Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Rhetoric and Decorum on the Web
18 Dec 02 | TPartyType

Posted on 12/18/2002 9:04:40 AM PST by TPartyType

After getting frustrated with the incessant flaming, and rather degenerative quality of discourse here at FR, I put together |this web page|.

Decorum is the hallmark of civil discourse. Many people who participate in online discourse show a deplorable lack of decorum, IMO. I don't really care what goes on at other sites, but I'd sure like this forum to engage in civil discourse. Why? Because I believe conservatives should value it, and I know the founding fathers considered civility an indispensible support to free society. |Read this|

Enjoy the links!

just a minute here . . .

Okay. . . . Flame away!


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS:
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-55 next last

1 posted on 12/18/2002 9:04:40 AM PST by TPartyType
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: TPartyType
I can't fault your desire for a degree of civility, but... you are of course aware that there were FISTFIGHTS at the constitutional convention in Philadelphia, yes?
2 posted on 12/18/2002 9:08:23 AM PST by demosthenes the elder
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TPartyType
"Compromise is the art of saying "nice doggie" until you can find a big rock."

I have no idea who said that (or something like it) but I keep it posted on my fridge.

3 posted on 12/18/2002 9:15:15 AM PST by Bikers4Bush
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: demosthenes the elder
But did they use Marquis de Queensbury rules? :o)
4 posted on 12/18/2002 9:16:01 AM PST by TPartyType
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Bikers4Bush
check out the links, friend, then you'll have some more stuff to put on your fridge!
5 posted on 12/18/2002 9:18:16 AM PST by TPartyType
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: demosthenes the elder
Drunken brawls at that!
6 posted on 12/18/2002 9:19:14 AM PST by conservativemusician
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: TPartyType
Franklin's Motion for Prayer at the Constitutional Convention
7 posted on 12/18/2002 9:20:06 AM PST by Remedy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: TPartyType
Good idea. Bookmarked.
8 posted on 12/18/2002 9:20:52 AM PST by johniegrad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TPartyType
I like this website for describing the various types of flamers.

<|:)~

9 posted on 12/18/2002 9:21:12 AM PST by martin_fierro
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Remedy
Thanks for the link!
10 posted on 12/18/2002 9:22:53 AM PST by TPartyType
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: martin_fierro
kewl! Handy glossary!
11 posted on 12/18/2002 9:24:29 AM PST by TPartyType
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: TPartyType
My father told me once "It is nice to be important, but it is more important to be nice." He was such a wise and wonderful man.
12 posted on 12/18/2002 9:24:47 AM PST by Quilla
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TPartyType
This ought to be a good one. :-)

Bump for later reading.

13 posted on 12/18/2002 9:26:15 AM PST by Polybius
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TPartyType
I like the Franklin quote:

"Whenever I was solicited to insert any thing of that kind, and the Writers pleaded as they generally did, the Liberty of the Press........."

We hear that plea a lot!
14 posted on 12/18/2002 9:33:35 AM PST by SBprone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Bikers4Bush
"'Compromise is the art of saying "nice doggie" until you can find a big rock.'"

It was Will Rogers, and you have it wrong:

"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock." - Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)

And I will spare myself the effort of flaming you, unworthy smelly and ignorant biker.

--Boris

15 posted on 12/18/2002 9:33:38 AM PST by boris
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: boris
Diplomacy sounds much better anyway.

Thanks!

16 posted on 12/18/2002 9:35:20 AM PST by Bikers4Bush
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Quilla
"My father told me once "It is nice to be important, but it is more important to be nice." He was such a wise and wonderful man."

He was also a plagiarist. In this case, he stole it from Elwood P. Dowd (Jimmy Stewart) who delivered the line in the movie "Harvey", and did it much better.

Here is the correct quote:

"My mother used to say to me, 'Elwood'--she always called me Elwood--'Elwood, in this world you must be oh-so clever, or oh-so pleasant.' For years I was clever. I'd recommend pleasant--and you may quote me." -- as Elwood P. Dowd in HARVEY.

--Boris

17 posted on 12/18/2002 9:37:08 AM PST by boris
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Bikers4Bush; TPartyType
"Compromise is the art of saying "nice doggie" until you can find a big rock."

It was Will Rogers and he said, "Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggie' until you can find a big rock." How true.

