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State GPS Tracking Your Mileage and Your Movements
CNSNews.com ^ | 01/02/2003 | Marc Morano

Posted on 01/02/2003 3:43:33 PM PST by EBUCK

State GPS Tracking Your Mileage and Your Movements

Marc Morano, CNSNews.com Thursday, Jan. 2, 2003

CNSNews.com – If a proposal by an Oregon State task force becomes law, the government would be able to use satellite equipment to keep track of each driver's mileage and tax that driver accordingly in order to pay for road repairs. Even the state administrator who proposed the plan thinks citizens "should be concerned" about the possibility of civil liberties violations. And Chris Edwards, director of fiscal policy at the free market Cato Institute told CNSNews.com , "I think it's nutty and I don't think it's ever going to happen."

"I don't think Americans are ready to be subjected to that type of civil liberties intrusion," Edwards explained, "where government tracks them around wherever they drive."

Edwards believes the Global Positioning Satellite (GPS) mileage-tracking proposal is the result of overzealous government bureaucrats.

"This is an example of economists gone wild," Edwards said. "Economists often think of these schemes that seem efficient on paper, but they don't think about the real world and the civil liberties aspect of things."

Jim Whitty, administrator of Oregon's Road User Fee Task Force, in an exclusive interview with CNSNews.com , called the GPS mileage tracking tax proposal necessary because "it costs a certain amount to drive on the road per vehicle and people ought to pay their fair share of their usage."

Democratic Gov. John Kitzhaber and the state legislature set up the Road User Fee Task Force in November 2001 to explore methods of financing transportation costs.

Noting that gas taxes are unfair because of the large differences in the fuel economy of automobiles, Whitty and the task force explored alternative taxing methods to ensure equity among drivers. Seventy-percent of Oregon's road maintenance revenues currently come from federal and state gas taxes.

Commission members rejected the idea of using automobile odometer readings to track mileage because they figured some people would accumulate out-of-state mileage. The idea of raising the existing gasoline tax was also turned down because with automobiles becoming so fuel efficient, gas tax revenues are projected to dry up.

"If everybody had high mileage cars, our road system would fall apart" from lack of revenue, Whitty said.

'Vehicle Miles Traveled Fee'

The solution seemed clear to Whitty.

"You go to technology and you look and say we can calculate mileage electronically, so it can be paid electronically ... That is where the GPS device came in," Whitty said.

Whitty envisions a system that would either send auto owners a monthly bill for their miles or set up gas stations so they could read the GPS transponders and collect the tax during fueling stops. The new tax per mile would be called a VMT fee or Vehicle Miles Traveled fee.

Whitty would also like to see other technologies besides GPS considered.

"There is an odometer sensor which can calculate mileage and then data can be transferred by radio frequencies to a fuel pump. We are going to be looking at both," Whitty explained.

Whitty believes that despite the fears of potential civil liberties violations, the new method of calculating road taxes is needed to make transportation taxes fairer.

"[The task force] wanted it to look like the gas tax used to look like back around 1960 when all cars virtually got the same miles per gallon," Whitty said. "What has happened though is that in the 70s, 80s and 90s, some cars became more fuel efficient and others didn't.

"There was no longer a correlation between miles driven and revenues raised," Whitty explained.

When asked about possible civil liberties violations, Whitty admitted that people should be cautious about the state's use of the mileage tracking technology.

"They should be concerned and they should watch this and make sure that is doesn't turn into such a thing," Whitty said.

However, "that is not the purpose of this fee," he added. "The state transportation department has no interest in knowing where people are going either currently or after the fact."

Whitty believes police may ultimately end up using the GPS data for criminal investigations.

"If there was a police necessity perhaps, but we are not looking at that. That is not our concern," he said.

Edwards remains unconvinced.

"You can say it's not the purpose, but later on it will be abused and expanded," Edwards said.

