Bob Barr: Crimes before the fact (Police Gestapolike behavior chilling in the extreme)

washtimes ^ | 1/9/2003 | Bob Barr

[TLBSHOW]

In last year's mega-hit movie "Minority Report," starring Tom Cruise in a mid-21st-century sci-fi thriller, D.C. police identify persons who have not yet committed a crime, but who, based on premonition evidence are going to commit a crime, and then swoop in and arrest these pre-criminals before they can carry out their dastardly deeds.

[aristeides]

Since the intent of this nonsense is presumably to raise revenue, the most important thing is to hit Fairfax County where it hurts, and award heavy damages against them.

[aristeides]

Somehow I doubt that the bars frequented by police officers in our fine county are subject to this sort of scrutiny.

I wonder how much money the bars subjected to this scrutiny have donated -- or not donated -- to police funds.

[aristeides]

Barr is also a good friend of FR who spoke at the March for Liberty.

[TLBSHOW]

Have you guys made up yet?

LOL

:>)

We go back to day one if not for Dirtboy I would not be here right now! It was all that breaking news before it broke. LOL

[aristeides]

Despite the presence of the undercover agents, the cops, with typical incompetence, arrested at least one designated driver (according to a caller to Liddy yesterday.)

[EBUCK]

I wasn't defending them I was showing that they are trying to cover their asses by saying that they had a least some inside information as to who to search...which is obviously false by your account and the WND account where they arrested a woman who'd only had one drink and was polishing off her diner...

EBUCK

[dirtboy]

From the link:Others, like Don Armstrong, urged people to reject field sobriety tests, and request a blood-alcohol test at a local hospital.

I would take it even further than this. Even if they have probable cause, they still have to get a warrant to perform a search. IMO they do not have the right to demand a field sobriety test or a breathalyzer without a warrant. And if someone is not bothering anyone else in the bar and is not NOTICEABLY drunk, then the cops have no business bothering them.

[dirtboy]

(have you guys made up yet? ;-))

I don't hold a grudge, I just make the most of them while they last...

[Atlas Sneezed]

Barr begs bar barbarians not to put barflies behind bars!

[Dick Bachert]

[Dick Bachert]

[FreeTally]

Did you search for public intoxication? I wonder if it defines what that is.

Like I posted on one of the other threads, its always been my understanding that "public intoxication" is an observed offense. Someone falling down, beligerent or causing a problem can be charged with such based upon an observation and complaints. Drinking alcohol in a "public place" like a bar can not be considered to be probable cause to be "publically intoxicated". Because if it was, then I see selective enforcement if every bar patron is not "ticketed".

[Khurkris]

The Great Republic of Texas has a group that does this crap also. Named something like the "Liquor Control Board" or "Alcohol Control Board". A bunch of politically connected bubba's & bubbette's who dress up in 'semi-uniform' apparel. They carry Mag-Lites and handheld police radios. They go into bars and 'observe the patrons.' Supposedly they look for violations of the State liquor laws. In reality, they just look for folks who, in their opinion, have had a wee bit too much to drink.

They then, and here is the clincher, ask the person to step outside and speak with them. If a person does 'step outside' with them, they are invariably arrested for public drunkeness. Thats what the radios are for, to call the local LEO to 'assist' them.

The catch is, a person can refuse to speak with them. If some one refuses, they have no power over the person. These little punks are usually the inept offspring of local political yahoo's on the public dole.

They are also ALWAYS un-armed. These little inbreds work in pairs.

Just another sorry display of political patronage.

[dirtboy]

Did you search for public intoxication? I wonder if it defines what that is.

Here are the statutes in question:

"If any person . . . is intoxicated in public, whether such intoxication results from alcohol, narcotic drug or other intoxicant or drug of whatever nature, he shall be deemed guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor." Code  18.2-388.

"'Intoxicated' means a condition in which a person has drunk enough alcoholic beverages to observably affect his manner, disposition, speech, muscular movement, general appearance or behavior." Code  4.1-100.

The statute is rather vague, and is normally applied in the context of some other misbehavior such as making a lot of noise or staggering down the sidewalk.

[TLBSHOW]

great gift idea~

[dirtboy]

Drinking alcohol in a "public place" like a bar can not be considered to be probable cause to be "publically intoxicated".

It gets better than that. It is against the law in Virginia to drink alcoholic beverages in public or to offer a drink of an alcoholic beverage to someone else in public. So not only would they have to arrest the patrons, they'd have to arrest the bartenders and waitresses as well...

[Enterprise]

LOL! A designated driver? Too Funny! He should certainly challenge the arrest with a trial!

Prosecutor: "Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, I humbly present as evidence of drunkenness the following document which shows that the defendant had a .00 level of alcohol in his blood. Thank you."

[FreeTally]

"'Intoxicated' means a condition in which a person has drunk enough alcoholic beverages to observably affect his manner, disposition, speech, muscular movement, general appearance or behavior." Code  4.1-100.

I think all tickets will be dismissed right there with that. Doesn't mention anything about a breathalyzer determining intoxication. In fact, no breathalyzer is needed at all!

[TLBSHOW]

Great article! Barr is right, it's amazing how easily people can be stampeded...

bttt

[BlackbirdSST]

BTW, the few cops I know are booze hounds themselves.I grew up in a family of them, and can vouch that it's probably worse than you think, and then some. Blackbird.