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Connecting the War on Guns & Drugs [my title]
SHOTGUN NEWS ^ | 1/11/03 | Amicus Populi

Posted on 01/11/2003 10:15:11 AM PST by tpaine

Ms. Nancy Snell Swickard - Publisher Shotgun News P. O. Box 669, Hastings, NE 68902

Dear Ms. Swickard,

I was very distressed to see the remark of one of your subscribers which you quoted on page 8 of your October 1 (1996) issue. The support of the "Drug War" by anyone who values the 2nd Amendment, and the rest of the Bill of Rights, is the most dangerous error of thinking in the politics of the "gun control" debate. This error is extremely widespread, although there have been some recent signs that some Americans are seeing through the propaganda of the Drug Warriors which affects all levels of our society.

Sadly, major players in the defense of the 2nd Amendment (like the NRA) show no signs of awareness of the part played by the Drug War in our present hysteria over violence. This is a serious error, because the violence produced by the Drug War is one of the main reasons that a majority of American citizens support gun control. Without the majority of a citizenry frightened by endemic violence, Mr. Clinton and his allies in the Congress would not enjoy the power they now possess to attack the Bill of Rights.

To understand the effect of the Drug War, we must understand it for what it is: the second Prohibition in America in this Century. I do not need to remind anyone who knows our recent history what a disaster the first Prohibition was. It is a classic example of the attempt to control a vice--drunkenness--by police power. It made all use of alcohol a case of abuse. It produced such an intense wave of violence that it gave a name--The Roaring Twenties--to an entire decade. It lead to the establishment of powerful criminal empires, to widespread corruption in police and government, and to a surge of violence and gunfire all over the land. And it produced a powerful attack on the Bill of Rights, including the most successful campaign of gun control laws in America up to that time.

Before the first Prohibition criminalized the trade in alcohol, liquor dealers were ordinary businessmen; after 1920 they were all violent criminals fighting for their territories. We had gang wars, and drive-by shootings, and the use of machine guns by criminals.

We now have the same effects of the first Prohibition in the present Drug War, and Americans appear to be sleepwalking through it with no apparent understanding of what is happening. It is testimony to the truth of Santayana's famous remark that those who do not know history are condemned to repeat it. We must understand that this has all happened before, and for the same reasons.

It is essential that defenders of the 2nd Amendment understand that the whole Bill of Rights is under attack by the Drug War, and that assaults on the 2nd Amendment are a natural part of that trend. What is the main premise of a gun-control law? It is that guns are implements which are too dangerous to entrust to the citizenry. What is the main premise of Drug Prohibition? It is that drugs are substances which are too dangerous to entrust to the citizenry. Both lines of reasoning say that because a few people abuse something, all Americans must be treated like children or irresponsibles. All use is abuse.

This is an extremely dangerous idea for a government, and it leads inevitably to tyranny. It is a natural consequence that such thinking will lead to attacks on the Bill of Rights, because that is the chief defense in the Constitution against abuses of government power.

Since the beginning of the Drug War, no article of the Bill of Rights has been spared from attack. There has been an enormous increase in police power in America, with a steady erosion of protections against unreasonable search and seizure, violations of privacy, confiscation of property, and freedom of speech. We have encouraged children to inform on their parents and we tolerate urine tests as a condition of employment for anyone. All who question the wisdom of Drug Prohibition are immediately attacked and silenced. These are all violations of the Bill of Rights. Are we surprised when the 2nd Amendment is attacked along with the others?

We understand that opponents of the 2nd Amendment exaggerate the dangers of firearms and extrapolate the actions of deranged persons and criminals to all gun owners. That is their method of propaganda. Do we also know that Drug Warriors exaggerate the hazards of drug use--"all use is abuse'--in the same way formerly done with alcohol, and extrapolate the condition of addicts to all users of drugs? That is their method of propaganda. Most Americans are convinced by both arguments, and both arguments depend on the public's ignorance. That is why discussion and dissent is inhibited.

Most Americans are moving to the idea that drugs and guns are evil and should be prohibited. Encouraging one way of thinking supports the other because the logic of the arguments is the same.

Why not prohibit a dangerous evil? If every drinker is a potential alcoholic, every drug-user a future addict, and every gun-owner a potential killer, why not ban them all? There is no defense against this logic except to challenge the lies that sit at the root of the arguments. Those are the lies promoted by the prevailing propaganda in support of all Prohibition. We cannot oppose one and support the other. To do so undermines our efforts because all these movements walk on the same legs.

If we do not explain to people that the fusillade of gunfire in America, the return to drive-by shooting, and our bulging prisons, come from the criminalizing of commerce in illegal drugs, we cannot expect them to listen to a plea that we must tolerate some risk in defense of liberty.

Why should we tolerate, for the sake of liberty, the risk of a maniac shooting a dozen people, when we cannot tolerate the risk that a drug-user will become an addict?

