TWA Flight 800 InvestigationShould be Re-opened

12/31/02 | John Fiorentino

[JohnFiorentino]

After several years of looking into the TWA Flight 800 disaster, several things seem certain to this author/investigator. The material in this article comes from a year-end statement posted by myself on another forum.

1. I regard the CWT scenario (as proposed by NTSB) to be insufficient to support their theory as outlined. I will not debate whether or not the CWT "exploded." I believe there is overwhelming evidence that it did. NTSB's inability to pinpoint an ignition source is a major failure, which undermines the investigation's conclusions.

2. Many aspects of the investigation warrant a thorough review, including but not limited to: Analysis of metallurgical limitations in the detection of bomb or missile damage on aircraft wreckage after prolonged immersion in saltwater -- Conclusions relating to the source of PETN and RDX found on the aircraft -- Data used to produce both the CIA and NTSB video depictions of Fl800's demise -- Data used to interpret the FDR -- Review of the CVR (spectral analysis) -- Review of the radar tapes, with special emphasis relating to the "ghosting" purported to have been caused by "Jet Express 18" -- Data used to determine the identity of the object depicted in the Kabot photo -- Thorough examination of the articles analyzed, and data relating to the "red residue" -- Review of debris field database -- Analysis of engine damage -- Complete details relating to the examination of CW504.-- Investigation into the NTSB's failure to identify a private aircraft which transmitted messages to Gabreski ATC on the evening of 7/17/96. The pilot indicated he saw a "boat leaving it (the TWA800 crash scene) in a Westerly direction." The pilot transmitted his tail number to the ATC.

(Note -- Subsequent investigation by this author has identified this aircraft. The information was turned over to the FBI on 12/18/02)

The importance of interviewing the pilot of this aircraft cannot be understated. He just may be the only adult individual to witness what has been coined the "30-knot track" (as seen on radar) indicative of a surface vessel leaving the scene of the tragedy. This was the only surface vessel the FBI failed to identify.

3. Recently uncovered evidence gleaned from a once secret FBI report (BNLabs Report) offers indications of events totally unrelated to a spontaneous overpressure in the CWT caused by mechanical failure. This evidence warrants further investigation.

4. Finally, the investigation should be re-opened. The review should have the proper independent oversight.

[galt-jw]

look pal, if bush is willing to drop the ball and NOT investigate klintoon and the cash for pardons scene, along with ALL the others, he ain't gonna do anything about this.

he is an establishment hack.

[The Obstinate Insomniac]

bump

[Sparta]

Ain't gonna happen my friend. Bush doesn't have the balls to lead the investigation to its conclusion.

[tonmo]

Did anyone else notice that on the morning of 9/11/01, both Katie Couric and George Snuffleupagus made comments (on NBC and ABC respectively) stating that Flight 800 was shot down by terrorists? What was up with that? No one "corrected" them or anything, either. They just stated it as fact as an aside in their commentary.

[OldFriend]

I actually heard John ketchup Kerry refer to TWA 800 as a terror attack.

[tonmo]

Reference: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/520615/posts

[MindBender26]

No, they did not make such comments. Have reviewed tapes of both broadcasts. This is just more urban legend, such as pervades this entire matter.

In most cases like this, it's simply people who have piled rumors on top of rumors to then sell some ham handed "book" and make moeny of someone's tragety.

[tonmo]

Sorry, I witnessed Couric say it myself, quite plainly. Check the thread I reference above for the George S. comment. You have tapes of the entire morning?

[Fred Mertz]

Stuffinenvelopes did make such a comment about manning the WH crisis center when TWA800 was downed.

[a6intruder]

Get your government shill uniform out of the closet and report for duty...here we go again.

[Mr. K]

5). the several hundred witnesses who saw it in-person, or saw the cocktail party video shown on TV (which dissappeared and was never shown again)

[muggs]

bump for justice and truth

[timestax]

bump for justice and truth 13 posted on 12/31/2002 1:09 PM PST by muggs [

CORRECTION = Above post #12 was posted by timestax

[bigfootbob]

I still like to know who really killed JFK.

[I'm ALL Right!]

What is the "cocktail party video"?

[MindBender26]

We run machines on about 20 nets 24/7, then keep them if anything interesting happens. When did Couric say it. I'll check tape.

[MindBender26]

We run machines on about 20 nets 24/7, then keep them if anything interesting happens. When did Couric say it. I'll check tape.

