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To: ancient_geezer
It works you now recognize that the 16th amendment is not the Constitutional authority for the income tax, Article I Section 8 is.
I've always recognized Article I Section 8 as the Constitutional authority for taxation.
I know that it authorizes taxes, those being in the form of imposts, duties and levies. I don't get the "income" tax.
And thanks for the link, but I've read the case before...it shows how you are.
In part...2) Not being within the authority of the 16th Amendment, the tax is therefore, within the ruling of Pollock v. Farmers' Loan & T. Co. 157 U.S. 429 , 39 L. ed. 759, 15 Sup. Ct. Rep. 673; 158 U.S. 601 , 39 L. ed. 1108, 15 Sup. Ct. Rep. 912, a direct tax and void for want of compliance with the regulation of apportionment.

As the first proposition is plainly in conflict with the meaning of the 16th Amendment as interpreted in the Brushaber Case, it may also be put out of view. As to the second, while indeed it is distinct from the subjects considered in the Brushaber Case to the extent that the particular tax which the statute levies on mining corporations here under consideration is distinct from the tax on corporations other than mining and on individuals, which was disposed of in the Brushaber Case, a brief analysis will serve to demonstrate that the distinction is one without a difference, and therefore that the proposition is also foreclosed by the previous ruling. The contention is that as the tax here imposed is not on the net product, but in a sense somewhat equivalent to a tax on the gross product of the working of the mine by the corporation, therefore the tax is not within the purview of the 16th Amendment, and consequently it must be treated as a direct tax on property because of its ownership, and as such void for want of apportionment. But, aside from the obvious error of the proposition, intrinsically considered, it manifestly disregards the fact that by the previous ruling it was settled that the provisions of the 16th Amendment conferred no new power of taxation, but simply prohibited the previous complete and plenary power of income taxation possessed by Congress from the beginning from being taken out of the category of indirect taxation to which it inherently belonged, and being placed [240 U.S. 103, 113] in the category of direct taxation subject to apportionment by a consideration of the sources from which the income was derived,-that is, by testing the tax not by what it was, a tax on income, but by a mistaken theory deduced from the origin or source of the income taxed. Mark, of course, in saying this we are not here considering a tax not within the provisions of the 16th Amendment, that is, one in which the regulation of apportionment or the rule of uniformity is wholly negligible because the tax is one entirely beyond the scope of the taxing power of Congress, and where consequently sequently no authority to impose a burden, either direct or indirect, exists. In other words, we are here dealing solely with the restriction imposed by the 16th Amendment on the right to resort to the source whence an income is derived in a case where there is power to tax for the purpose of taking the income tax out of the class of indirect, to which it generically belongs, and putting it in the class of direct, to which it would not otherwise belong, in order to subject it to the regulation of apportionment.

Oops...you forgot some things...

263 posted on 01/15/2003 11:44:59 AM PST by philman_36
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To: philman_36

Oops...you forgot some things...

Oops ... you forgot to include my full statement of reply 261:

The 16th amendment is not the Constitutional authority for the income tax as it regards wages, salaries fees or other compensation for service or labor, Article I Section 8 of the Constitution is.

And look up what Pollock to which the court refers found:

Pollock v. Farmers' Loan and Trust Company, 157 U.S. 429 (1895)

POLLOCK v. FARMERS' LOAN & TRUST CO., 158 U.S. 601 (1895):

Sorry, a tax levied as an excise is authorised under the Article I Section 8 of the Constitution.

Constitution for the United States of America:

Which is why the Court in Stanton Found:

Stanton v. Baltic Mining Co.(1916), 240 U.S. 103:


 

Now we know why I don't waste time or effort making simple statements to TP'rs.

266 posted on 01/15/2003 12:20:41 PM PST by ancient_geezer
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To: philman_36

In other words, we are here dealing solely with the restriction imposed by the 16th Amendment on the right to resort to the source whence an income is derived in a case where there is power to tax for the purpose of taking the income tax out of the class of indirect, to which it generically belongs, and putting it in the class of direct, to which it would not otherwise belong, in order to subject it to the regulation of apportionment.

You forgot to mention that the tax discussed in this statement is upon real or personal property which is what is subject to apportionment at the time of Pollock, not upon the activities of individuals engaged in trades vocations or employments which are subject to excises under Article I Section 8 of the Constitution.

OOPs seems as you overlooked quite abit there.

267 posted on 01/15/2003 12:32:00 PM PST by ancient_geezer
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