With Missionaries Spreading, Muslims' Anger Is Following (NYT sees missionaries deserving of death)

New York Times ^ | Dec. 31, 2002 | SUSAN SACHS

[VOA]

NYT sees missionaries deserving of death

But of course...
only Christians who are a bit on the right (or further) on the "inerrancy"
or fundamentalist scale are "intolerant".

As far as the NYT staff is concerned, only conservative Christians
are deserving of this sort of character assassination.

All other religions/philosphies/"-isms" are except fromt this sort of censure...
no matter how bankrupt their ideology or how murderous their fruits of their thoughts are...

[Marysecretary]

I believe there IS a difference between Christians who are born again believers and those who blindly follow the teachings of churches without question or without reading the scriptures for themselves to find out the real truth. We all have to be careful not to just take someone's word for it. We have to read and search the scriptures for the truth. The truth is not in all facets of churches who say they're Christian. Much is merely doctrine without the truth of the scriptures. Too much of church doctrine is religion without relationship.

[Marysecretary]

That's right. Each person has to find Christ for him or herself. Many churches don't tell their congregations about salvation. They're religious but don't know anything about relationship and that's what Christ is all about--relationship. He hated the religion of his day because it put people in bondage and it still does in some churches. God wants to set us free to love and worship Him and Him alone.

[foreshadowed at waco]

I have been told by a Jehovah Witness who rang my doorbell that even though I have been a Catholic Christian all my life that I would not be saved because I was not 'born again'--some evangelicals behave almost like telemarketers--they can be intrusive and even insulting at times. There is sometimes a very thin line between enthusiam and zealotry. All the converts I know are people who went seeking the truth on their own--not people who fell prey to a sales pitch.

[MarMema]

Too much of church doctrine is religion without relationship.

I could not agree more. That is why I belong to the Orthodox church, which encourages members to develop a personal relationship with God, is not legalistic or concerned about rules and authority, and with humility provides a liturgy filled with Holy Scripture for those who are interested in worshipping and knowing God.

"In the Bible, in and through the words of men, one finds the self-revelation of God and can come to a true and genuine knowledge of Him and His will and purpose for man and the world. In and through the Bible, human persons can enter into communion with God."
From The Orthodox Church and the Bible

[MarMema]

I have a Coptic friend from Egypt who says he wouldn't feel safe to go back there now.

And yet martyrdom is the highest ideal we could ever offer to God in the Christian faith.

While everyone else here is feeling sad about these missionaries, I am thinking they are certainly bound for Glory as the rest of us can only hope for.
Likewise for those whom God has asked to be Orthodox in the lands of muslim killers and torturers. They are no doubt honored to have been provided with such an opportunity to serve and rely on God. Of such opportunities are saints made. This life is transient, the next is the more important one.

[MarMema]

I meant to address my above post to you as well. My sincere apologies.

[twntaipan]

There are three very fine articles with biographies of these martyrs found here.

Martha Myers: a life dedicated to caring for the Yemeni people Note: I wonder if the Slimes hitpiece writer has ever thought of giving away all her savings so that another person could have a life-saving surgery. Dr. Martha did just that recently.

William Koehn 'gave his life ... helping people and serving God'Note: I wonder if the Slimes editors have ever personally helped an indigent person. "Just last week he was giving away basic food -- flour, sugar, things like that -- to some indigent people,"

Kathleen Gariety was committed as a friend & neighbor in YemenNote: I wonder if the Slimes writers and editors have ever thought of anyone other than their selfish arrogant selves. The [Milwaukee]Journal Sentinel reported Dec. 30 that Gariety opted to live in a small apartment among the people of Yemen instead of housing provided on the hospital compound because she wanted to be more of a friend than a foreigner.

[nmh]

You: "I have been told by a Jehovah Witness who rang my doorbell that even though I have been a Catholic Christian all my life that I would not be saved because I was not 'born again'--some evangelicals behave almost like telemarketers--they can be intrusive and even insulting at times. There is sometimes a very thin line between enthusiam and zealotry. All the converts I know are people who went seeking the truth on their own--not people who fell prey to a sales pitch."

I understand why Catholics are critical of Christians. Christians follow Christ and His teachings. These are foreign to you. Using extremes to justify your unBiblical postion is the saddest commentary here. These folks risked their lives to save others, literally and figuratively. They are also not JW's. When it comes to JV's, I remind them also that their doctrine doesn't square with the Bible and I can also explain why. LIke you, they aren't interested in the why, become overly polite and move on. I have found dealing with Catholics to be absuive and insulting.

Most of my church is exCatholic. With the encouragement of other CHristians, they read the Bible and opened their eyes. No one can force someone to do something they don't want to do. I dare say that according to you the deciples would be considered intrusive zealots. Read your Bible and see how they conduct thmeselves. They weren't ashamed of the good news of eternal life. If you are familiar with the Bible you'd also see that evangelizing is exactly what the deciples and Christ did.

