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College Seniors No More Knowledgeable Than 1950s High School Grads
CNSNEWS.com ^ | 12/19/02 | Scott Hogenson

Posted on 12/19/2002 3:08:50 AM PST by kattracks

(CNSNews.com) - The college seniors of today have no better grasp of general knowledge than the high school graduates of almost half a century ago, according to the results of a new study.

The average of correct responses for modern college seniors on a series of questions assessing "general cultural knowledge" was 53.5 percent compared with 54.5 percent of high school graduates in 1955, according to a survey by Zogby International.

The Zogby poll of 401 randomly selected college seniors was conducted in April for the Princeton, N.J.-based National Association of Scholars and released Wednesday.

"The average amount of knowledge that college seniors had was just about the same as the average amount of knowledge that high school graduates had back in the 1950s," said NAS President Stephen H. Balch.

Balch noted that the high school grads of half a century ago performed better than today's college seniors on history questions, while contemporary students fared better on questions covering art and literature, with no appreciable difference on geography questions.

The questions asked in the April poll by Zogby were virtually the same as questions asked by the Gallup Organization in 1955, with a few questions being slightly modified to reflect history.

"The questions were just about identical, as identical as we could make them," said Balch. "In most cases, they were absolutely identical."

Balch attributed the stagnation of performance on general knowledge questions to several factors, including a decreased emphasis on general knowledge in high school, placing colleges and universities in the position of having to fill academic gaps among students entering college.

"This is fundamental knowledge that everyone should have and if your students are being admitted without it, then that only reinforces the need for you to take general education seriously," Balch said.

But Balch said he didn't consider such actions to be remedial in nature, noting that "the remedial problems have to do with students not being able to write or read at the eighth grade level and still getting into college. There are many institutions in which that's a difficulty. You have people who just don't have the skills let alone the knowledge."

Even though the NAS study raises questions about the caliber of general education offered in high schools, colleges and universities also bear some responsibility, Balch said.

"I think it probably has a lot to do with the dumbing down of curriculum, both at the college and high school level," said Balch. "It looks good, certainly, to say 'more people are graduating from college,' but is there any real intellectual yield from it?"

Also part of the problem is that many colleges are placing less emphasis on liberal arts education in favor of more specialized education geared toward specific career paths, which Balch said isn't necessarily in the best interest of students or society.

"I think these results, which don't seem to show a great deal of value-added in the general cultural knowledge domain - I think these results are quite interesting and disappointing," said Balch. "We would hope that the college students of today would have done a good deal better than the high school students of the past."

Also contributing to the trend is an easing of college admissions standards. While Balch doesn't advocate a return to standards requiring competency in Greek or Latin, he does say colleges should "insist that the student coming have basic areas of knowledge."

A solid background in general knowledge, Balch said, is "very important both for good citizenship and, for many people at least, for a happy and interesting life," by providing students with what Balch called "cultural furniture that allows them to be better citizens."

Click here to read the general knowledge questions.

Send a Letter to the Editor about this article.





TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: educationnews
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To: conservativemusician
WRITE=WRITES.....sheesh
41 posted on 12/19/2002 4:58:02 AM PST by conservativemusician
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To: Hank Kerchief
Give the poor students more credit than that. If you asked them to define a "dangling participle", most of the answers would probably include something about "oratorio".
42 posted on 12/19/2002 5:03:58 AM PST by hellinahandcart
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To: DonQ
Nowadays, we've encouraged kids to finish high school and even enter college by greasing the track for them and generally closing down options available to drop-outs.

Why? Because socialists want children in school from the cradle through age 22. Read this letter from Marc Tucker, the president of the the National Center on Education and the Economy, to Hilary Clinton written in 1993.

If anyone wants to know what government education is really about, read this book on-line for free.

43 posted on 12/19/2002 5:06:11 AM PST by Aquinasfan
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To: conservativemusician
Don't you hate it when that happens? :D
44 posted on 12/19/2002 5:06:35 AM PST by hellinahandcart
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To: MrNeutron1962
1962...

I dare say you did not read the story. In 1950, there were no computers. I think your statement reflects the Zogby poll.

45 posted on 12/19/2002 5:09:51 AM PST by cynicom
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To: SamAdams76
Sam...

As a grad in 1950 that went off to fight a war, I find your comment demeaning at the very best, I could add stupid but wont.

46 posted on 12/19/2002 5:12:54 AM PST by cynicom
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To: Aquinasfan
THAT is chilling.
47 posted on 12/19/2002 5:14:37 AM PST by conservativemusician
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To: JimVT
I wasn't even born in the 1950s. But I'm old enough to know that everybody has a tendency to see their past through rose-colored glasses. You know the syndrome: "Back in my day, we had real hardship, we walked six miles to school in subzero weather with holes in our shoes and men were men"...ad infinitum.