[MindBender26]

It's manned 27/7. Any newsworthy event adds staff.

[Fred Mertz]

Did you review the link in reply #7 yet?

[MindBender26]

If someone will give me a time, I'll look at tape. Link shown in #7 is no proof.

[Shooter 2.5]

No thanks. I don't know a thing about missiles. I think the only time I posted on one of these threads was the frustration that out of all the witnesses that saw a "missile" no one triangulated it to see what was the truth.

Good luck.

[Shooter 2.5]

A friend told me the Greek did it so he could marry Jackie. /sarcasm

[Shooter 2.5]

[Darksheare]

The Onion front page would be reality news these days.

[bigfootbob]

Now we know.

[Shooter 2.5]

I'm just doing my part to enlighten. /snicker

[TBall]

Why would Katie know anything about 800? Disinformation most likely.

[verity]

This sounds series!

[backhoe]

For whatever it's worth, I agree with you.

[JohnFiorentino]

You're giving yourself away by your additions of bogus keywords. If you persist in your disruption perhaps the moderators will see fit to ban you from FR. Something I believe they have done before?

[Asmodeus]

Most erroneously assumed at the outset, because of news reports that witnesses saw a streak of light track to where a HUGE fireball then exploded, that Flight 800 was the victim of a missile shootdown. But that Massive Fireball exploded long after the initiating event at 8:31:12 at 13,800 feet and far lower in the sky. The timeline and location of the major events of the TWA 800 disaster was approximately as follows:

8:31:11 Intact and climbing 747 approaches 13,800 feet.

8:31:12 Initiating Event at 13,800 feet followed immediately by the commencement of the decapitation process.

8:31:43-8:31:47 Streak of light appears.

8:31:47 Explosion of Massive Fireball at 5500-7500 feet.

8:31:55-8:31:57 Splashdown of the Massive Fireball flames.
Source.

Additional confirmation of the low altitude of the Massive Fireball explosion is in the following Airborne Witness Matrix of NTSB Exhibit 4-A.

NTSB Airborne Witness Matrix

Also, witnesses Sven Faret and Ken Wendell clearly stated in their own personally prepared detailed report that the Massive Fireball explosion took place below their own flight altitude of 8500 feet and that they flew over to the smoke cloud it left and found that its top was at 7700 feet.

Additionally, New York Air National Guard Major Fred Meyer also clearly indicated in his own detailed report that the elapsed time between the first explosions he saw - which looked to him like "ordnance" - and the Massive Fireball explosion was only 3-4 seconds, leaving no room for doubt that all the explosions were in close proximity to each other. He further stated in his report that he and his helicopter crewmates all agreed that the falltime of the Massive Fireball flames to the surface was approximnately 10 seconds, an obvious impossibility if the Massive Fireball explosion had taken place anywhere near 13,800 feet as the "shootdown" conspiracy theorists erroneously assumed.

Witness Frederick C. Meyers' Own Press Graphic See "Source" At Lower Left

Note that the "ordnance" explosions were engulfed by the Massive Fireball explosion as further documented in graphic #5 of the following sequential graphics prepared by the New York Air National Guard after debriefing Major Meyer and his Jolly 14 helicopter crewmates.

NYANG Sequential Graphics

The streak of light didn't even appear until 30+ seconds AFTER the Initiating Event at 13,800 feet by which time all of the wreckage was obviously descending. Keeping in mind that the streak of light was the first fiery event seen by anybody, it's accordingly self evident that the source of all of the fiery events observed by the witnesses was burning jet fuel and that their observations were, as the NTSB contends, of the 747's final stages of crippled flight, not a missile shootdown.

Additionlly, there was no physical evidence of a missile(s) attack - or bomb - either according to ten expert metallurgists, four from NTSB, three from Boeing, two from FBI Laboratory, and one scientist consultant. Source.

[JohnFiorentino]

It seems to me, an article posted on FR dealing with the investigation into an air-disaster in which 230 men, women and children lost their lives, is hardly the place to post garbage about the asaassination of this country's 35th President.

[onedoug]

Islamism until demonstrated otherwise.

[Asmodeus]

John Fiorentino to you:
"It seems to me, an article posted on FR dealing with the investigation into an air-disaster in which 230 men, women and children lost their lives, is hardly the place to post garbage about the asaassination of this country's 35th President."