It's too bad that being "born again" appears idiotic to you. All I can say is that the more you express yourself just makes me wonder why you'd even want to be labeled a Christian. It appears to repulse you.

[nmh]

Since being "born again" is troublesome to you, I thought I should clarify that Jesus and Peter also thought it was important.

John.3

[3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

[7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

1Pet.1

[23] Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Read the entire passage and consider becoming a Christian.

Happy New Year too!

[BenR2]

Well, the Slimes now equates sharing Christ with the violence perpetrated on three dead missionaries. This is a Slimes hit piece.

Written by a self- (and no doubt, an Israel-) hating Jewess, no less.

[denydenydeny]

I can't believe all the sheer secterian idiocy on this thread, especially at a point where Islam is openly threatening to exterminate all Christianity.

There are a lot of people on this thread who should be ashamed of themselves. They are a disgrace to Christianity.

[twntaipan]

Certainly seems heading that way. But the question of whether or not to be active in sharing the love of Christ was square at the center of these martyrs lives.

[MissAmericanPie]

Bulls eye regarding your post #11. Happy New Year btw.

[2sheep]

>Each person has to find Christ for him or herself. Many churches don't tell their congregations about salvation.

Many churches do not tell their congregations about the necessity for obedience and holiness, which is our reasonable service.

Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

Ro 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

>They're religious but don't know anything about relationship and that's what Christ is all about--relationship. He hated the religion of his day because it put people in bondage and it still does in some churches. God wants to set us free to love and worship Him and Him alone.

No.  He hated the HYPOCRISY of his day, just like He hates HYPOCRISY today in Christianity.  Yeshua said in Joh 15:14, Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. There is no relationship outside of obedience and for those who only have a "form of godliness" and deny His power.  Yeshua was a Jewish Rabbi and didn't come to destroy the law, but rather fulfill it.  He didn't come to discard Judaism at all and make a religion full of pagan feasts and practices.  See, Sun Worship in Church Vocabulary  and  Would Your Church Allow You To Be Like Jesus?

Mt 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

Links to chase...

Who should convert, Jews or Christians?   143 and related links.

Saved by Grace?  Who is the author of anomianism?   30 and related links.

[kcvl]

Victims 'at Home' in Yemen

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

December 31, 2002


Mansfield, Texas - Less than a year from retirement, William Koehn died doing what he felt called to do, running a Baptist hospital and making toys for the needy in Yemen, his son-in-law said yesterday.

The 60-year-old hospital director, who had lived in the Arabian peninsula nation for nearly half his life, was one of three Americans gunned down as they sat in a meeting at the hospital where they worked in the city of Jibla, according to the Southern Baptist Convention's International Mission Board, based in Richmond, Va.

Another of those killed was Dr. Martha Myers, 57, whose father, Ira, said "she loved the people" of Yemen and "felt like that was home."

Ira Myers, 78, retired director of Alabama's Department of Public Health, said that Yemen had been his daughter's home for 24 years. She "had the opportunity to talk to the native women. That would not have been possible for a male doctor in that culture," he said.

"We are concerned for the people who have been getting their care from Martha and the others at the hospital. Now where do they go?" Myers asked.

Purchasing agent Kathleen Gariety, 53, of Wauwatosa, Wis., the third to die in the attack, had been in Yemen for 10 years. Family members said they tried to get her to stay in Wisconsin when she visited this summer.

"I didn't want her to go, but I think what really took her back was the children" there, said her brother, Jerome Gariety Jr. of Colgate, Wis.

Wounded in the attack was pharmacist Donald Caswell, 49, who was in critical condition after surgery to repair a stomach wound. About 40 people gathered for a prayer service yesterday at First Baptist Church of Eustace, southeast of Dallas, where his family used to attend services.

"He fell in love with people in Jibla," said the Rev. Paul McKinney. Caswell has been doing missionary work for a year and a half and he and his wife, Terri, have three children, said his father, D.C. Caswell, 71. "I do hope that he'd come on home now," he said.

Koehn, the hospital director, and his wife, Marty, had been in Yemen since 1975, their son-in-law, Randal Pearce, said at his home in Mansfield, 15 miles from Fort Worth.

"There are always concerns," Pearce said, but "he was there to help people, and he felt safe."

[ROCKLOBSTER]

Under Muslim law, conversion from Islam is punishable by death

But then again, (ad nauseum) Islam is a religion of peace.

[kcvl]

The hospital staff is well accepted in the community. Jibla Baptist Hospital treated 40,000 outpatients, delivered 1,800 babies and cared for 4,750 inpatients in 1995. Because many Yemenis cannot afford hospital care, the hospital provided more than $100,000 in free care and medications for the poor.