
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To: Askel5
the fact is that the basic human condition is as Family, not the rabid individualism that informs our culture

Interesting. Are you saying it has been, or it should be, or something else? Jesus said no marriage in heaven. Does the same apply to a perfect world?

Prehistorical and historical evidence suggests that people first lived in kin groups (for 200K years), then extended families within tribes(neolithic structures had room for cousins and uncles but also separate sleeping quarters), then (in parts of the world) nuclear families. The Individual fits the trend. Tribal cultures today, who have no separate word for cousin and brother, would scoff at our nuclear families.

70 posted on 12/11/2002 12:13:25 PM PST by monkey
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To: Askel5; xzins; RnMomof7
It infuriates me, really, that so many folks get caught up in the sound and fury of gay rights, corporate benefits and taxation and fail to recognize that it's the marriage license which limited the State's ability to redefine marriage.

Just out of curiousity...

Unless one abdicates, to the State, the Right to define Marriage in the first place -- how exactly does the Marriage License "limit" the State's power to re-define Marriage??

Your argument amounts to a claim that "charter schools limit the State's ability to redefine education". That may be true enough in its case (that is, until the homosexual lobby secures enough votes to require new mandates for the Charters, to continue the analogy)... but only if you have already whored out the Right of Education to the State in the first place.

I mean, sure, if you are going to begin the conversation by assuming that the State has the Right to "define" Marriage, I can see how it could be argued that Marriage Licenses would "limit" the State's power to "re-define" marriage.

But, m'dear.... Why on earth should Christians "render unto Caesar" the Right to "define" Marriage in the first place?!?!

Revenge of the Begged Question.

71 posted on 12/11/2002 2:39:04 PM PST by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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To: Askel5
Hey, you're stealing my song.:)
72 posted on 12/11/2002 3:52:08 PM PST by independentmind
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