Note the following from his introduction of himself in two Flight 800 forums:

Donaldson Brothers TWA800 forum
From: John Fiorentino - 14 January 2001
As the author of a forthcoming book on the assassination of President John F. Kennedy and in my occupation as a Paralegal, having investigated many "conspiracy" theories, it would seem the first step would be to prove conclusively that TWA Flight 800 was IN FACT downed by a missile or missiles. [emphasis his]

TWA 800 forum
From: John Fiorentino
Intro: Author--Record Producer--Independent researcher & Paralegal Investigator. Author of forthcoming book on the assassination of President Kennedy. Debut release on my Indie record label due out soon!

Perhaps Mr. Fiorentino is unaware that FreeRepublic is a forum for Conservatives, not conspiracy theorists. Perhaps he's also unaware of the following posting in FreeRepublic.

"We kicked out the anti-Semites, the racists, the bigots, the tin-foil hat conspiracy nuts, the America did it crowd, the cowardly anti-war America haters, the America got what she deserves crowd, the DU disruptors, the perverts, the religion bashers, the Bush is a Nazi crowd, the Bush did it crowd, the it's all about oil crowd, the I'd rather support Clintonites crowd, the foul mouthed bashers, the smash mouth bashers, the just can't seem to get along with anyone crowd, the I hate everyone crowd, the naysayers, the doom and gloom sky is falling crowd, the woe is me we're all doomed crowd, etc, etc, etc." [emphasis added]
35 posted on 11/21/2002 0:58 AM PST by Jim Robinson Source.

[Rokke]

Actually, as a dyed-in-the-wool capitalist I fully support what John is doing. He has identified a market, and is trying to carve a niche in it. He makes no bones about it either. He identifies himself as an "Author, researcher and Paralegal investigator". He is in the process of writing a book on TWA 800, and outside of the Art Bell show, FreeRepublic seems to be an irresistable draw to the tinfoil hat crowd. It is only natural that he generate interest for his upcoming book on this site. What I do find curious is the fact that despite all his research and investigation, he really can't seem to draw any conclusion other than "The TWA800 investigation should be reopened." That ain't much to sell a book on. But...in the grandest tradition of circus entertainment, there are plenty of suckers being born out there every minute.

[Shooter 2.5]

What I posted had nothing to do with this thread no more than the post I answered.

The Onion piece was making fun of the people who still don't believe Oswald killed Kennedy. I stopped getting angry at the people who refuse to see that fact and now, I'm making fun of them.

[Shooter 2.5]

Thanks for posting Jim's comments.

I'm glad that he's not interested in dredging up thirty year old conspiracy theories.

Also, to anyone pinging your adversaries, do yourself a favor. Quit trolling.

[RaceBannon]

My brother in laws father was playing in a band that night, and saw something rise up to the sky and explode. He thought it was fireworks, but heard one hour later about the plane. He and his band saw the explosion while on Long Island.

His statement to me, in person, was that he saw NO FIREBALL until a second or two after the missile went up to the sky.

[Uncle Bill]

WE SAW TWA FLIGHT 800 SHOT DOWN BY MISSILES!

Someone has finally talked! Reed Irvine on Navy witness who saw Flight 800 downed by missile

TWA Flight 800 - New Evidence of Missile Attack

TWA Flight 800 - New Evidence of Missile Attack - Thread #2

TWA Flight 800 - New Evidence of Missile Attack - Thread #3

..

• Kallstrom's quest for redemption

• Why John Kerry talks about TWA 800

• Deception for dollars

• Exposing FBI's red herring: Parts 1 and 2

• The fight goes on

• Cracks appear in fuel-tank charade

• The incredible shrinking climb

• All the AG's men

• Demise of the TWA 800 cover-up?

• Silenced no more!

• Ashcroft imprisoned by Reno legacy?

• Exploding hypotheses: Parts 1 and 2

• Imaginary flagpoles

• The collapse of American journalism

• Psychology of a cover-up

• Feds muffle voice recorder data

• Fateful 4 seconds

• Unraveling the cover-up

• TWA 800 controversy heats up

• Cashill's five-part series, "Silenced: Flight 800 and the subversion of justice":

  Part 1
  Part 2
  Part 3
  Part 4
  Part 5

  Related stories:

• Justice Department rips Flight 800 video

• Haunting evidence of missile attack

• 'Deadly Departure'

• New evidence of missile attack

• TWA 800 and official lies

• Investigator testifies to Congress

• U.S. Stinger chief suspect

• Donaldson called conspiracy theorist

• Were missile parts hidden away?