In fact, very few gun-owners are mass murderers and a minority of drug-users are addicts, but people are easily persuaded otherwise and easily driven to hysteria by exaggerating dangers. What addict would be a violent criminal if he could buy his drug from a pharmacy for its real price instead of being driven to the inflated price of a drug smuggler? How many cigarette smokers would become burglars or prostitutes if their habits cost them $200 per day? How many criminal drug empires could exist if addicts could buy a drug for its real cost? And, without Prohibition, what smuggler's territory would be worth a gang war? And why isn't this obvious to all of us?

It is because both guns and drugs have become fetishes to some people in America. They blame guns and drugs for all the intractable ills of society, and they never rest until they persuade the rest of us to share their deranged view of the evil power in an inanimate object.

They succeed, mainly, by lies and deception. They succeed by inducing the immediate experience of anxiety and horror by the mere mention of the words: Guns! Drugs! Notice your reactions. Once that response is in place, it is enough to make us accept any remedy they propose. An anxious person is an easy mark. They even persuade us to diminish the most precious possession of Americans, the one marveled at by every visitor and cherished by every immigrant, and the name of which is stamped on every coin we mint--Liberty. They say that liberty is just too dangerous or too expensive. They say we will have to do with less of it for our own good. That is the price they charge for their promise of our security.

Sincerely,

Amicus Populi


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: banglist; copernicus3; corruption; drugskill; drugskilledbelushi; freetime; gramsci; huh; mdm; wodlist
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To: Texaggie79
People of states, cities, and or counties can prohibit that which is not guaranteed by the BoR and is viewed as a threat (i.e. violation of others rights).
556 Texaggie79

Life, liberty, and property are among the rights guaranteed, aggie. The type of property is not enumerated. See the 9th.

And, we have already disposed of your inability to discern a valid threat from your own fantasies.
557 tpaine


Therefore, you possess the constitutional right to own a vile of small pox in your home?
558 -aggie-

Sigh, -- a valid 'threat' redux, - for the umteenth time, aggie. Get a clue.

-- A vial of 'pox' is a very dangerous substance, the storage of which can be reasonably 'regulated' by the state.
- A vial of some mind altering recreational substance is not a threat to your neighbors, or a "violation of their rights".
I have quite a few such 'vials' displayed in my home, on the backbar.

561 posted on 01/26/2003 7:30:53 AM PST by tpaine
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To: pram
I think I may have made a mistake,
also.
562 posted on 01/26/2003 7:32:52 AM PST by tpaine
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To: tpaine
A vial of some mind altering recreational substance is not a threat to your neighbors, or a "violation of their rights".

So tpaine gets to decide for the rest of us, what is a real threat and what is not?

563 posted on 01/26/2003 10:20:39 AM PST by Texaggie79 (seriously joking or jokingly serious, you decide)
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To: Texaggie79
People of states, cities, and or counties can prohibit that which is not guaranteed by the BoR and is viewed as a threat (i.e. violation of others rights).
556 Texaggie79

Life, liberty, and property are among the rights guaranteed, aggie. The type of property is not enumerated. See the 9th.

And, we have already disposed of your inability to discern a valid threat from your own fantasies.
557 tpaine


Therefore, you possess the constitutional right to own a vile of small pox in your home?
558 -aggie-

Sigh, -- a valid 'threat' redux, - for the umteenth time, aggie. Get a clue.

-- A vial of 'pox' is a very dangerous substance, the storage of which can be reasonably 'regulated' by the state.
- A vial of some mind altering recreational substance is not a threat to your neighbors, or a "violation of their rights".
I have quite a few such 'vials' displayed in my home, on the backbar.
561

So tpaine gets to decide for the rest of us, what is a real threat and what is not?
-aggie-

Nope, a jury of our peers make such decisions, my boy, after seeing reasonable cause of a 'threat' demonstrated in our courts.
-- Really aggie, -- shouldn't you start learning to use your mind before inserting foot in mouth?

564 posted on 01/26/2003 10:52:20 AM PST by tpaine
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To: tpaine
Nope, a jury of our peers make such decisions, my boy, after seeing reasonable cause of a 'threat' demonstrated in our courts.

Oh! I see. So, anyone can get a vile of small pox and do what they wish with it. Their neighbors cant do anything about it but take them to court?

565 posted on 01/26/2003 8:47:31 PM PST by Texaggie79 (seriously joking or jokingly serious, you decide)
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To: Texaggie79
Oviously, either you are unable to 'see', and never will be smart enough to do so, - or - you think you're playing some witty word game. You may be half right.