Don't misinterpret me. I am not defending our current educational system, I think it's terrible. Then again, I think it's better than the 1970s era (when I was growing up). My high school resembled "Welcome Back Kotter."

I will say that I would rather be a kid today then a kid in the 1950s. I think kids today have far better opportunities available to them.

48 posted on 12/19/2002 5:17:25 AM PST by SamAdams76
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To: Clara Lou
Clara Lou...

I graduated in 1950. We knew respect and discipline and some people demeaning us here is an insult. Most did not even bother to read the story or if they did, they did not comprehend.

The war started two weeks after graduation, off I went as a "stupid" volunteer. None of us ran to Canada.

49 posted on 12/19/2002 5:17:49 AM PST by cynicom
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To: hellinahandcart
Give the poor students more credit than that. If you asked them to define a "dangling participle", most of the answers would probably include something about "oratorio".

No doubt!

Does this contribute to the fact that most of them go around with the pants so low you can see their split infinitives, if not their dangling participles?

Hank

50 posted on 12/19/2002 5:19:38 AM PST by Hank Kerchief
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To: cynicom
So what does a war have to do with this discussion? I was in the military too. I joined the Marines out of high school. Does that make my opinions worth more than those who weren't in the military at all? Or do I have to actually fight in a war in order to have my opinions taken seriously? I would like to know.
51 posted on 12/19/2002 5:20:00 AM PST by SamAdams76
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This is what school's about, Charlie Brown...

The Land of Frankenstein

The particular utopia American believers chose to bring to the schoolhouse was Prussian. The seed that became American schooling, twentieth-century style, was planted in 1806 when Napoleon’s amateur soldiers bested the professional soldiers of Prussia at the battle of Jena. When your business is renting soldiers and employing diplomatic extortion under threat of your soldiery, losing a battle like that is pretty serious. Something had to be done.

The most important immediate reaction to Jena was an immortal speech, the "Address to the German Nation" by the philosopher Fichte—one of the influential documents of modern history leading directly to the first workable compulsion schools in the West. Other times, other lands talked about schooling, but all failed to deliver. Simple forced training for brief intervals and for narrow purposes was the best that had ever been managed. This time would be different.

In no uncertain terms Fichte told Prussia the party was over. Children would have to be disciplined through a new form of universal conditioning. They could no longer be trusted to their parents. Look what Napoleon had done by banishing sentiment in the interests of nationalism. Through forced schooling, everyone would learn that "work makes free," and working for the State, even laying down one’s life to its commands, was the greatest freedom of all. Here in the genius of semantic redefinition1 lay the power to cloud men’s minds, a power later packaged and sold by public relations pioneers Edward Bernays and Ivy Lee in the seedtime of American forced schooling.

Prior to Fichte’s challenge any number of compulsion-school proclamations had rolled off printing presses here and there, including Martin Luther’s plan to tie church and state together this way and, of course, the "Old Deluder Satan" law of 1642 in Massachusetts and its 1645 extension. The problem was these earlier ventures were virtually unenforceable, roundly ignored by those who smelled mischief lurking behind fancy promises of free education. People who wanted their kids schooled had them schooled even then; people who didn’t didn’t. That was more or less true for most of us right into the twentieth century: as late as1920, only 32 percent of American kids went past elementary school. If that sounds impossible, consider the practice in Switzerland today where only 23 percent of the student population goes to high school, though Switzerland has the world’s highest per capita income in the world.

Prussia was prepared to use bayonets on its own people as readily as it wielded them against others, so it’s not all that surprising the human race got its first effective secular compulsion schooling out of Prussia in 1819, the same year Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein, set in the darkness of far-off Germany, was published in England. Schule came after more than a decade of deliberations, commissions, testimony, and debate. For a brief, hopeful moment, Humboldt’s brilliant arguments for a high-level no-holds-barred, free-swinging, universal, intellectual course of study for all, full of variety, free debate, rich experience, and personalized curricula almost won the day. What a different world we would have today if Humboldt had won the Prussian debate, but the forces backing Baron vom Stein won instead. And that has made all the difference.

The Prussian mind, which carried the day, held a clear idea of what centralized schooling should deliver: 1) Obedient soldiers to the army;2 2) Obedient workers for mines, factories, and farms; 3) Well-subordinated civil servants, trained in their function; 4) Well-subordinated clerks for industry; 5) Citizens who thought alike on most issues; 6) National uniformity in thought, word, and deed.

The area of individual volition for commoners was severely foreclosed by Prussian psychological training procedures drawn from the experience of animal husbandry and equestrian training, and also taken from past military experience. Much later, in our own time, the techniques of these assorted crafts and sullen arts became "discoveries" in the pedagogical pseudoscience of psychological behaviorism.

