Tax Protester Told to Stop Giving Advice

Associated Press ^ | Mon, Jan. 13, 2003 | MARC LEVY

[heyhey]

HARRISBURG, Pa. - A tax protester who allegedly promotes a bogus legal loophole to convince people they owe no taxes was ordered by a federal judge to stop the practice and turn over his clients' records.

The order came Friday in the government's effort to force Thurston Bell of Hanover to stop giving clients allegedly false tax advice and charging large fees for filing tax returns.

[Poohbah]

They'd have the last 30%, and that would be that.

[mvpel]

You still haven't indicated where in the statutes or regulations it says that US citizens should ignore Section 861 for determining gross income and taxable income from sources within the United States, or where that section is only applicable to aliens, and I've posted a number of indications that point every "taxpayer" to that section. Unless you're suggesting that the term "taxpayer" as it is used in 861 and its regulations only refers to aliens...

[Poohbah]

You still haven't indicated where in the statutes or regulations it says that US citizens should ignore Section 861 for determining gross income and taxable income from sources within the United States, or where that section is only applicable to aliens, and I've posted a number of indications that point every "taxpayer" to that section.

Did you read the text I bolded in your citation? Or did it have too many hard words?

[Poohbah]

BTW, try checking the superior heading to Section 861: Part I, SOURCE RULES AND OTHER GENERAL RULES RELATING TO FOREIGN INCOME.

Hello, McFly!

[philman_36]

You are merely begging the issue...
Hiya Roscoe!

[Badray]

"Go live in f***ing Somalia. THERE'S your ideal state."

Your best foul mouthed argument to the loss of Contitutional freedoms is to tell me to move to a war torn country? Sad.

[Poohbah]

And your best argument against the income tax is "the Federal government is imperfect, therefore it must be destroyed."

Yeah, I tend to use obscenities when I'm dealing with people too stupid to figure out how to pour urine out of a boot--even when they're told the instructions are printed on the heel.

[philman_36]

Yeah, I tend to use obscenities when I'm dealing with people too stupid to figure out how to pour urine out of a boot--even when they're told the instructions are printed on the heel.
So what did you do? Turn the boot over or hold the boot up over your head?

"Doesn't the Navy teach you to wash your hands after urinating" asked the Marine. (remember that joke, grunt?)
"No, the Navy taught me not to urinate on my hands" replied the sailor.

You remind me of the Marine officer I once cited with a moving violation for excessive speed who wah-wahed to the Chief and got out of it.

[Kevin Curry]

Somalia is a libertarian paradise. Go check it out.

[mvpel]

Did you read the text I bolded in your citation? Or did it have too many hard words?

No need to be a smartass, Poohbah. I've endevoured to be polite and civil in this discussion, and I'd appreciate the same from you.

The bolded text you posted has to do with a specific situation involving a nonresident alien and exemptions they have from certain tax considerations if none of their income derived from sources within the US.

It does not state that only nonresident aliens should use Section 861 to determine sources of income.

On the other hand, the instruction manual for the Code, the regulations, state that Section 861 and following determine the sources of income for the purposes of the income tax, without any qualification either in the regulations or the code as to alien/citizen/resident/nonresident.

[Poohbah]

Did you HAPPEN to notice the title of the HEADING immediately superior to Section 861?

[Badray]

"And your best argument against the income tax is "the Federal government is imperfect, therefore it must be destroyed.""

Show me where I said that. Or be man enough to apologize. You can't show it because I didn't say it.

You said that without government, in effect, might would equal right. Tell me how that differs with the type of law enforcement the federales practice. I have a lot to say about the slave tax that you call the income tax but that was not what I was responding to.

[Poohbah]

Show me where I said that. Or be man enough to apologize. You can't show it because I didn't say it.

Sorry, bubba, but when you call for collapsing the revenue function as a form of protest, you're saying that you wish to experience the concomitant second-order effects.

You said that without government, in effect, might would equal right. Tell me how that differs with the type of law enforcement the federales practice.

Right now, that sort of law enforcement is the EXCEPTION.

With your idea, it becomes the GENERAL RULE.

[Badray]

"Yeah, I tend to use obscenities when I'm dealing with people too stupid to figure out how to pour urine out of a boot--even when they're told the instructions are printed on the heel."

With all the pissing in boots that you must deal with, be careful about whose boots you lick. But then maybe you like that taste.

[Poohbah]

After the IRS seizes everything you own and sends you to prison, you're going to be doing the bootlicking, bubba.

[philman_36]

Somalia is a libertarian paradise. Go check it out.
Samsonite! Still packing others bags for them I see.

[Badray]

Is your entire exercise program now limited to jumping to conclusions?

Just because I advocate ending the income tax, how does that collapse the government? Isn't the Congress capable of devising a replacement plan? Maybe a plan that is readily understandable by the general public; one that doesn't punish the successful; one that doesn't violate every principle that this country was founded upon; a moral plan that doesn't plunder one citizen to fund another? Do you think that that is possible? How about cutting unconstitutional spending rather than raising taxes. How about cutting the size of government and eliminating the waste and the fraud?

But if my ideas are impossible to accomplish, maybe collapsing this government isn't all bad after all.

[Badray]

"Still packing others bags for them I see."

Thanks philman_36. I hate to give KC the time of day.

[Poohbah]

Just because I advocate ending the income tax, how does that collapse the government?

That isn't what you advocated. You advocated 70 million people just turn off the thing and letting the pieces fall wherever they may.

The Constitution sets out how one goes about changing how the government does business. If you follow it, you avoid those nasty second-order effects I was talking about. But you didn't advocate following the Constitution.

Isn't the Congress capable of devising a replacement plan?

In less than three months, which is the time horizon you'd try to force them to act within? No. If there was that big a majority for tax reform in Congress, it would have happened ALREADY.

You'd just wind up with Doomsday hitting while the various factions were still backstabbing each other.

[philman_36]

The Constitution sets out how one goes about changing how the government does business.
Man is that ever a canned statement! How the government does "business"...
I didn't realize government did "business". I thought it functioned.
As an "employee" of a "government contractor" I see how your gears rotate.
If you follow it, you avoid those nasty second-order effects I was talking about. But you didn't advocate following the Constitution.
That's a fine argument. The Constitution wasn't followed when the 16th was implemented!
Or do you believe the amendment was lawfully ratified?