Owners of environmentally friendly cars protest at Los Angeles Auto Show

AP | 1/04/03 | GARY GENTILE

[goldstategop]

Liberals who can afford exotic cars want them rest of us to be dependent on mass public transportation, to bicycle, and to walk. This is so snobbish and typical of them - our new upper class that gets the motorcars and we poor peons jist have to do without you know, to save the environment.

[tje]

Good post and totally accurate.

[Chemist_Geek]

Don't your batteries require periodic recharge? If yes, how much oil/coal/natural gas is burned to supply the electric current needed to recussitate your batteries?

Prius' batteries are recharged by siphoning off power from the internal combustion engine and from regenerative braking. No external power connection is installed or necessary. (Except for the optional engine block heater. That runs on mains current.)

Isn't that simply "moving" the fossil-fuel consumption from the place of use to the place of production?

That's right, for the pure electric vehicles (EVs). I'm somewhat less concerned about the emissions than the Greens are - they're SULEV fetishists, whilst I'm looking at that mileage sticker. ;-)

Now, if we were to recharge pure EVs using nuclear power, then they ought to be happy; no "pollution", right? Wrong, they'd still find something to complain about.

For emissions, I don't know about scrubbing technology, whether it's more emission-efficient to have lots of little sources each with a catalyic converter or a few big sources each with scrubbers.

[xm177e2]

The gathering Friday of hybrid car owners from Sacramento to San Diego

Seventy people between all of Sac and Sandy Eggo? Seventy people out of more than half the state of California? That doesn't seem like a huge demand to me...

[goldstategop]

Latte liberals from Marin County I bet.

[Sgt_Schultze]

Thank you for your response. I don't, of course deride your choice of transportation. I do object to those who require the "government" to invest in a technology it has no immediate need for. Those who would buy the products should bear the development costs. That is why I do not currently own a $12,000 plasma tv.

As to you belief that freeing the US from its oil dependency will lead to increased safety...

If you think the Arabs hate us now, wait until we have no more use for them or their part of the world.

[Always Right]

Wonder what kind of fossil feul is used to create the energy to charge the batteries in these 'environmentally friendly cars'? These wackos are clueless, unless they want to promote nuclear energy, which none of them do.

[John Jamieson]

"You gas hog fans"

The point is these cars DO NOT reduce our consumption of oil. It's just used to make batteries instead.

I do drive very fuel efficient Cadillac Northstar, but I also own or have owned many economy cars including an 87 Toyota Tercel that could hit 53 mpg on the highway. I'm hardly a buggy wip guy. I have an MIT Aero/Astro Degree and worked 27 years for NASA at KSC. Now retired.

Turbo Diesel is the economy car that makes real dollars and sense. Fuel Cells may be a long term solution but not before 2020.

Hybrids are not only not THE answer; they're NOT even an answer.

PS: I have NO finantial interest in any company in the automotive business.

Thank you for helping my develope my point of view of the past few few months. At first, I thought my initial view might be wrong.

[M. Thatcher]

Fuel efficiency is the first step to energy independence.

One has nothing to do with the other. As is proved by our own history, when the drive for "fuel efficiency" dumbed down cars at the same time environmentalist twits like yourself prevented us as a nation from drilling for domestic oil. The truth is, regardless of how passionately your ilk quests for the holy grail of "fuel efficiency," the road to energy independence has been blocked by liberal environmentalism.

FREEDOM is the first, middle, and last step to energy independence, to whit: the freedom to explore and use our own resources. It is twits like you who constantly want to restrict Americans' vehicle choices and at the same time want to restrict Americans' ability to provide for her own energy needs.

[John Jamieson]

"impugn the intelligence of those who design, build, and drive them. (I do two of the three...)"

I'm sure that you are a very bright guy, but your involment in the industry has narrowed your viewpoint to just MPG. You need to increase your view to the total energy use and pollution created by these cars over their entire life cycle. Maybe you can give us some real hard numbers?

Please compare to similar cars without the hybrid additions, not SUVs. Those are two seperate choices.

[GreenHornet]

Let em' protest.

One of the main themes at this year's LA Auto Show seems to be, in the words of Tim Allen: "MORE POWER!!!". Muscle cars are making a comeback, with the show featuring vehicles such as the revived Pontiac GTO (really a rebadged Holden Monaro from GM's Australian subsidiary). The new GTO will be powered by the Corvette LS1 engine, putting out 340 horses. Dodge is also showing its Dodge Magnum "Sport Wagon" concept, which will go on sale in about a year. This is one mean looking station wagon! The concept (and hopefully the production model) has a 5.7 liter V8 Hemi rated at 430 HP. This comes on the heels of the revived Mercury Maurauder introduced last summer. Auuuughhhh, Auuuuughhhhh AUUUUUUGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

Now that's "peppy"!

[John Jamieson]

Don't forget the new V16 Caddy at 600hp!

Or the ugly new Caddy/Corvett.

[John Jamieson]

Somebody else has been doing the numbers:

Head of Chrysler Today:

Zetsche says hybrid technology, which combines a gasoline-powered engine and an electric motor, is not a viable long-term technological or commercial alternative. He says "Hybrids have yet to prove they make business sense."

[John Jamieson]

Edmunds True Ownership Costs (includes gas):

Echo = 30 cents/mile
Prius = 40 cents/mile
Honda Accord DX (much nicer car) = 34 cents/mile

Says it all!

[dhuffman@awod.com]

Since it's been a while since I checked, I think they're both 14.5 gallons nominal. The NB struggles to make 49 mpg while the Jetta makes 55+ at speed. The difference is due to aerodynamics I assume.

I'm ex-Navy nuke and spent my career as civilian Rx eng. I agree that they'd find something to complain about. Try bicycling. I ride a recumbent.

[Clay Moore]

"Unlike current cars these cars have lethal battery voltages. Most manufactures plan to go to 36/42 volts in the near future, but the Civic uses 144 volts and the Prius 274 volts. Careless poking around in the wiring is likely to light up some do-it-your selfers! Even of more concern would be the exposed voltage due to a car wreck. Rescuers better be very careful where they use the jaws-of-life!"

The Toyota has three cables underneath, open, in a track that run from the back to front. There are no fuses/breakers inline. I forget what the potential amperage available, but it is high. Looks to me like a foreign object off of the road or misplaced jack could prove to be interesting. They told us to open the trunk and pull the master disconnect before doing any forcible entry.

[John Jamieson]

I think its about 150 amps max in normal operation but could hit a 1000 if dead shorted. I remember several nicad battery fires from my days at the space center. Not a pretty sight.

[Chemist_Geek]

I agree that they'd find something to complain about. Try bicycling. I ride a recumbent.

To bicycle, one has to eat, and eating produces methane emissions. As We All Know, methane is a Greenhouse Gas^TM...

Yeah, the watermelons won't stop complaining until humanity is extingushed. They give conservationists like me a bad name.

[PoorMuttly]

She may "feel" that she's "giving something back to the environment," but she's actually just taking less.