TPartyType: you're going to find yourself as an internet nanny, constantly slapping hands and saying, "No, no, be good". The internet is far from perfect because it's made up of people, not all of whom would behave as you want. Your website sounds too steralized already. However, good luck.

18 posted on 12/18/2002 9:38:22 AM PST by xJones
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: TPartyType
Pfffffffft! Who asked you anyway? :-)
19 posted on 12/18/2002 9:38:50 AM PST by michigander
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TPartyType
The page you put together is excellent. I bookmarked it and will mention it to others. If only everyone would remember it, on and off the web. Great summary too:

"Classical rhetoric, in its most ethical and ancient manifestation, was a way of discussing the truth with one's fellows in a manner that respects their freedom and dignity, and attempts to move them toward the Good.

Crafting good, civil, arguments involves (click on any topic for further treatment):

Knowledge of the Fundamentals of Rhetoric (Why? Intuition vs. Art!)
An appreciation of the Ethics of Rhetoric (one ought persuade one's audience toward the good).
A grasp of Basic Logic (two reasons: the quality of one's arguments will be improved, and the sound one's reasoning processes, the less threatened one is by other points of view. Hence, the less need for flaming one's interlocutor.)
Getting informed. (Nobody likes to argue with persons who are ignorant of the facts about that which they speak.)"
*******

Please note that your "Basic Logic" link is going nowhere "Page not found, error 404" Maybe you haven't gotten around to it, but at least you know read your page and clicked on the links. :)
20 posted on 12/18/2002 9:39:56 AM PST by FairOpinion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: boris
"Akron, cold beer, and poor poor thing." That is a classic movie. :)
21 posted on 12/18/2002 9:40:49 AM PST by xJones
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: FairOpinion
Please note that your "Basic Logic" link is going nowhere

Hmmm. That doesn't make sense.

22 posted on 12/18/2002 9:48:13 AM PST by Mr. Bird
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: TPartyType
BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURP! What you say?
23 posted on 12/18/2002 9:56:48 AM PST by ohioman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TPartyType
Thank you for sharing your controlling nature with us.
And your exaggerated sense of worth.

You will forgive me for my disdain for your condescension, right?

Decorum, you know.

24 posted on 12/18/2002 9:58:10 AM PST by Publius6961
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: boris
He (who I wrote about in past tense) was offering me verbal advice and you call him a plagiarist. What was this thread about again?
25 posted on 12/18/2002 10:02:05 AM PST by Quilla
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Quilla
Couldn't he think up anything wise to say on his own?
26 posted on 12/18/2002 10:09:02 AM PST by boris
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: TPartyType
And if people won't refrain from flaming, they can develop some ability at it here:

The Ultimate Flame - (mildly offensive!)

27 posted on 12/18/2002 10:17:07 AM PST by mrsmith
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: boris
He was also a plagiarist. In this case, he stole it from Elwood P. Dowd

What kind of jackass are you? I suppose if his late father lit the candles on his damned birthday cake you'd call him an arsonist. Geez.....

And by the way, a plagiarist is someone who illicitly reproduces the artistic work of another. There is nothing illicit, illegal, or improper in conveying a published quote privately without attribution. So there, pig.

28 posted on 12/18/2002 10:29:14 AM PST by Mr. Bird
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: boris
Boris, regarding your #15:

I wish to draw a distinction between a taunt and a flame. A taunt is witty and harkens back to Monty Python skits and is, therefore, quite acceptable. A flame has utterly no redeeming value, you nasty son of a bed-wetting type!

29 posted on 12/18/2002 10:42:28 AM PST by TPartyType
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: FairOpinion
Thanks for the compliment!

Yeah, I haven't had time to get that logic link posted yet. It's going to be a major undertaking. (On the other hand, I may just link to other logic sites. There's a million of 'em . . .)

FRegards.

30 posted on 12/18/2002 10:45:42 AM PST by TPartyType
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: michigander
Aaaah, yer mutha! :o)
31 posted on 12/18/2002 10:47:39 AM PST by TPartyType
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: TPartyType
Me thinks you should have put on one of these.


