U.S.-U.N. Command: North Korea violated Korean War armistice

USA Today / AP ^ | 12/27/2002 | AP Staff

[Steel Wolf]

An attack by us, on frozen, barefoot, starving NK troops would be over in days. I don't care how many of them there are. One Apache can take out 3,000 in minutes if they are stupid enough to mass. A Specter can take out 10 times more.

They won't be massing, they'll be coming over every rock and hill. The air power will be useful, assuming that no NK infiltrators, SCUD-Cs, or artillery has taken them out.

You do raise a very good point about the NK troops themselves. For political reasons, the NK government is worried that should the soldiers actually break through to Seoul, they'll find something they've never seen and were told didn't exist. Prosperity. The stories they have been raised on about the South being a starved wasteland worse than NK will be exposed as lies. There is a real concern that the troops would desert by the tens of thousands, entire units disbanding and fleeing the battle.

There's also a concern that some upper echelon commanders wouldn't obey the commands to head south, or would outright turn sides, knowing the outcome of invasion to be a hopeless slaughter.

Hate to beat the drums of war, but personally, I wish it would come now, rather than later.

Yes, I stood across the DMZ, and was willing to give up my life.

I hear ya, brother. Been there myself, and will be back soon enough. Airborne!

[MonroeDNA]

We won't attack. We don't have to.

The are doing a great job imploding.

But if they attack, all bets are off.

But they won't...they know they will live longer if they don't, even as their people eat grass.

[MonroeDNA]

Thanks for the kind words.

I was AF.

[Steel Wolf]

2. We need to hope that Kim doesn't go mad or wake up on the bad side of the bed for the few years left necessary to implement and perfect the ABM system. That's a lot of time for this situation to continue at what is in effect status quo. A lot of room for error there in dealing with a desperate madman.

You are entirely right. These next few years are the most crucial in dealing with the North. They still have the conventional force to deal serious chaos to the south, and they have nuclear weapons (without any concern of the MAD concept). In another decade, their military will be little threat to the south (artillery aside), and the nukes will be expensive lawn ornaments.

Bush depriving them of their ill bargained for oil is great, in that it makes them less combat ready. While is most certainly is insane, he is not yet suicidally so. Bush has essentailly told Kim to go put a fork in himself, because we're done negotiating. This leaves it upon the North to show signs that they are ready to play well with others. Aside from a straight up public qui pro quo nuclear blackmail scare, no one cares what they say anymore.

[Scott from the Left Coast]

This is a very dicey situation, and if Bush is indeed going to play a long game it will be a treacherous one.

This situation really points up what kind of a mess we would have if we were delayed long enough for Sadaam to go nuclear. Kim is creating a precedent for madmen! He must not be successful. Nor must he spectacularly unsuccessful -- going out with radioactive burst. If either happens, he will have imitators in every corner of the world.

[Steel Wolf]

This is a very dicey situation, and if Bush is indeed going to play a long game it will be a treacherous one.

True, but I think we can punk out the NKs diplomatically, and let them collapse under the weight of their own incompetence, while sitting poised and ready to stomp and stomp well all over the North, just in case.

Remember, after Iraq, there will be no serious distractions to us bringing them down. North Korea will be the biggest fish to fry.

[Southack]

It's not just that the Third World War has begun (probably started with the 1993 bombing of the WTC, with the Prelude being the Gulf War), it's that ALL of our enemies are playing to our strengths (military and economic).

Whether on the battlefield or in the banks, the U.S. rules; there simply isn't any serious competition to us. Where we were losing was back when the battles were being fought in the press, the UN, and in diplomatic "negotiations".

But on the battlefield?! Oh please. Throw me in that briar patch.

In the market? Again, thow me into that briar patch.

A large, modern war, with nukes, chems, and bios deployed clearly favors the U.S. We have more of all of the above. Ours is better and faster and more lethal, too. Our population is fully dispersed geographicly, and our borders are more defendable than any of our enemies' borders are for them against our weapons systems.

So let our enemies continue to play to our strength. It is in WAR that we can defeat them.

It was the peace where we were at risk. 600 votes going the other way in 2000, for instance, would pretty much set us up to lose this war, had the slightest changes in our peace manifested themselves inopportunely...

[Swiss]

**Meanwhile, the jewel of the south, Seoul, is a 40 mile walk from the border**

While the South Korean Army may not be the Israeli Defence Force it is not the same untrained Army of the late 1940's.