"We don't need the government to have Big Brother precise tracking systems to make sure the highways are precisely paid by precisely the right people who use them," Edwards continued. "The gas tax now is roughly efficient."

Edwards also dismissed Whitty's concerns about dwindling revenues from gas taxes.

"The private sector is doing more with less. I don't see why the government sector also cannot continue to improve its productivity," he said.

Edwards also believes the cost of the GPS proposal would be too high considering "all the bureaucracy costs of setting up and installing the system, hiring satellite time, running the computers and having all the analysts looking at data."

"Do we really need all that? Edwards asked.

Copyright CNSNews.com


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; US: Oregon
KEYWORDS: control; gps; population
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To: Dane
No, all you did was belittle the fear that our state is overrunning our freedoms...something you are salivating for. And why, because someone that believes that liberty is the ultimate goal, regardless of the issue at hand, posted it.

And I don't need you to mention your loyalties/opinions on every thread, since over the course of my time here you have proven yourself the ultimate statist...the second to last of the boot-licking tribe to not be banned (KC being the other).

EBUCK
81 posted on 01/02/2003 5:02:36 PM PST by EBUCK
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To: EBUCK
"I don't think Americans are ready to be subjected to that type of civil liberties intrusion," Edwards explained, "where government tracks them around wherever they drive."

Sure all Bush has to do is go on TV and tell the sheeple it is to protect them from terriorism..and they will let him do anything. Go on follow me, read my mail, read my email..do on body search my wife..search my car, ask for my papers..go on anything you want.

It is like taking candy from a baby..read FR. Once hardened government watchdogs and defenders of the constitution are licking his boots

82 posted on 01/02/2003 5:02:46 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Henrietta
They want you to think that fuel efficient cars are creating havoc within the state budget...not the case but that's their story..

EBUCK
83 posted on 01/02/2003 5:03:19 PM PST by EBUCK
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To: EBUCK
I don't see why the government sector also cannot continue to improve its productivity

and when did this happen? The gov't is always on the search for new revenues, who are they trying to kid....

84 posted on 01/02/2003 5:03:33 PM PST by The Mayor
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To: EBUCK
Wrong again. GPS uses CDMA coding. The signal level is far below detectable levels. To recover the signal, you postulate one of N different chipping patterns of PN noise known to be used by a GPS satellite. If you know where you are and what time it is, you can select a PN sequence that corresponds to satellite in view. You must then generate that sequence and sum it with the signal from the antenna. The generate PN sequence is retarded by a bit time and the summed signal compared. When both are in sync, you can recover the satellite data. This first level is "chip sync". You must next "bit sync" to get the 50 bps data modulation. Next you need to achieve "frame sync". Once you have frame sync, you start consuming the data stream, parsing the data and doing something useful.

The prior comments apply to the C/A (coarse) channel. The military uses an encrypted PN sequence with a fairly long period (7 day repeat sequence if I recall correctly). That PN sequence is known, but you can't lock to it unless you have the crypto key to modify the PN sequence in real time to recover the data. The encrypted channel runs at 10 times the speed (on the same carrier frequency). The faster rate helps things like ICBMs and supersonic jet aircraft recover the data at a usable rate.

The 1.57542 GHz signal travels in a straight line. There is little atmospheric refraction. Any transmitter you build will affect only receivers that are "line of sight" to your location.

85 posted on 01/02/2003 5:04:37 PM PST by Myrddin
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To: EBUCK
"I don't think Americans are ready to be subjected to that type of civil liberties intrusion," Edwards explained, "where government tracks them around wherever they drive."

I dunno. Oregon elected the bee esser from Hope - both times.

They may just go for this.

86 posted on 01/02/2003 5:05:09 PM PST by nightdriver
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To: RnMomof7
I know it....we won (or so we think) and loyalty is instant, absolute, and unbending...

That's what 40 years of getting beaten will do.