Prussian schools delivered everything they promised. Every important matter could now be confidently worked out in advance by leading families and institutional heads because well-schooled masses would concur with a minimum of opposition. This tightly schooled consensus in Prussia eventually combined the kaleidoscopic German principalities into a united Germany, after a thousand years as a nation in fragments. What a surprise the world would soon get from this successful experiment in national centralization! Under Prussian state socialism private industry surged, vaulting resource-poor Prussia up among world leaders. Military success remained Prussia’s touchstone. Even before the school law went into full effect as an enhancer of state priorities, the army corps under Blücher was the principal reason for Napoleon’s defeat at Waterloo, its superb discipline allowing for a surprisingly successful return to combat after what seemed to be a crushing defeat at the Little Corporal’s hands just days before.3 Unschooled, the Prussians were awesome; conditioned in the classroom promised to make them even more formidable.

The immense prestige earned from this triumph reverberated through an America not so lucky in its own recent fortunes of war, a country humiliated by a shabby showing against the British in the War of 1812. Even thirty years after Waterloo, so highly was Prussia regarded in America and Britain, the English-speaking adversaries selected the Prussian king to arbitrate our northwest border with Canada. Hence the Pennsylvania town "King of Prussia." Thirty-three years after Prussia made state schooling work, we borrowed the structure, style, and intention of those Germans for our own first compulsion schools.

Traditional American school purpose—piety, good manners, basic intellectual tools, self-reliance, etc.—was scrapped to make way for something different. Our historical destination of personal independence gave way slowly to Prussian-purpose schooling, not because the American way lost in any competition of ideas, but because for the new commercial and manufacturing hierarchs, such a course made better economic sense.

This private advance toward nationalized schooling in America was partially organized, although little has ever been written about it; Orestes Brownson’s journal identifies a covert national apparatus (to which Brownson briefly belonged) already in place in the decade after the War of 1812, one whose stated purpose was to "Germanize" America, beginning in those troubled neighborhoods where the urban poor huddled, and where disorganized new immigrants made easy targets, according to Brownson. Enmity on the part of old-stock middle-class and working-class populations toward newer immigrants gave these unfortunates no appeal against the school sentence to which Massachusetts assigned them. They were in for a complete makeover, like it or not.

Much of the story, as it was being written by 1844, lies just under the surface of Mann’s florid prose in his Seventh Annual Report to the Boston School Committee. On a visit to Prussia the year before, he had been much impressed (so he said) with the ease by which Prussian calculations could determine precisely how many thinkers, problem-solvers, and working stiffs the State would require over the coming decade, then how it offered the precise categories of training required to develop the percentages of human resource needed. All this was much fairer to Mann than England’s repulsive episcopal system—schooling based on social class; Prussia, he thought, was republican in the desirable, manly, Roman sense. Massachusetts must take the same direction.

more...


52 posted on 12/19/2002 5:21:18 AM PST by Aquinasfan
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To: SamAdams76
Sam you took delight in demeaning those of us that were there. You know nothing of the time and yet you are an expert.
53 posted on 12/19/2002 5:21:33 AM PST by cynicom
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To: conservativemusician
THAT is chilling.

Please spread the URL:

http://www.mredcopac.org/tucker.htm

54 posted on 12/19/2002 5:23:56 AM PST by Aquinasfan
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To: kattracks
A few years ago I knew a stripper who was taking college courses on the side (this happens more than you think here in Ft. Lauderdale). One day she came over to my place in tears because she was assigned to write a paper on Croatia. I asked her what the problem was and she told me that she looked all over the map of Africa but couldn't find Croatia.
55 posted on 12/19/2002 5:23:57 AM PST by PJ-Comix
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To: SamAdams76
And what did the students of the 1950s end up doing with their lives? Smoking dope, protesting the war and listening to acid rock. Well, many of them did, anyway.

Others went to and walked on the moon.

56 posted on 12/19/2002 5:25:51 AM PST by lonestar
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To: cynicom
Gee, you keep changing the rules as we go along. First you have to serve in the military in order to have an opinion. Then when I told you I was in the military, you come back and say I have to be an expert in order to have an opinion. I suppose that if I show you I am an expert, you'll come back and say that I had to have been there in order to have an opinion. In which case, none of us here would be able to discuss anything prior to the 1930s.
57 posted on 12/19/2002 5:29:18 AM PST by SamAdams76
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To: cynicom
Gee, you keep changing the rules as we go along. First you have to serve in the military in order to have an opinion. Then when I told you I was in the military, you come back and say I have to be an expert in order to have an opinion. I suppose that if I show you I am an expert, you'll come back and say that I had to have been there in order to have an opinion. In which case, none of us here would be able to discuss anything prior to the 1930s.
58 posted on 12/19/2002 5:29:21 AM PST by SamAdams76
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To: Aquinasfan
Hmmmm... " work makes free", Arbeit Macht Frei

Where have we seen this in recent history.
59 posted on 12/19/2002 5:33:04 AM PST by conservativemusician
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To: Clara Lou
I could go on and on. [I teach middle school.]

God bless you!

60 posted on 12/19/2002 5:33:29 AM PST by lonestar
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