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Lawmakers back bill on alien licenses
Washington Times ^ | 12/18/02 | Vaishali Honawar

Posted on 12/17/2002 11:19:19 PM PST by kattracks

Edited on 07/12/2004 3:59:42 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

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To: Ligeia
>>The clerk denied his applica- tion because his passport showed no evidence of a U.S. visa<<

Why wasn't he arrested on the spot?

51 posted on 01/26/2003 7:33:42 AM PST by Jim Noble
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To: Jim Noble
Excellent question that I hope there's a reasonable answer for.
52 posted on 01/26/2003 7:54:55 AM PST by Ligeia
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To: Ligeia
Obviously, I know that there is enormous resistance on the part of the political and government class to taking the simple steps which would resolve this problem permanently.

What I don't understand, is why?

Stopping illegal immigration, guarding the borders, and eliminating the terrorist army in our midst is enormously popular, according to polls.

And no American citizens are against it, at least not so that you'd notice.

Politicians are normally quite sensitive to polls and vox pop.

What's different about this issue?

53 posted on 01/26/2003 7:58:31 AM PST by Jim Noble
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To: Jim Noble
"In my state..."

There's the entire issue in a nut shell.

Immigration is a Federal matter which deeply affects the States. What I see coming, is a very unconservative argument in favor of some sort of a national ID card, because it would be more expedient than attacking 50 different State legislatures, and trying to achieve equal results from State to State. In that case, conservative principles which would normally reject such an idea, would have to make compromises for the sake of solving this issue.

54 posted on 01/26/2003 8:13:22 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Ever So Humble Banana Republican)
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To: grania
"Everybody would have to have their birth certificate for this, just like for a job application or security check."

I'm not sure I understand what you meant to say here. I have never been asked for my birth certificate whan interviewing for a job, not only that, but it would create a problem for naturalized American citizens whose birth certificate is from a different nation.

There's also the fact that birth certificates offer nothing in the way of proof as to whether the individual presenting it as proof it is actually the person in the document. They are also very easy to counterfit.

55 posted on 01/26/2003 8:18:41 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Ever So Humble Banana Republican)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
I'm not sure I understand what you meant to say here. I have never been asked for my birth certificate whan interviewing for a job, not only that, but it would create a problem for naturalized American citizens whose birth certificate is from a different nation.

I am all the time when applying to work in schools. The easiest thing to use is that birth certificate. If the person is a naturalized citizen, they can bring along proof of citizenship. Again, no big deal.

There's also the fact that birth certificates offer nothing in the way of proof as to whether the individual presenting it as proof it is actually the person in the document. They are also very easy to counterfit.

Then, again, you do what I have to do all the time. I also have a picture ID (driver's license, passport, college ID, etc.) for proof. Anyone who wants to buy a beer or a cigarette has to have that for proof.

It's a small price to pay to get the criminals who are in the country illegally deported. (And anyone here illegally is a criminal). And, anyone who is here illegally or not proud enough of their citizenship to prove it should leave the country immediately.

We don't have any need for the immigrant population right now. What we do need is to secure the borders and stabilize the population. There are plenty of people to do the work...aging and retiring baby boomers who lost their retirement money in the stock market fiasco will provide a wonderful labor source.

56 posted on 01/26/2003 8:45:44 AM PST by grania ("Won't get fooled again")
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To: grania
"And, anyone who is here illegally or not proud enough of their citizenship to prove it should leave the country immediately."

We disagree here, there's nothing in the US Constitution that gives the Federal government the power to ask citizens to produce proof of citizenship on demand. We need to find a way to achieve the same results without encroaching on the constitutional freedoms of the citizenry in general. So, I see no compelling reason which would dictate my "showing pride" in my citizenship equating to producing documents on demand for the authorities, that's not what this country is all about, and my pride in being American commands me to fight against such power being given to the Federal government.

57 posted on 01/26/2003 8:57:04 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Ever So Humble Banana Republican)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
"We disagree"

We do, but you are always informed and passionate about your views and present them in a dignified way. I respect that.

I see a terrible threat to our real freedoms...movement, speech, activities, etc. that is far worse than the inconvenience of having to have papers necessary to prove my citizenship. The best way to save those other freedoms, which are potentially compromised by some of the Homeland Security initiatives, is to make the nation whole again. That means closing up those porous borders and stabilizing the population. We're at a defense, moral, economic, and cultural crisis. We have a few generations of people from which most of the leaders who emerge don't know sacrifice or hardship. They think everything can be solved by applying another textbook answer.

If we aren't more tolerant of the small things (like being able to prove who we are and if we belong here), we lose the big things. Right now, the priority is saving the nation, its values, its security, its culture, and its laws.