32 posted on 12/18/2002 10:49:11 AM PST by PeaceBeWithYou
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: PeaceBeWithYou
Thanks! (I've been saving for one of those babies!)
33 posted on 12/18/2002 10:52:02 AM PST by TPartyType
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: TPartyType; Carry_Okie; Grampa Dave; budwiesest; farmfriend; Boot Hill; dalereed; ...
Civility, Diplomacy and Consensus are the Epitome of Dishonesty!!! (SierraWasp-December 18, 2002)

They are the Mother, Father and Children of Capitulation, Appeasment and Pernicious Politics!!!

History is relentless in it's repetitive proof of these postulations, yet the "nice guys" who should always "finish last," seem to get away with it by including it in the Extreme Prejudice of "Political Correstness" to pressurize their "Point of View!"

Without this whining of "Bad Manners," their arguments are so lame, emotion based and without merit, they would never be heard, otherwise. Buy yourself some asbestos underwear and wade in to the arena like everybody else and quit trying to drown everyone else out with claims of "fairness," "fairplay" and civility!

Did you write the book, "All I Ever Needed To Know, I Learned In Kindergarten?" (Whew)

34 posted on 12/18/2002 11:06:38 AM PST by SierraWasp
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TPartyType; All
Follow these rules... ;)

How To Argue (from NirvanaNet)

I argue very well. Ask any of my remaining friends. I can win an argument on any topic, against any opponent. People know this and steer clear of me at parties. Often, as a sign of their great respect, they don't even invite me. You too can win arguments.

Simply follow these rules:

* Drink liquor.

Suppose you are at a party and some hotshot intellectual is expounding on the economy of Peru, a subject you know nothing about. If you're drinking some health-fanatic drink like grapefruit juice, you'll hang back, afraid to display your ignorance, while the hotshot enthralls your date. But if you drink several large martinis, you'll discover you have STRONG VIEWS about the Peruvian economy. You'll be a WEALTH of information. You'll argue forcefully, offering searing insights and possibly upsetting furniture.
People will be impressed. Some may leave the room.

* Make things up.

Suppose, in the Peruvian economy argument, you are trying to prove that Peruvians are underpaid, a position you base solely on the fact that YOU are underpaid, and you'll be damned if you're going to let a bunch of Peruvians be better off. DON'T say: "I think Peruvians are underpaid." Say instead: "The average Peruvian's salary in 1981 dollars adjusted for the revised tax base is $1,452.81 per annum, which is $836.07 before the mean gross poverty level."

NOTE: Always make up exact figures.

If an opponent asks you where you got your information, make THAT up too. Say: "This information comes from Dr. Hovel T. Moon's study for the Buford Commission published on May 9, 1982. Didn't you read it?" Say this in the same tone of voice you would use to say, "You left your soiled underwear in my bathroom."

* Use meaningless but weighty-sounding words and phrases.

Memorize this list:

Let me put it this way
In terms of
Vis-a-vis
Per se
As it were
Qua
So to speak


You should also memorize some Latin abbreviations such as "Q.E.D.", "e.g.", and "i.e." These are all short for "I speak Latin, and you don't."

Here's how to use these words and phrases. Suppose you want to say, "Peruvians would like to order appetizers more often, but they don't have enough money."

You never win arguments talking like that. But you WILL win if you say, "Let me put it this way. In terms of appetizers vis-a-vis Peruvians qua Peruvians, they would like to order them more often, so to speak, but they do not have enough money per se, as it were. Q.E.D."

Only a fool would challenge that statement.

Use snappy and irrelevant comebacks.

You need an arsenal of all-purpose irrelevant phrases to fire back at your opponents when they make valid points. The best are:

You're begging the question.
You're being defensive.
Don't compare apples to oranges.
What are your parameters?


This last one is especially valuable. Nobody (other than engineers and policy wonks) has the vaguest idea what "parameters" means.

Here's how to use your comebacks:

You say: As Abraham Lincoln said in 1873...
Your opponent says: Lincoln died in 1865.
You say: You're begging the question.

You say: Liberians, like most Asians...
Your opponent says: Liberia is in Africa.
You say: You're being defensive.

Compare your opponent to Adolf Hitler.

This is your heavy artillery, for when your opponent is obviously right and you are spectacularly wrong. Bring Hitler up subtly. Say, "That sounds suspiciously like something Adolf Hitler might say," or "You certainly do remind me of Adolf Hitler."

