China's "Tsushima" Anticarrier Strategy

The Jamestown Foundation ^ | 14 January, 2003 | Thomas Woodrow

[batter]

More articles are on the Jamestown link above. I've also posted Korea in the Vortex for those interested.

[epluribus_2]

I think our strategy would involve long range air assault on their naval assets (b2's, etc.) and killing their subs. Our carriers do not need to even go there to stop an invasion. A sealift over to taiwan would be chewed up by taiwanese fire. This is silly.

Not to mention Beijing getting nuked if they ever sunk one of our carriers. Wonder if the Alaska based defense system will be operational before then. Otherwise, don't by west coast property.

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[Enterprise]

The Japanese also had a strategy for luring our carriers. The results of that strategy are on the ocean floor near Midway.

[Jim Noble]

>>Not to mention Beijing getting nuked if they ever sunk one of our carriers<<

This has been posted repeatedly as a threat.

I don't believe it for a second.

In war, these carriers are high-value military targets. Anyone (like China) who wants to take us on has to figure out an attack plan on the carriers that has a chance of working.

Assuming that they succeed, do you think that a US President would kill three million Chinese civilians over the loss of a military target at sea?

To my way of thinking, it's inconceiveable.

[Jack of Diamonds]

I'll call your Sovremennyys with a dozen Harpoons each.

A few P3 Orions will find your oh so quiet Kilos because they are still made of metal that MADD can find and a torpedo can destroy.

Any fighters that are still operational in their aging airforce will serve as target pratice for our DDGs.

And I haven't even used the CGs, our LA Class or Seawolf SSNs, our FFGs, our Cruise Missle subs, or our Carriers and SSBNs.

We will know where all of their subs and destroyers are from the time they leave port till the time we sink them.

As for the Kidd Class DDs. They are the four best destroyers ever built, bar none. I am only sorry that we decided to sell them.

[Jumper]

If the US were engaged in Combat with China and it escalated to the point we lost a carrier fleet, I have no doubt that the chinese mainland missle silos would disappear under clouds of nuclear dust. Strategic projection chips are now just sweep off the table in a poker game and we'd be playing for keeps with a "no deal" after this hand end run.

[Poohbah]

Moscow recently agreed to sell China the supersonic SS-N-26 Yakhont missile, which is even more awe-inspiring than the Sunburn and, once launched, cannot be intercepted.

This shows that the author of this screed doesn't know WTF he's talking about.

[Britton J Wingfield]

I concur. There's no way we'd nuke a city in retaliation for a sunken carrier. We'd sure as hell rain cruise missiles on any available ship or shore target, but that would be a standard move in any hot conflict.

If China is any good with those subs then they can sink a carrier. Nukes might be used to kill a threatening sub, but not against civilians.

[sd-joe]

"long range air assault on their naval assets (b2's, etc.) and killing their subs."

Unfortunately, bombers (b2's etc) have never been effective against ships at sea, and certainly not against subs.
We should be careful not to underestimate the Chineese. They are developing very dangerous capabilities (helped in a lot of ways by the Clinton traitors).

[denydenydeny]

We've heard this song before. It's a strategy that requires us to be dumb enough to essentially move our carriers right into their sight. Not gonna happen.

[section9]

The Chinese are thinking "Midway", just like we think they are.

Yes, the Chicoms want to set up Silkworm traps. What they don't understand is that we'll be sinking the Chicom fleet in detail from afar. A B-1 or B-52 with a bellyfull of ALCM's, each programmed to acquire and home in on independent targets, could do a lot of damage to Chinese transports. Imagine whole squadrons of them. Meanwhile, the American Fleet would loiter southeast of Japan...

Eventually, the Chinese would have to find a way to get at the Americans, whose fleet would be stationed outside of China's coastal air force bases. Better yet, the Navy would lie in wait for a task force of Chinese missile boats.

And the Chicoms would have to come. With transports being sunk right and left, the political pressure on the Navy would be immense. They would have to get at least one carrier.

This is a bit like the effect of the Doolittle Raid. It was effective in that it forced Combined Fleet to come out and play before it was ready.

The effect on Chinese military considerations of continued losses of transports in the Taiwan Strait will be the same.

Be Seeing You,

Chris

[bruin66]

I'm sure our faithful allies, the Frogs, er, French, would sell them some Exocet missiles.

[Mr. Lucky]

Keep in mind, these are the folks whose MIG-21 pilots lose dogfights to out Orion P3 pilots.

[Jack of Diamonds]

People tend to forget, we do not operate Carriers alone. We developed Carrier Battle groups in WW2. It is very hard to get close enough to even see a Carrier.

Supersonic anti-ship missles sound good. But if we can shoot down Jets going Mach 3 then a Mach 2 missle should not be a problem.

[Rain-maker]

  Sovremenny class Guided Missile Destroyer
   Click to enlarge
 

  Moskit-SS-N-22 Sunburn Missile
The missile was designed specifically to strike ships with the Aegis command and weapon control system and the SM-2 surface-to-air missile.

The Moskit (3M80) is a ramjet-powered missile reaches Mach 3 at a high altitude and its maximum low-altitude speed is M2.2, triple the speed of the American Harpoon. The missile takes only 2 minutes to cover its full range and manufacturers state that 1-2 missiles could incapacitate a destroyer while 1-5 missiles could sink a 20000 ton merchantman. An extended range missile, 9M80E is now available.

[Mr. Lucky]

The need for naval vessels which can stand in harm's way and survive is why we should maintain the readiness of at least a couple of the Iowa Class battleships.

[Jack of Diamonds]

The CIWS Phalanx was designed to defeat better anti-ship missles than the Exocet. Heck, the Wisconsin took out a exocet class target with a Twin 5"38 gun using 1930 technology.

Send them exocets and we will fill the Straights with depleated uraniun.

[Jack of Diamonds]

The CIWS Phalanx was designed to defeat better anti-ship missles than the Exocet. Heck, the Wisconsin took out a exocet class target with a Twin 5"38 gun using 1930 technology.

Send them exocets and we will fill the Straights with depleated uraniun.

[Alpha One]

Since that time, China has assiduously added to its military arsenal--including Russian-design high-performance ships, submarines and aircraft weaponry--to be prepared to defeat U.S. carriers in the event of an actual showdown. The Chinese believe that within a few years they will have this capability.

As the Chinese have Sun Tzu in their bag of tricks and utilize it well, I'd say that they probably possess this capability now. They may just be gearing up to attack Taiwan once we are bogged down in Iraq, and North Korea may launch a simultaneous invasion against South Korea.

In fact, the Chinese just had another military exercise the beginning of this year.

China launches massive war games