EBUCK
87 posted on 01/02/2003 5:05:31 PM PST by EBUCK
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To: EBUCK
What are the people in Oregon saying about this idea, local talk shows etc.? Are they scoffing at this Jim Whitty character or what?
88 posted on 01/02/2003 5:06:48 PM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: goodieD
And everytime I hear an On-Star advertisement, I cringe.

It would never be an option I would want. I've driven 30 years without having somebody magically unlock my doors when I left the key inside or have somebody read a road map for me.

If they make it mandatory, I'll be getting older cars from that point on. Can the used car dealers afford to install one in each car on the lot? I doubt it. There is going to be too much resistance to this to be feasible...unless they sneak them in.

89 posted on 01/02/2003 5:06:51 PM PST by hattend
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To: RnMomof7
You said it! And the sad thing is that most govt apologists on this forum are men...or at least they used to be men before they gave their gonads over to the government.
90 posted on 01/02/2003 5:07:03 PM PST by Henrietta
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To: Henrietta
Bingo!
91 posted on 01/02/2003 5:07:44 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: EBUCK
Odd that this does not mention the "pay for auto insurance by the mile" idea some of the politicos have had the past few years.

How many ways could this be defeated? Hard to count all of them.

Wanna buy some wire cutters?

92 posted on 01/02/2003 5:08:02 PM PST by isthisnickcool
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To: Myrddin
So what about the parity...what is the initiation (handshake) signal xmitting at?

Couldn't a multi-directional antenna be used to blanket an area at the propper freq?

EBUCK
93 posted on 01/02/2003 5:08:27 PM PST by EBUCK
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To: Charles Martel
Yeah, this has possibilities *way* beyond mere "road-use tax" calculations. Just as the red-light cameras harvest money for those specific moving violations, this gear would be used to rat out speeders and mail computer-generated tickets. RoboCop incarnate.

It looks like you have hit on it!!!

There was an issue in the news about a rental car company doing exactly that...and levying fines to customers who sped!!!

94 posted on 01/02/2003 5:08:43 PM PST by Gorzaloon
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To: EBUCK
"It may be coming sooner rather than later."

Sooner. The commercial vehicles in this country are under attack by the DOT to install "black boxes" in order to monitor location, speed, idle time, driver hours of service, origin points etc. The stated purpose of this is road safety. It appears that this system will be a reality in less than 3 years.

Once this system is set up, then the transition to private passenger cars is inevitable.

95 posted on 01/02/2003 5:09:40 PM PST by wcbtinman
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To: EBUCK
I know but I think we bought a pig in a poke
96 posted on 01/02/2003 5:09:56 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
I don't watch the talk shows nor the local news so I wouldn't know what kind of reception he's getting.

EBUCK
97 posted on 01/02/2003 5:10:05 PM PST by EBUCK
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To: EBUCK
... So do FBI files ...
98 posted on 01/02/2003 5:12:21 PM PST by Bernard
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To: EBUCK
A GPS can simply log information. My Garmin GPS V gives me elapsed time, elapsed mileage, time moving, time stopped, ETA to destination. It also has a full map of North American streets (base map). The data in that unit is visible to nobody else but the user. I can take such a unit and "zero" the trip meter each time you start the car. Your current "state" becomes the target location in memory for accumulating your elapsed mileage. The GPS receiver is constantly calculating your position as you move and updating the elapsed distance since the last "fix". It can maintain a clean stream of fixes at velocities up to 93 miles per hour. That's good enough for this application. Again, all you want to collect in this application is elapsed mileage on public roads within a given state.

I've been building telematics apps for Detrioit for the last 18 months. This one is dirt simple.

99 posted on 01/02/2003 5:12:48 PM PST by Myrddin
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To: Reaganwuzthebest

That was my first thought also, maybe someone in insurance.

I mean, who would most benefit from gps (and possibly accelerometer) data like this?

Insurance and the NWO types..

100 posted on 01/02/2003 5:13:29 PM PST by Jhoffa_
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