So that's it. You now know how to out-argue anybody. Do not try to pull any of this on people who generally carry weapons.
35 posted on 12/18/2002 12:22:41 PM PST by Axenolith
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TPartyType
bump for later read
36 posted on 12/18/2002 1:03:44 PM PST by T. P. Pole
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: demosthenes the elder
Oh, and Hamilton, a genuine Founder, is said to have had a minor dispute of sorts with somebody named Burr. How did that turn out??? Rather poorly for Hamilton, it is said.

Don't forget the vicious word battles between John Adams and some guy named Jefferson. They were enemies for years, but finally made up in time to die on the same day, July 4th, Independence Day.

37 posted on 12/18/2002 1:16:44 PM PST by Paulus Invictus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: TPartyType
BUMP for your efforts. Any idea that can help us here at Free Republic in our efforts to flush the scumbag Democrats down the toilet like the foul, stinking turds they are is fine with me.

Kindest, most civil regards,
LH

38 posted on 12/18/2002 1:31:41 PM PST by Lancey Howard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TPartyType
In case you didn't know, this is a "democratic" forum.
39 posted on 12/18/2002 2:21:34 PM PST by cornelis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TPartyType
Great link at the top, TPT. (Except it is a little hard to read)
40 posted on 12/18/2002 2:23:07 PM PST by cornelis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: cornelis
Is it the background that makes it hard to read?
41 posted on 12/18/2002 2:28:33 PM PST by TPartyType
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: TPartyType
Nice site. You might appreciate this. It also comes with a good bibliography.

The problem is that the Internet allows instant response and it takes time to really grasp and argument and think up objections and defenses. Also, we typically want to annihilate opposing arguments, when in fact it's usually not possible to prove things so conclusively.

42 posted on 12/18/2002 2:36:18 PM PST by x
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TPartyType
Obviously, you weren't here for the flame wars of '98-99. Since then, FR has been revamped to be the internet equivalent of the Big Mac. (Some of us still can't force ourselves to be civil to the WWF crowd who has since invaded FR.)
43 posted on 12/18/2002 2:37:00 PM PST by babylonian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TPartyType
Hah! Reduced to Chat, I note. QED.

;^)
44 posted on 12/18/2002 2:46:34 PM PST by headsonpikes
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: x
I know and respect Zarefsky. Thanks.
45 posted on 12/18/2002 4:03:51 PM PST by TPartyType
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: TPartyType
Is it the background that makes it hard to read?

Yes, I think so. And there is limited contrast with the blue font.

x thinks time is a factor. It may be lack of education or limited knowledge. Also, a forum is often last resort for those who have failed to get respect elswhere.

The best advice I know is to find the good posters on the forum and do a search on them. Off the top of my head, these posters have things worth saying and responding to (excluding otherwise worthy hit-and-run pundits):

x

Dumb Ox (when he speaks)

Diamond

Iron Jack

Cicero

betty boop

Nebullis

Huck

KC Burke

And more whom others should add because I know this my list would be incomplete.

46 posted on 12/18/2002 5:16:31 PM PST by cornelis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: TPartyType
I fart in your general direction!
47 posted on 12/18/2002 7:18:52 PM PST by boris
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Mr. Bird
"And by the way, a plagiarist is someone who illicitly reproduces the artistic work of another."

Not even close, spawn of inbred hillbilly beastialists.

Main Entry: pla-gia-rize
Function: verb
Inflected Form:-rized ; -riz-ing
to present the ideas or words of another as one's own

–pla*gia*rism \-*ri-z*m\ noun
–pla*gia*rist \-rist\ noun

Daddy seems to qualify.

--Boris

48 posted on 12/18/2002 7:26:33 PM PST by boris
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: boris

Speakest thou not thy blasphemy lest I instruct my servant to consult the Book of Armaments!


49 posted on 12/18/2002 8:25:30 PM PST by TPartyType
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: Bikers4Bush
Thanks for posting this great remark. My Dad and Grandfather taught me this and added a club or a rock. I used this motto when I was 3-4 with a Billy Goat which tried to hurt me. First, I hit it with a rock and then followed up with some my Grand Dad's scrap lumber. The owner came rushing into my Grand Dad's yard to rescue his Billy Goat as I was laying the wood to its head, eyes and ears.

"Compromise is the art of saying "nice doggie" until you can find a big rock."

50 posted on 12/19/2002 10:44:48 AM PST by Grampa Dave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-55 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson