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Bring The Legions Home
The Magazine Of Future Warfare ^ | July, 2002 | Carlton Meyer

Posted on 01/12/2003 6:57:14 PM PST by uplandgame

Most Army and Marine Corps Generals remain fixated with increasing manpower levels. What few can grasp is that every dollar spent on procurement provides equipment that can be used for 30 years, but every dollar spent on manpower disappears each payday. To solve this manpower demand, the Army needs to quickly free manpower and resources by closing several outdated and expensive overseas outposts. Closing overseas bases saves far more than domestic bases since the cost to sustain overseas bases is much higher, especially the PCS moves, and the problems of job losses and economic impact are not a concern.

The first step is to pull one brigade, most combat support units, and all Army families out of Korea. South Korea is five times more powerful than the North, and the continuing presence of American soldiers costs $5 billion a year and hampers reunification. Read "The Mythical North Korean Threat" for details. The Army should cancel insane plans to build 1066 new family housing units in Seoul, which is opposed by the city government who wants the US Army out. If Seoul is truly in danger of massive attack as many threat-mongers claim, why endanger more American families? The Army can leave behind one symbolic brigade for now, but it needs to close most camps and bring one brigade home for use elsewhere. This can save some $2 billion a year and free another 13,000 base and support troops and thousands of civilians for service elsewhere.

The second step is to pull the brigade out of Kosovo, which is maintained through unit rotations, so this mission ties up three brigades. One of President Bush's campaign promises was to pull US troops out of the Balkans and let the Europeans pull some weight while America polices the rest of the world. You can argue that they are still needed in Bosnia, but their presence in Kosovo was for temporary peacekeeping. Kosovo has been part of Serbia for hundreds of years, and remains part of Serbia according to the UN and every nation on Earth. Since Milosevic has been turned over to the UN for war crimes by the new democratic Yugoslav government, what's the delay?

In hindsight, Americans wonder why we supplied arms to Islamic terrorists in Albania to attack Yugoslav police, and then condemned the Yugoslavs for excessive civilian deaths in fighting terrorism. At least the Yugoslavs never used aerial bombing as part of counter terrorism operations like the United States. If none of the Europeans want to replace the US Army brigade, just give it back to the Yugoslavs; its their country and their problem. Unlike the casualty adverse US Army, they are not afraid to seek out and fight Islamic terrorists in Kosovo. It's time to send the Yugoslav peacekeepers back to Kosovo to fight Islamic terrorists and end this crazy Bill Clinton adventure.

A third step is to pull most troops out of Germany where they remain over a decade after the Soviet invasion threat disappeared. Germany has the most powerful military in Europe and is backed by NATO; it doesn't need help. The Army pretends its four armored brigades and 60,000 soldiers are in a good position to intervene in the Mediterranean or Middle East. However, it learned during the Balkan adventures that railway tunnels through the Alps are too small for tanks and Bradley's, and bridges too weak. They tried river barges, but that was complex and slow. They tried using rail lines to the East, but that was also complex and required permission from several nations who demanded large "rail fees". Eventually, the Army learned it was faster to move equipment from North Sea ports by ship around Spain, which prove that armored units in Georgia can deploy faster to Southern Europe than those in Germany.

(Excerpt) Read more at g2mil.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: balkans; campaignfinance; milosevic
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To: bob808
"FYI, the "A" in "ABrit's" name stands for Albanian"

Only in the nightmarish dreams of Serb propagandists.
21 posted on 01/13/2003 6:53:45 AM PST by ABrit
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To: uplandgame
problem is that our rulers want to use america as an enforcer for their empire. The americans would rather pull the troops home and be a normal nation, but the rulers don't want that. So, any politician who thinks like the person who wrote this article will be attacked in the mainstream media (which is controlled by the people who rule us), they'll call him an isolationist, whatever they can make stick they'll go after him. Then, if such a politician actually becomes popular despite their efforts and becomes a threat to the ruler's agenda, then this politician would die in some sort of an accident. The people who are ruling us are serious about doing so, they think outside the box too, the americans are being duped.
22 posted on 01/13/2003 7:09:14 AM PST by Red Jones
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To: uplandgame
I want to know what the arguments FOR leaving our troops in Kosovo, Korea, Germany and the Balkans are.
23 posted on 01/13/2003 7:18:47 AM PST by Guillermo (Sic em')
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To: uplandgame
Germany has the most powerful military in Europe and is backed by NATO; it doesn't need help.

The Elie Wiesel types put a lot of covert pressure on the US Government to stay in Germany - they are convinced that as soon as the US pulls its forces out, Hitler's legions will rise from the grave and go on the march again.

24 posted on 01/13/2003 7:37:20 AM PST by Mr. Jeeves
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To: Guillermo
Kosovo - Can't think of a good reason, probably time to go.

Korea - The United States first occupied South Korea in August, 1945. We unilaterally withdrew our forces several years later followed by a diplomatic gaff where we gave the impression that South Korea was not that important. The result was the Korean War. Our presence indicates resolve and committment. Remember how Reagan won the Cold War - he did it by standing up to the Russians while he watched their unsustainable political system collapse of its own weight.

Germany - No need to be in Germany anymore, but two problems would have to be resolved. Firt, If we pull Army troops out of Germany and back to the CONUS, then Rumfield will cut them out of the force structure quicker than you can say DoD - not a good thing. Second, the better choice would be to go to Hungary, but it would be very expensive to build the infrastucture needed. Congress would much rather spend the money on their favorite Camp Swampy's. Then you're back to Problem 1.

Balkans - Turn it over to the EU, say goodbye. I was there in '95 doing a study for the White House. The plan we did was based on a two-three year timeline to get us out - the plan is now complete, so there's no reason to stay.
25 posted on 01/13/2003 7:56:53 AM PST by centurion316
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To: uplandgame
From a purely financial standpoint this article makes some good points. However, it neglects the the fact that our overseas bases also offer some extremely valuable geopolitical advantages.

For example, most of Europe relies on the U.S. to do any and all military heavy lifting -- which basically dissuades the EU from creating a significant military force of its own. This is a good thing, because the EU will start throwing its weight around if it ever becomes militarily independent, and we, the Russians, and probably the British will have to deal with it. Long-term, taking our forces out of Europe probably ends up costing us a lot more, in both money and blood.

In addition, the existence of those far-flung outposts imposes upon us the need to maintain a muscular logistical capability. Had we taken this guy's advice, it's not likely that we'd have had the logistics to handle Afghanistan or Iraq. Yes, it's expensive. But it gives us tremendous freedom of action.

Bottom line: in focusing on the cost savings from pulling in our overseas forces, and excluding the advantages they confer, the author is probably being penny-wise, pound-foolish.

26 posted on 01/13/2003 8:09:56 AM PST by r9etb
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To: uplandgame; vooch; ABrit
BUMP

Good post. Hopefully a basis for fruitfull discussion.

Vooch, know anyone with a good bumplist, Abrit's already here. Guess he still has a job, but as usual has nothing to offer.

I just added Milosevic as a key word, Balkans doesn't really cover it.

27 posted on 01/13/2003 8:32:16 AM PST by duckln
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To: ABrit; Destro
since the Clinton's HumWarriors let the KLA-Jihadists loose upon the population of Kosovo, the civilian death rate has risen FOURFOLD. Time to kick the failed UN liberals out and get the government back in.

After 3 years of HumWarrior misrule in Kosovo........

28 posted on 01/13/2003 7:08:58 PM PST by vooch
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To: uplandgame
"The first step is to pull one brigade, most combat support units, and all Army families out of Korea."

Genuis!

Print it and put it on my desk for signature.

29 posted on 01/13/2003 7:12:18 PM PST by Happy2BMe
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To: ABrit
You may be right that US troops should be replaced by Europeans, but to allow Serb troops back into Kosovo would be to sanction further mass murder by the Serbs.

I disagree, Milosevic is out of the picture and the Serbs leadership is democratic and pro-west. In fact there are already Serb peacekeepers serving in Indonesia and possibly somewhere else. The deployment of Serb troops into Preshevo a while ago is proof that Serbs are perfectly capable of operating like a professional army when they have proper leadership.

Besides, the return of Serb troops to Kosovo some time in the future is inevitable, so wouldn't it make more sense to let them return now when they have a democratic government which won't allow its troops to commit atrocities, than later when they might possibly be ruled by another ultra-nationalist?

30 posted on 01/14/2003 6:14:44 AM PST by Ungrateful
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To: uplandgame
I am glad to see you in this fight.
31 posted on 01/14/2003 6:48:02 AM PST by Destro
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To: Ungrateful
"Besides, the return of Serb troops to Kosovo some time in the future is inevitable"

I don't think Serb troops will ever return to Kosovo. Kosovo will effectively become an independent state.

Allowing Serb troops into Kosovo would be about as sensible as allowing Serbs back into Croatia, or Bosnia.

As for Serb democracy, they are moving in the right direction, but until there is complete freedom of information through the media, TV, Radio, and Newspapers, and complete freedom of political association; impartial judiciary, and police force; and the removal of gangsterism from politics, the situation will remain unstisfactoryy at best.
32 posted on 01/14/2003 8:56:30 AM PST by ABrit
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To: ARCADIA
The Army pretends its four armored brigades and 60,000 soldiers are in a good position to intervene in the Mediterranean or Middle East.

Why not just relocate and base them in the Middle East?

Hmmm ... Iraq sounds like a REALLY good place to put them.

33 posted on 01/14/2003 9:06:37 AM PST by Centurion2000 (Darth Crackerhead)
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To: ABrit; Ungrateful
Ungrateful is saying that the current situation in Kosovo is artificially maintained by NATO forces. What will keep the Serb military out when NATO leaves?
34 posted on 01/14/2003 10:29:39 AM PST by Destro
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To: ABrit
Kosovo will effectively become an independent state.

If Albanians get to take Kosovo, then on what basis will they continue to deny Serbs the RS?

35 posted on 01/14/2003 11:11:25 AM PST by bob808
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To: ABrit
I don't think Serb troops will ever return to Kosovo. Kosovo will effectively become an independent state.

An independent state implies an economy, and the ability to sustain itself without foreign aid. Kosovo does not have the necessary infrastructure for this. Like it or not, it NEEDS Serbia. If Kosovo became independent and foreign aid stopped, the people would starve to death. Unfortunately, independence-minded Albanians are too short-sighted to realize this. This is the biggest reason that the great powers haven't granted Kosovo independence, despite the powerful Albanian lobby in the US and several other western countries. The west realizes that Kosovo independence means they will have to give them aid for the next couple of decades.

Allowing Serb troops into Kosovo would be about as sensible as allowing Serbs back into Croatia, or Bosnia.

Huh? There are already Serbs in Croatia and Bosnia, and they have their own military.

As for Serb democracy, they are moving in the right direction, but until there is complete freedom of information through the media, TV, Radio, and Newspapers, and complete freedom of political association; impartial judiciary, and police force; and the removal of gangsterism from politics, the situation will remain unstisfactoryy at best.

There is all that already. Sure there are a few corrupt politicians, but those exist in every country on earth that can never be eliminated. The fact remains that you can't compare today's democratic Serbia with Milosevic's Serbia.

And what are your thoughts on the deployment of Serb troops in southern Serbia in the demilitarized zone between Kosovo and Serbia proper in 2001? The Serbs wiped out the KLA/UCPMB and didn't commit a single atrocity. Isn't that proof that post-Milosevic Serbia is not going to commit war crimes or ethnic cleansing?

36 posted on 01/14/2003 3:21:22 PM PST by Ungrateful
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To: bob808
If Albanians get to take Kosovo, then on what basis will they continue to deny Serbs the RS?

Actually, I am of the opinion that Albanians shouldn't get to take Kosovo, but the Serbs should get the RS. The reason is that the Serbs in RS have lived there for more than a thousand years while the Albanians in Kosovo would not be a majority today if it wasn't for illegal immigration from Albania, and the expulsion of non-Albanians through harrassment during the last 50 years. The Serbs clearly have legitimate claims to RS while the Albanians don't have for Kosovo. At first this might sound hypocritical but if you think about it it's really not.

37 posted on 01/14/2003 3:26:02 PM PST by Ungrateful
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To: ABrit
There is absolutely no good reason for American soldiers to be in Kosovo.

Not one.

Let the Brits, Germans, and French handle it.

L

38 posted on 01/14/2003 3:26:35 PM PST by Lurker
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To: FreedomCalls
Didn't Bush 41 promise to have American troops out of Bosnia before Clinton took office in January 1993?

Seeing as how the US troops didn't enter Bosnia until 1995, you're probably wrong.

39 posted on 01/14/2003 3:29:45 PM PST by Poohbah (USMC, 1983-1991)
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To: Poohbah
Hey Dood, keep reading. Already corrected in 14. Don't be so quick on the "post reply" link.
40 posted on 01/14/2003 3:45:26 PM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty" not the "Statue of Security.")
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