58 posted on 01/26/2003 11:32:48 AM PST by grania ("Won't get fooled again")
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To: grania
We do, but you are always informed and passionate about your views and present them in a dignified way. I respect that.

Thank you, it's nice to have a dialogue with someone rather than a flame war.

"If we aren't more tolerant of the small things (like being able to prove who we are and if we belong here), we lose the big things."

It seems that we are losing the big things one small step at a time, and that would be one more step. Take as an example gun registration, no big deal at the surface, or so it would seem, but it was mandatory gun registration that provided the database for Hitler and Castro to round up all guns, and disarm the citizenry after seizing power.

Does gun registration make sense at the surface? It certainly does, as it would provide a readily available database to track down ownership of guns used during crimes. Am I opposed to it? Absolutely. The remedy could have far deadlier consequences than the disease.

I *PINGED* you and Jim Noble to what I have been able to come up as a long-term solution to the illegal immigrant program, it's an article titled "Ants".

59 posted on 01/26/2003 1:04:50 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Ever So Humble Banana Republican)
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To: Sabertooth

Jan 29, 2003

Bill forcing illegal aliens to pay out-of-state tuition advances



RICHMOND, Va. (AP) _ The House of Delegates gave preliminary approval Wednesday to a bill requiring illegal aliens to pay out-of-state tuition to attend Virginia public colleges.

A final House vote on Del. Thelma Drake's bill is scheduled for Thursday. The legislation is backed by Attorney General Jerry Kilgore, who said in a September opinion that state-supported colleges should deny admission to illegal aliens. Those who are enrolled should be charged the higher out-of-state tuition, he wrote.

Drake, R-Norfolk, said the federal government also denies financial aid to students who are in the country illegally.

Del. L. Karen Darner, D-Arlington, said the measure punishes children who had no control over being brought to the United States by their parents. Most of those children attend public elementary and secondary schools and are unaware of their "undocumented status" when they enroll in college, she said.

"These kids have considered themselves residents of Virginia," Darner said. "Every day they pledge allegiance to the United States."

Del. Jack Reid, R-Henrico, spoke for the bill.

"We don't even allow in-state rates to those in the armed forces stationed in Virginia," he said.

Reid sponsored legislation to bar enrollment of illegal aliens in Virginia's public colleges, and Darner proposed a bill allowing them to pay in-state tuition. Those bills were tabled by a subcommittee for further study.

Virginia college officials do not track the number of illegal aliens in the system.



RTD

60 posted on 01/30/2003 3:46:55 PM PST by Ligeia
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House wants out-of-state tuition for illegal aliens
Associated Press
© January 30, 2003
Last updated: 5:29 PM

RICHMOND -- The House of Delegates passed a bill Thursday requiring illegal aliens to pay out-of-state tuition to attend Virginia public colleges.

The bill, sponsored by Republican Del. Thelma Drake of Norfolk, passed 88-10 with no debate.

The measure is backed by Attorney General Jerry Kilgore, who said in a September opinion that state-supported colleges should deny admission to illegal aliens. Those who are enrolled should be charged the higher out-of-state tuition, he wrote.

Opponents of the bill have argued that it punishes children who attended public schools and who had no say over being brought to the United States by their parents.

Supporters of the legislation say Virginia should not subsidize the higher education of people who are in the country illegally.

Two other bills dealing with the issue were tabled by a House of Delegates committee earlier in the session. One would deny illegal aliens admission to Virginia public colleges while the other would allow them to attend and pay in-state tuition.



© 2003 HamptonRoads.com/PilotOnline.com
source
61 posted on 01/30/2003 4:35:44 PM PST by Ligeia
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To: bmwcyle
Helmet repeal bills move on

Jan 31, 2003

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) _ Two proposals to loosen restrictions on wearing helmets on motorcycles advanced out of a House committee Friday.

One bill, submitted by Sen. Scott Lingamfelter, R-Prince William, would make helmets mandatory only for riders under the age of 21. It passed on a 12-7 vote in the Militia, Police and Public Safety Committee.

The other bill, sponsored by Sen. Sam Nixon, R-Chesterfield, would relax the state's helmet law on all scenic highways and Virginia byways. The bill failed by one vote on the House floor last year.

It moved out of committee on a 13-5 vote.

Law enforcement and health care officials spoke against both measures, arguing that increased freedom for bikers means more deadly accidents.

"They need to realize they're also affecting the lives of firefighters, public safety workers and EMS workers," said Ed Rhodes of the Virginia Firefighters Association. "People are going to have to come and pick the cracked coconut off the street."
http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/vaapwire/MGB8WPPMMBD.html

Possible good news for you?
62 posted on 01/31/2003 1:41:34 PM PST by Ligeia
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To: kattracks

Jan 31, 2003

About Immigration



This newspaper favors immigration, and lots of it. Immigrants built America into the great nation it is. The other day the adjacent space carried a moving letter about just how varied our polyglot society has become. But supporting immigration does not require supporting illegal immigration, any more than supporting gun rights requires supporting gun crime.

