[buffyt]

And a friend of mine last night tried to convince me that it is fine to block blacks and women from golf course memberships, saying it is a private club. I told her many restaurants are private clubs now too, would she like it if they were all White Men Only, as golf courses have historically been... she was silent. Rosa Parks refused to sit in the back of the bus for a reason. She is my hero. I am a white woman with black slave ancestors. Refusing to let blacks, or females, or native Americans, or Asians, or any other group join a public club like a golf course or restaurant makes my blood boil. I am 12th cousin of George Washington, cousin of Dolly Madison, cousin of Mary Todd Lincoln, cousin of Isaac Ryan who died at Alamo... I think I have the blood of revolution, patriotic blood, and blood of truth and justice cursing through my veins. The Taliban is the only organized group that hates women as much as the men who would refuse to allow women to join a golf course. Women only got the vote in 1920s. Women only got to enroll in Texas A&M in the 1970s. Why are men so afraid of having women around anyway? Bunch of Misogynists!

[Phantom Lord]

Refusing to let blacks, or females, or native Americans, or Asians, or any other group join a public club like a golf course or restaurant makes my blood boil.

Thats all fine and dandy, but Augusta National is NOT a public club.

Recently, Corey Eversons chain of fitness centers for WOMEN ONLY was sued for not allowing men. Ms. Everson and her company won and retained their right, as a private enterprise to exclude men as members.

[Phantom Lord]

Women only got to enroll in Texas A&M in the 1970s.

And there are still enumerable women only colleges that refuse entry to men. Including Hillary!'s alma matter.

[Bikers4Bush]

I don't care who your cousins were or what boils in your blood it's called freedom of association and whether you like it or not it's a protected right.

It has nothing to do with men being "afraid" of women it has to do with asserting rights.

Either you believe in the constitution and what it says or you don't. There is no middle ground.

[Bikers4Bush]

I don't care who your cousins were or what boils in your blood it's called freedom of association and whether you like it or not it's a protected right.

It has nothing to do with men being "afraid" of women it has to do with asserting rights.

Either you believe in the constitution and what it says or you don't. There is no middle ground.

[LibertarianInExile]

What an obvious agitprop. Go play at DU.

Oh, by the way, Ms. Abzug, PRIVATE CLUBS THAT ARE RESTAURANTS ARE ABLE TO BAN YOU JUST LIKE AUGUSTA, AND YOUR IDIOTIC POST IS FURTHER EVIDENCE THAT THEY SHOULD.

I hate golf, but I'll be watching the Masters for sure, now, just to patronize their advertisers!

[Bikers4Bush]

"The Taliban is the only organized group that hates women as much as the men who would refuse to allow women to join a golf course."

And that line right there is quite possibly the most idiotic thing I have ever seen written.

[FreeTally]

The Taliban is the only organized group that hates women as much as the men who would refuse to allow women to join a golf course.

Oh, good grief. White men are the only "group" of individuals that peopel such as yourself get pissed at when they form their own private organizations.

[doug from upland]

My wife belongs to an all-female health club. Should I sue to join and ruin it for them? Women are allowed to play at beautiful Augusta. Can't men or women have a club just for themselves?

[AnAmericanMother]

You must have intimidated the heck out of your friend - no wonder she was silent. She just didn't see any point arguing with somebody who has their mind made up, closed, locked, and sealed.

You have been told over and over on OTHER threads, for weeks if not months, about the right to association guaranteed in the Constitution, as well as the different between public and private accommodations. Women's colleges, women's bridge clubs, women's exercise salons, Girl Scouts, etc. are all private clubs and have the right to select their membership. The government is not permitted by the Constitution to infringe on the rights of individual Americans to choose who they want to hang around with. You don't like it, start your own club. That's what freedom is all about.

The Augusta National is a very small, very exclusive, very private club that most MEN cannot join. Bill Gates was turned away for years because he had the temerity to ASK to be invited. . . . just not done. There may be 2-3 women who have the qualifications, the interest, the golfing ability, and the money to join. As Mr. Johnson said, when the right person comes along the time will come, but it will be on Augusta National's schedule, not on the demands of some screeching harridan looking for national face time and a shot in the arm for her moribund feminist coven.

[ikka]

I will pay more attention to you when you post a similar screed condemning blacks-only clubs like the Congressional Black Caucus.

[martin gibson]

WAIT A MINUTE -

Please do NOT allow our fuzzy wemyn and NYT neo-Stalinist buddies to Slanderously frame this argument as a 'feminist' issue when it is properly defined as clearly a racist attempt by the New York Times to prevent Tiger Woods from participating in the Master's tournament solely because he describes himself as 'non-white'.