Bug off aggie, and grow up.
566 posted on 01/26/2003 9:17:32 PM PST by tpaine
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To: tpaine
tpaine, all you simply must do is put 2 and 2 together. It's hilarious how you see no problem with regulation and prohibition of what YOU see as a threat, yet, somehow, think that your opinions on what is a true threat and what is not is some kind of world wide axiom.
567 posted on 01/27/2003 8:57:18 AM PST by Texaggie79 (seriously joking or jokingly serious, you decide)
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To: Texaggie79
tpaine, all you simply must do is put 2 and 2 together. It's hilarious how you see no problem with regulation and prohibition of what YOU see as a threat,

No, its hilarious that you think I favor unconstitutional 'prohibition' as reasonable regulation. Apparently you can't 'add' at all.

yet, somehow, think that your opinions on what is a true threat and what is not is some kind of world wide axiom.

Feeble 'tar baby' reply, aggie.
My 'opinions' on what constitute criminal threats are based on historical common law, and you have no factual basis to conclude otherwise.
-- You however, have admitted on this thread that you sometimes feel your neighbors threaten you. - Get a grip, -- you have branded yourself as an emotional cry baby.

568 posted on 01/27/2003 7:19:28 PM PST by tpaine
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To: tpaine
historical common law tells us that witchcraft can be a threat, meriting prohibition. You have no base to stand on, but of those lies you spout about the USC.

As Rush Limbaugh stated last week, laws must be based in morality or society cannot be cohesive.

569 posted on 01/27/2003 7:56:53 PM PST by Texaggie79 (seriously joking or jokingly serious, you decide)
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To: Texaggie79
Dream your dreams of witchcraft, with 'rush' as your authority on law, aggie.

I need but rest my case.
570 posted on 01/27/2003 8:08:22 PM PST by tpaine
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To: tpaine
I base my stance more on our founders, from which, you stray. Anarchy, is not 4 me.
571 posted on 01/27/2003 9:14:40 PM PST by Texaggie79 (seriously joking or jokingly serious, you decide)
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To: Texaggie79
I 'stray' from founding principles? Daft. -- How so?

You can't make that point with logic.
572 posted on 01/27/2003 10:15:31 PM PST by tpaine
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To: tpaine
I am sorry I have not been able to commece with our discussion - had some health issues which are requiring my attention but I should be up and at'em in the next day or so....
573 posted on 01/28/2003 8:00:51 AM PST by First Amendment
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Comment #574 Removed by Moderator

To: A tall man in a cowboy hat
"Congress has the power to regulate interstate commerce not to stop it."

Actually, Article I, Section 8, says (in part), "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations,and among the several States, and with the Indian tribes;".

Certainly, Congress has the power to prohibit commerce with certain countries, or to prohibit the commerce of specific products with other countries.

If Aticle I, Section 8 gives them the power to stop commerce with other countries, it gives them the power to stop commerce "among the several States" or "with the Indian tribes", doesn't it?

575 posted on 02/06/2003 6:45:19 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: A tall man in a cowboy hat; robertpaulsen
A tall man in a cowboy hat:
"Congress has the power to regulate interstate commerce not to stop it."

Actually, Article I, Section 8, says (in part), "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations,and among the several States, and with the Indian tribes;". Certainly, Congress has the power to prohibit commerce with certain countries, or to prohibit the commerce of specific products with other countries.

If used under their powers to "provide for the common defense", emergency prohibitions on commerce ~could arguably~ be justified. But bans hardly qualify as a method of peaceful 'regulation'.
I doubt the goverment was granted this much power over our rights to trade in property.

If Aticle I, Section 8 gives them the power to stop commerce with other countries, it gives them the power to stop commerce "among the several States" or "with the Indian tribes", doesn't it?

Big 'IF', and I would say that our inalienable rights to life, liberty, and property pretty well cover the right to engage in commerce without unreasonable regulations.
Prohibitional decrees 'stopping' commerce, and 'banning' possession of goods are unreasonable violations of such rights on quite a number of constitutional grounds.

576 posted on 02/06/2003 9:24:45 PM PST by tpaine
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To: AAABEST; wku man; SLB; Travis McGee; Squantos; Shooter 2.5; The Old Hoosier; xrp; freedomlover; ...
An oldie but goodie, and worthy of close study.

Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!

577 posted on 06/07/2005 4:25:00 PM PDT by Joe Brower (The Constitution defines Conservatism. *NRA*)
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To: Joe Brower

Yes, it is. It saddens me that many of the people here at FR will proudly calim their support for freedom in one thread and in the next they will talk about how the government needs MORE power to fight the WOD.


578 posted on 06/07/2005 4:34:32 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: Joe Brower

Bump To The Top!!!!!!!!


579 posted on 06/07/2005 4:50:24 PM PDT by t_skoz ("let me be who I am - let me kick out the jams!")
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To: Joe Brower

There's a lot of my old friends on this one .... some banned ... some not


580 posted on 06/07/2005 7:15:37 PM PDT by clamper1797 (Advertisments contain the only truths to be relied on in a newspaper)
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