• Is there proof of a missile?

• Was there a government cover-up?

• How government stopped probers

• What happened to TWA Flight 800?

• TWA Flight 800 was 'shot down'

  ---

  LOL! The FBI pumped out their corrupt chests and stated there was no missile, but they were looking for a missile. If there was no missile, why were they looking for a missile, when in their mind, there was no missile?

  From Here
  "The captains of those four trawlers were given written descriptions of several high-interest items the FBI was looking for, without telling them what those items were. The FBI accidentally left behind the documents detailing what they were looking for when they completed the search. Those documents were obtained by the Associated Retired Aviation Professionals in the course of its investigation and have been made available to WorldNetDaily (see related documents, below)."

  FBI Document - Page 1
  FBI Document - Page 2
  FBI Document - Page 3
  FBI Document - Page 4
  FBI Document - Page 5
  FBI Document - Page 5

  Is there Proof of a Missile?
  How Government Stopped Probers
  Was there a Government Cover-Up?

  Portions of a missile used to shoot down TWA Flight 800 have been recovered by the FBI, but have been secreted away according to one military investigator

  Oh oh. What's this?

  FBI Document - Page 5
  

  "Stinger"
  "Eject"
  "Motor"
  "---Metallic"
  "---Cotter Key"
  "Please Page If Found"
  "SA Bongardt (917)895-488?"

  TWA 800 Investigator William Donaldson Dies

  The FBI is your friend, the FBI is your friend, the FBI is your friend, the FBI is your friend........

[Swordmaker]

Uncle Bill,
Your post is very good. However, the second link is about a report on a "navy witness" who claimed to be a crewmember on a submarine involved in the accidental shootdown. This has been totally discredited and Reed Irvine has published a complete retraction.

[Swordmaker]

I see Asmodeus is up to his old tricks again.

He is again peppering a FreeRepublic thread with his cut and paste routine of items he has posted probably hundreds of times before and putting links to his own website as his source materials along with its hosts popup advertisements. As usual he is also posting out of context commentary from other forums with ad hominum attacks on posters. In addition he is adding inappropriate keywords to the thread.

Now he is invoking Jim Robinson as being opposed to "tin-foil hats" and he has been creative once more with a new page on his BLOG site ridiculing anyone who doesn't agree with him.

More of the same.

Rokke and Shooter 2.5 have joined in as well.

[JohnFiorentino]

My book Asmodeus, indicates there was NO CONSPIRACY to assassinate John F. Kennedy, and YOU KNOW THAT. Your efforts at obfuscation are despicable.

[JohnFiorentino]

There MAY be a book, and there may not be.......my research will continue, one way or the other. My stated objective is to see the TWA Flight 800 investigation re-opened.

[JohnFiorentino]

...."the foul mouthed bashers, the smash mouth bashers, the just can't seem to get along with anyone crowd, the I hate everyone crowd, the naysayers, the doom and gloom sky is falling crowd, the woe is me we're all doomed crowd, etc, etc, etc."

How come you're still here Asmodeus?.....aka..Elmer Barr, eb44?

[JohnFiorentino]

"I'm glad that he's not interested in dredging up thirty year old conspiracy theories."

---

Well, "Shooter 2.5"....I'm glad to......BUT is was YOU who dredged them up with your posting of the "Onion" I don't see anyone else here doing that. Do you?

[Shooter 2.5]

You beter check back to those posts. Someone pinged me to this comversation and I told him I wasn't interested. Also try to notice that I wasn't the one that brought up the thirty year old question.

If you think posting "the Greek did it" or an Onion article adds to the Conspiracy, you better check your sarcasm mode.

Have a Happy New Year.

[Alamo-Girl]

Hmmm ... Thanks for the heads up!

[Beeline40@aol.com]

I truely believe that the plane shot down by a missile. I printed out the entire Donaldson Report(may he rest in peace). It is an easy report to read very reader friendly. I mean everybody who happens to pick it up wants to take it home and read it. I do agree with Comander Donaldson that it was a terrorist attack and not a "mistake" by our military. What really impresses me about the report too are the photos of the plane specifically the pic of the center fuel tank itself. It is bowed inward.