I could really use some help down here in the language war. Realistically, however, I am waiting for the gentlemen and ladies in the debating society to quietly smile and politely wait their turn until they are blind-sided and black-jacked by the hobnailed National Socialist dykes who are surely waiting for them.

We need to define the argument repeatedly, vigorously and unambiguously.

But, of course, we won't and we will sit there stupidly 'tut-tut'ing while shrill, strident screaming hairy wemyn with their puppets and placards are pulled from the gallery by armed and uniformed 'oppressor pigs' wherever the television cameras are placed.

A rat is a dog is a pig is a feminist (...with profound apologies to rats, dogs and pigs...). --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[martin gibson]

WAIT A MINUTE -

Please do NOT allow our fuzzy wemyn and NYT neo-Stalinist buddies to Slanderously frame this argument as a 'feminist' issue when it is properly defined as clearly a racist attempt by the New York Times to prevent Tiger Woods from participating in the Master's tournament solely because he describes himself as 'non-white'.

I could really use some help down here in the language war. Realistically, however, I am waiting for the gentlemen and ladies in the debating society to quietly smile and politely wait their turn until they are blind-sided and black-jacked by the hobnailed National Socialist dykes who are surely waiting for them.

We need to define the argument repeatedly, vigorously and unambiguously.

But, of course, we won't and we will sit there stupidly 'tut-tut'ing while shrill, strident screaming hairy wemyn with their puppets and placards are pulled from the gallery by armed and uniformed 'oppressor pigs' wherever the television cameras are placed.

A rat is a dog is a pig is a feminist (...with profound apologies to rats, dogs and pigs...). --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[okie01]

"Refusing to let blacks, or females, or native Americans, or Asians, or any other group join a public club like a golf course or restaurant makes my blood boil."

Buffy, it's not a public golf course, it's a private club. Should the Girl Scouts, the YWCA or the DAR be forced to accept men?

[jigsaw]

Why are men so afraid of having women around anyway?

Well, the tone of your entire post certainly might be a clue for one of the reasons.

[A2J]

I am 12th cousin of George Washington, cousin of Dolly Madison, cousin of Mary Todd Lincoln, cousin of Isaac Ryan who died at Alamo...

Obviously, you're the black sheep(le) of the family.

[Grig]

"would she like it if they were all White Men Only, as golf courses have historically been"

Irrelevant. If there are enough people who did like it, the PRIVATE business would continue to cater to that small market. If it isn't popular, the business will die from natural causes. It's about people's freedom to gather as they please, not about having everyone pleased with you.

"Rosa Parks refused to sit in the back of the bus for a reason."

A bus is a public utility. If Rosa Parks jumped into my car uninvited as I sat at a red light I'de kick her but right back out onto the sidewalk and it would have nothing to do with the color of her skin.

"Refusing to let blacks, or females, or native Americans, or Asians, or any other group join a public club like a golf course or restaurant makes my blood boil."

That isn't what is happening. Agusta is a PRIVATE golf course and they have every right to decide who is and isn't allowed on THEIR property. It doesn't matter if you think their requirements are foolish, wrong, immoral or not, it is still their right. It is also YOUR right to set up your own private course that allows only women, or only black or only left handed people with green eyes and a club foot if that's what you want.

"I am 12th cousin of George Washington, cousin of Dolly Madison, cousin of Mary Todd Lincoln, cousin of Isaac Ryan who died at Alamo... "

So what.

"The Taliban is the only organized group that hates women as much as the men who would refuse to allow women to join a golf course. "

OK, you are officialy insane now. Making a woman golf on some other course is just a notch below blowing their brains out for reading a book? Get help.

"Why are men so afraid of having women around anyway?"

Take a long look in the mirror and ask yourself why men would like to be able to get away from you. Fear has nothing to do with it, and there are plenty of women-only colleges and groups around.

[PBRSTREETGANG]

I am 12th cousin of George Washington, cousin of Dolly Madison, cousin of Mary Todd Lincoln, cousin of Isaac Ryan who died at Alamo...

Apparently even the best of families have that one cousin who's a little bit "off".

[ken5050]

FWIW, I, for one, would be happy to second your nomination to Augusta.....

[Viet Vet in Augusta GA]

Buffy, Buffy, Buffy.

There is a tremendous legal, moral and ethical difference between public accomodations and private clubs/gatherings. Augusta National (of which I am not a member) is the latter. As long as Wellesley and women's only fitness clubs exist, you've got to allow the men to do the same.

And it is misleading rhetoric to say that because A opposes B, A is "afraid of B". A may choose not to associate with B, reject B, dislike B,...etc. but it ain't fear. This is like calling opposition to homosexual behavior "homophobia" (= fear of homos). 'tain't so.

You need to clean up your logic and put your troubles behind you. How you lead your life means everything; what your grandfather did is not going to help you.