Measures before the General Assembly would add some common sense to the Commonwealth's approach to foreign-born residents. Both emanate from the office of Attorney General Jerry Kilgore.

The first would charge full tuition to illegal immigrants attending state colleges. Such students should not be attending state colleges at all, given that they should not be in Virginia in the first place. But if they are to attend, at the very least they should not be able to do so at cut rates. (A better law would deny enrollment in any Virginia college to any student unable to prove he/she is legally here.)

The second would ensure that Virginia drivers' licenses be granted only to non-citizens with permanent resident-alien status or valid non-immigrant visas. The bill also would make the expiration of the license coincide with the expiration of the alien's documents. Kilgore notes that seven of the 19 terrorists who attacked on September 11 held fraudulent Virginia drivers' licenses.

The bills are not anti-immigrant. Immigrants who come to this country through the proper procedures should be welcomed with open arms by the descendants of immigrants who preceded them. The bills target illegal entry and potential terrorism - and deserve swift passage into law.

RTD


63 posted on 01/31/2003 2:07:07 PM PST by Ligeia
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To: kattracks

Warner waffles on driver's licenses

House Editorial
Published February 12, 2003

Alarmed by the fact that seven of the 19 terrorists who killed 3,000 Americans on September 11 were carrying Virginia ID cards even though they didn't live in the state, many members of the General Assembly are supporting legislation that would change the state's absurdly liberal standards for obtaining driver's licenses. The current law permits foreign nationals to renew their licenses without proving that they are here legally. The lion's share of the blame lies with Gov. Mark Warner, who has raised relatively trivial complaints about the legislation. The good news is that, even though the Warner administration has decided not to participate, the House and Senate have risen to the occasion.

Despite intense opposition from immigrant-rights organizations and Hispanic activists (increasingly prominent constituencies for Mr. Warner's embattled Democratic Party), the House of Delegates voted 80-20 last week in favor of legislation sponsored by Delegate David Albo, Fairfax County Republican, which would require that foreign nationals present such documents as a license or permanent-residency card when they apply for or renew their Virginia driver's licenses. In the Senate, Sen. Jay O'Brien, Fairfax Republican, has fought hard for a similar bill, which could come up for floor debate next week. In an effort to make the measure palatable to the governor, Mr. O'Brien has reluctantly agreed to postpone implementation of his own bill until July 1, 2005.

Kevin Hall, a spokesman for Mr. Warner, told The Washington Times yesterday that the governor's main problem with the O'Brien-Albo legislation is his belief that Virginia should not act on its own, but should instead wait until the National Governors Association comes forward with its own proposal, something that could happen as early as next month.

While all of this has been taking place, the Warner administration has sent DMV bureaucrats to tell legislators that the measure would cost too much. In December, the administration claimed that the legislation would cost about $1 million to implement. Now, however, DMV puts the price tag at $5.6 million a year. Even assuming that the latter figure is true (a point Mr. O'Brien sharply questions), it is ridiculous to say that the money can't be found in the $20 billion annual state budget.

Meanwhile, over in Maryland, where illegal aliens cannot obtain driver's licenses, a group of Prince George's County politicians led by State's Attorney Glenn Ivey, County Executive Jack Johnson and the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, Delegate Joseph Vallario, are working with Hispanic groups to make it possible for illegal aliens to get driver's licenses. But a spokesman for Gov. Robert Ehrlich yesterday said the governor is opposed to the idea.

Mr. Warner would do well to follow the example of Mr. Ehrlich and responsible Virginia politicians from both parties by making it clear that driver's licenses should only be granted to people who are in the United States legally.

Washington Times


64 posted on 02/13/2003 2:05:50 PM PST by Ligeia (So sound the bugles. The cavalry is coming.)
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To: kattracks

Warner asks for time to study alien tuition

Mary Shaffrey
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

Published February 14, 2003

RICHMOND - Gov. Mark R. Warner said yesterday he needs more time to consider - and perhaps amend - a bill requiring illegal aliens to pay out-of-state rates to attend Virginia public colleges and universities.

"The more appropriate measure would have been to have this bill studied more," he said. "I [also] know there is probably going to be some other efforts to amend this bill."

The bill is sponsored by Delegate Thelma Drake, Newport News Republican, and passed the House last month. The Senate Health and Education Committee approved the bill yesterday; it is scheduled for a full Senate vote next week. Mrs. Drake said the bill is needed to clarify an opinion issued by Attorney General Jerry W. Kilgore in September.

A group of supporters thinks Virginia should not offer a discount education to potential terrorist sympathizers.