As the Israeli-Arab conflects show, larger forces does not always overwhelm smaller forces to cover short distances.

With every potental bottleneck for those invading forces identified and targeted since the last war I wouldn't bet money either way.

What worries me most is the possibility that South Korea with a much larger economy and population than North Korea has become over dependent on America to protect them in case of invasion. If China was to stay out of it there is no reason the South Koreans couldn't handle North Korea.

[Steel Wolf]

The main concern is not so much that the North conquers the South, but that they ruin it. This threat is their leverage. Their conventional forces simply don't provide them the ability to overwhelm the prosperous, populous South. They can, however, set them back fifty years, and turn it into a nightmarish, war torn wasteland.

The nukes won't let them conquer the South, either. They are purely for negotiating with us.

[MOPatriot]

This is really more for anyone to read. Just thought some of you might like a little flashback of history on the UN/League of Nations. Back in 1919, the Senate was debating whether to join the League of Nations. Some really stupid people were for it as the only answer for real peace, or "peace at any price". Now that people in the liberal media and others are saying now that we have the unanimous consent of the Security Council, we can go to war with Iraq and disarm them.(For clarity, I support the war with Iraq, I just dont think we need the UN's approval) Read this and chew on it. Its by a Senator Borah:

"Ah But you say that there must be unianimous consent of the Council when making desicions relating to the peace and war of the world, and that there is vast protection in unanimous consent. I do not wish to speak disparangly, but has not every division and dismemberment of every nation which has suffered dismemberment taken place by unanimous consent for the last 300years? ....Take another view of it. We are sending to the Council one man. That one man represents 110 million people(1920 figure). Here, sitting in the Senate, we have two from every state in the Union, and over in the other house we have represetatives in accordance with population, and the responsibilities are spread out in accordance with our obligations to our constituency. But now we are transferring to one man the stupendous power of representing the sentiment of 110 million people in tremendous questions which may involve the peace or may involve war."
There is more good stuff on this. But its rather long. He also goes into that the principles and virtues of our republic cant be mixed with that of the Old World." These distinguishing virtues of a real republic you cannot commingle with the discordant and destructive forces of the Old World and still preserve them."

Makes you feel good knowing that wonderful people like the Syrians, Communist Chinese, Socialist French and other great people full of American ideals are on the Security Council at the UN to give us permission to defend ourselves.Give me a break!!

If anyone is interested in more of what they said in 1919 let me know and I will get that on here for your perusal. Thanks.

[satchmodog9]

Kind of says it all.

[streetpreacher]

I disagree. A unilateral pull out of American forces will send a signal to the world's despots that America abandons her allies when faced with intimidation. What do you think the fallout would be? China would most certainly move on Taiwan. The solution to this problem is not to "pull out" but to "pile on", more troops and pre-emptive air strikes... NOW. Hit 'em hard and go nuclear if need be.

[streetpreacher]

Also, if they wanted to just get the attention of the US and blackmail them they would have picked a better time, and not when the US is focused on Iraq.

I don't understand your logic here. This is the perfect time for blackmail as the NK understand that we can't offer a ready response to them while we are focusing on a large-scale invasion of Iraq (so they think).

[stuck_in_new_orleans]

hmmm, on the day that we officialy head in Iraq, I wont if N Korea is stupid enough to start some shit onto the border?

I guess the worst fear is that the N Korean army would swarm into S Korea and maybe not confront the American military but rather surround it...kinda like hostages therefore preventing some massive attack on the north.

These people seem dumb enough to do something like that

[stuck_in_new_orleans]

I have a cousin who just came from S Korean (in the army) he says he dosent want to go back but everyone expects that after Iraq that they will have to go back.

He told me that there is a particular river that runs from the north into the south and that almost every day dead corpses come floating down the river. Really freaky shit is happening inside that country.

Thank god you live in America

[SevenDaysInMay]

The Democrat Politburo leaders, past and very past, envy the Chinese and NK governments' efficiency. We know what Hillary has in mind.

[Steel Wolf]

"Steel Wolf, any chance you used to post at the history channel forums?"

Nope, when I vent, I tend to do it here. (I dig the history channel, though.) I've studied a lot of history, especially the military aspect, as it helps out on the job. Knowing what people did helps understand what they might do.

[Steel Wolf]

"Steel Wolf, any chance you used to post at the history channel forums?"

Nope, when I vent, I tend to do it here. (I dig the history channel, though.) I've studied a lot of history, especially the military aspect, as it helps out on the job. Knowing what people did helps understand what they might do.