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To: governsleastgovernsbest
Conversion is governed by the specific provisions of Jewish law.

Yes, but these provisions are themselves subject to varying degrees of interpretation. In Israel conversion and marriage are controlled by the Orthodox. Sharon's remarks, nor any Israeli law, can change the Jewish laws. But Sharon can change the Israeli governments definition of who is a Jew. And he can appeal to the Beit Din (Religious court) to reexamine the issues of conversion.

At one time (a long time ago) it mattered not whether your mother of father was a Jew -- either would do. Now it is matrilinial.

To become a Jew in Israel, one has to undergo a rigorous lifestyle change, and depending on which sect you choose so goes the type of change. To become a Jew in the USA, depending on which sect and which branch (orthodox, conservative or reform), you may not have to change your life much.

But the Orthodox will not accept a reform or conservative conversion. The result is a lot of confused people, a lot of unhappy people, and a lot of people who want to be Jews but do not accept the Orthodox interpretation of Halacha.

As in the days of yore, there were the Pharisees, Saducees and other sects of Jews. Each sect adopted different interpretations of Jewish law. There needs to be more unanimity.

Before I ramble too much, there is a question of priority. If the Orthodox believe that having more Jews is a priority, they will change their rulings to permit easier conversion, and hope that those who convert will slowly come closer to living a Torah life. The way it stands now, they want proof that you will live a Torah (as defined by them) life BEFORE you will convert. And in many respects it is a double standard, because even the Orthodox recognize the principle that no Jew is perfect, and that one of the purposes in life for a Jew is to spend the life becoming a better Jew one step at a time.

17 posted on 12/30/2002 7:33:39 PM PST by monkeyshine
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To: monkeyshine
I appreciate your response. Still, I disagree with an unstated but significant premise of your argument: that the rules covering conversion (or any other aspect of Jewish law) are subject to change in accordance with what are the essentially political goals of the rabbis.

Thus you state: "If the Orthodox believe that having more Jews is a priority, they will change their rulings to permit easier conversion."

I have no doubt that if I were to ask an Orthodox rabbi to evaluate that statement, he would say something along the following lines: "even if my goal were to have more Jews in Israel, it is not within my power to change the laws of conversion, which are immutable, any more than I could change the laws of kashrut in order to have more kosher food available."
19 posted on 12/31/2002 2:53:05 AM PST by governsleastgovernsbest
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To: monkeyshine
The Rambam says a person must accept the "yoke of Torah" in order to convert, meaning, they must commit to living by the law without exception. There is a difference between recognizing that you must strive to raise your level of observance and deciding or declaring, as reform Jews do, that you don't want or need to observe G-d's laws. Why should a person who does not want to live by G-d's laws convert? The Rambam says a person who doesn't accept the 13 Principles of Faith is an apikoros. Accepting that you need to do something, or that you believe something, is different than being "perfect" in your observance of the law. No human is or ever was perfect.
28 posted on 12/31/2002 3:47:35 PM PST by Cinnamon Girl
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