"It is the illegal alien community that allows sleeper terrorist cells to hide in the open," said Erin Anderson of the Virginia Coalition Against Terrorism. Mrs. Drake doubts most illegal aliens in public schools are terrorist sympathizers but thinks the commonwealth should not subsidize their education.

"It is possible that there are sleeper cells in these communities, but it´s a relatively small number," she said. "The problem is once they graduate, they cannot get jobs because they are here illegally. And all that state money for their education has gone to waste."

The cost of in-state tuition is substantially less expensive than out-of-state tuition. For example, a three-credit class at Virginia Tech costs in-state students $480.24 and out-of-state students $1,682.49. In the Northern Virginia Community College system, a three-credit class costs $169.69 for in-state students and $607.41 for out-of-state students.

Mr. Kilgore, who supports Mrs. Drake´s bill and is also a Republican, said every in-state student in a public college or university costs Virginia taxpayers about $6,028 a year.

Critics say many of the illegal aliens have worked for years and paid income taxes.

Andres Tobar, a chairman with Immigrants Educational Rights Coalition based in Arlington, said it´s unfair to make a student pay Virginia taxes and four times the tuition paid by in-state students.

In response, Ms. Anderson said nobody is speaking up for the military families that, as she must, pay out-of-state rates while stationed in Virginia.

"This is demoralizing for members of the military community," she said. "There is no one to speak for us, yet all these pro-immigrant groups have these hired guns."

The exact number of Virginia students that would be affected by such legislation is not clear. However, about 66 of them last year were enrolled primarily in community colleges around the commonwealth.

State Sen. Benjamin J. Lambert, III, Richmond Democrat, said that because of the low number, the additional benefit of educating these students was worth the cost.

"If they don´t get an education they are going to wind up on the street costing us more money," he said.

State Sen. William T. Bolling, Mechanicsville Republican, said in-state tuition is not a right.

"The purpose of in-state tuition is that it is a benefit of citizenship of Virginia," he said.

Legislation that would ban a rarely used late-term abortion procedure won final House passage yesterday and cleared a Senate panel where abortion bills have perished in the past.

The Senate Education and Health Committee also approved legislation that would require that parents give their consent before their minor daughters undergo abortions, but killed a bill that would have required abortion clinics to make prohibitively expensive renovations.

  By a veto-proof 73-26 vote and with little debate, the House passed Sen. Stephen D. Newman´s bill that charges doctors who kill a fetus that has partially emerged from the birth canal with a felony punishable by 10 years in prison. If it becomes law, the measure would target doctors who deliberately kill a fetus after its head or, in the event of a feet-first birth, its legs and trunk up to the umbilical cord are outside the birth canal.

  The Senate panel endorsed Delegate Robert G. Marshall´s bill on a 9-5 vote. Mr. Marshall, Prince William County Republican, said the bill differs from similar legislation he offered last year that would have outlawed a procedure abortion foes call "partial-birth abortion." Mr. Warner vetoed it on grounds that it contained no exception to protect the mother´s health.

This year´s bill protects fetuses in the process of an actual birth, not abortion, Mr. Marshall said.

Without debate, the committee also voted 9-6 to advance Delegate Richard H. Black´s bill to require parental consent for minors to have abortions. The House approved the bill 70-29 on Feb. 1.

The committee, however, voted 8-7 to kill a measure abortion rights advocates said would have forced all but one of Virginia´s 19 abortion clinics to close. The bill, also by Mr. Marshall, would have held clinics to the same specifications as outpatient surgical centers.

A proposal to create a specialty anti-abortion license plate was killed and then resurrected in a Senate committee yesterday.

The Senate Transportation Committee voted 7-6 against the plate with two Republican members and the bill´s sponsor, Delegate Richard H. Black, absent from the room. Sen. Marty E. Williams, Newport News Republican and the committee chairman, revived the bill out of deference to Mr. Black, who was in the House chamber at the time of the vote.

  The measure passed on an 8-6 vote the second time.

Mr. Black´s plate features two children´s faces drawn in crayon above the words "Choose Life." It is intended to promote adoption, he said, with a portion of funds from sales of the plate going to private, nonprofit agencies that provide adoption services.

The bill prohibits distribution of money to abortion clinics.

Legislation toughening Virginia´s seat belt law passed by one vote in the House yesterday, but the victory for the bill´s advocates could be short-lived.

  Delegate Joe T. May, Loudoun County Republican, said he expected opponents of the bill to persuade someone who voted for it to ask for reconsideration of the 49-48 vote on the House floor today.

  The bill would allow police to stop and ticket drivers for not buckling their seat belts. Current law allows police to write a seat belt ticket only if the motorist is stopped for another violation.

WT


65 posted on 02/14/2003 3:15:41 AM PST by Ligeia
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