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Mylroie: Clintonized CIA Blocking Iraq-9/11 Evidence
NewsMax.com ^ | Thursday Jan. 30, 2003

Posted on 01/30/2003 9:32:30 AM PST by honway

The CIA is blocking critical intelligence that links Saddam Hussein to the 9/11 attacks, a former top terrorism advisor to President Clinton is contending, and by doing so, she says, the agency is weakening President Bush's case for war against Iraq.

Asked about Salman Pak, the terrorist training camp near Baghdad where, according to a number of Iraqi defectors, al Qaeda terrorists have practiced for years hijacking American airliners using the same methods employed on 9/11, Clinton Iraqi expert Laurie Mylroie told WABC Radio's Steve Malzberg:

"There's a huge debate within the (Bush) administration. The Defense Department wants to bring out information like that. The CIA, which is responsible for dealing with terrorism, accommodated Clinton's desire not to hear about Iraq and terrorism, does not want that information to come out. It acts as Saddam's lawyer."

Mylroie served as President Clinton's top advisor on Iraq during the 1992 campaign, and she has lectured on Middle Eastern terrorism and its origins at the Naval War College and Harvard University. Mylroie is also author of the book, "The War Against America," which details Baghdad's role in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.

Just minutes before Bush's State of the Union address Tuesday night, Mylroie told Malzberg, "For any official statement to be made by the government, there is an interagency review process and the CIA blocks (the Salman Pak) information. Their response is to say, the defectors are not reliable - because they oppose Saddam you can't believe them."

What about satellite photos backing up accounts from Salman Pak defectors who describe a Boeing 707 parked on the ground, which they say serves as a classroom for Saddam's hijack trainees?

According to Mylroie, the CIA offers the bizarre alibi that the plane "could have been used by the Iraqis for counter-hijacking."

The Clinton terrorism expert says the White House is partly to blame for not forcing U.S. intelligence services to be more forthright about the information they have on Salman Pak, complaining, "Bush has failed to discipline the bureaucracy. And they have put their careers above Bush's career."

Asked to detail the precise role of Iraq in al Qaeda operations directed against the U.S., Mylroie told WABC, "Al Qaeda acts as a front for Iraqi intelligence. Al Qaeda provides the ideology, the foot soldiers and the cover. And Iraqi intelligence provides the direction, training and expertise."

Commenting on reports that the White House would use the State of the Union address to reinforce the argument that Saddam has been working with al Qaeda for years, Mylroie noted, "I'm glad (President Bush) is going to talk about Iraq and al Qaeda. (But) I have some concern that because powerful individuals and institutions are even now unwilling to acknowledge their error, the case is going to be a lot weaker than it could be."


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: iraq; jihadinamerica; salmanpak; warlist
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 01/30/2003 9:32:30 AM PST by honway
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To: honway
http://209.157.64.200/focus/news/552346/posts



The country's biological weapons programme is believed to have started in 1974 at Salman Pak in the al-Hazan Ibn al-Hathem Institute, where Dr Taha arrived in 1980.

Five years later, Salman Pak was taken over by the Technical Research Centre and, in 1987, Dr Taha moved her team into the new al-Hakem facility at Salman Pak, where construction of facilities for production of anthrax began, among other agents.

At the time of the Gulf war, Iraq later acknowledged the large-scale production of anthrax spores and to have filled 50 bombs and five missile warheads with anthrax.

However, even in its "full, final and complete declaration" regarding its BW programme, submitted in September 1997, Baghdad continued to present the UN weapons inspectors with a false picture.

Iraq approached Porton Down in Britain for the Ames strain of the anthrax bacterium, said Dr Spertzel. "That [request] was fortunately denied," he said.

Iraq obtained much of its anthrax supply from the American Type Culture Collection. Between 1985 and 1989, it obtained at least 21 strains of anthrax from ATCC and about 15 other class III pathogens, the bacteria that pose an extreme risk to human health.

One strain had a British military pedigree and three of the other strains were listed as coming from the American military's biological warfare programme.


2 posted on 01/30/2003 9:34:51 AM PST by honway
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To: All
http://www.jcpa.org/art/brief1-8.htm

Weaponized Anthrax in Iraq: Anthrax spores were not developed for laboratory use alone, but were actually weaponized on a large scale by Iraq. UNSCOM inspectors found traces of anthrax spores in seven warheads from long-range al-Hussein missiles, with a range of 640 kilometers and thus capable of reaching Israel. Around 200 biological aerial bombs were additionally produced.

However, according to the UN, Iraq's most effective biological weapons platform was a helicopter-borne aerosol generator that worked like an insecticide disseminator (perhaps this was intended for domestic use or against Iranian troops close to the Iraqi border). The disseminator was successfully field tested. Dispersal research for biological weapons was conducted by the Salman Pak Technical Research Center. Iraq engaged in genetic engineering research in order to produce antibiotic resistant strains of anthrax spores. The success of this research is unknown

3 posted on 01/30/2003 9:37:29 AM PST by honway
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To: Lion's Cub; OKCSubmariner; thinden
http://edwardjayepstein.com/2002question/salmanpak.htm

Link

Question:

What warning, if any, did the CIA receive from the National Reconnaissance Office concerning Arabs training on the fuselage of a passenger airliner at a terrorist training camp prior to September 11th, 2001?

Answer:

After Sabah Khalifa Khodada Alami, an Iraqi military officer, defected from Iraq in 1999 to Turkey. He now lives in Fort Worth, Texas. When he was debriefed, he described his training mission at Salman Pak, a military base about 21 miles from Baghdad that had been used for the testing of secret weapons, including chemical biological warfare agents, and paramilitary training for covert actions. Captain Sabah Khalifa Khodada Alami said that as late as 1998 he trained an elite commando team, Fedayeen Saddam, in airline hijacking and sabotage. Through a translator, Mr. Alami described, according to the Wall street Journal, a daily regimen of exercises on kidnapping, assassination, and -- using a Boeing 707 parked inside the complex -- how to hijack a plane or bus without weapons. He said that a separate group of non-Iraqis were being similarly trained by Saddam's intelligence service, the mukhabarat. Asked about the plane by an interviewer for Front Line, he said "Yes, there's a real whole 707 plane, a whole real plane, standing in the middle of the training area in this camp."

Subsequently, a second Iraqi defector, a former intelligence officer who defected in early 2001 , described "Islamicists" training on a Boeing 707 parked in Salman Pak from about 1995 to as recently as September 2000. Neither defector said any efforts were made to hide or conceal the Boeing from satellite photography. And, according to Front Line, a former U.N. inspector who worked for the United Nations said that he saw the fuselage of an airliner at Salman Pak which was smaller than a Boeing. Whatever manufacture and size , there is agreement such a plane was in the Salman Pak complex.

During this period, the base at Salman Pak was under surveillance of US KH-11 reconnaissance satellites which were providing intelligence on Iraq's possible weapons of mass destruction, including chemical and biological warfare equipment, to the CIA. The information about Salman Pak was also used publically by UNSCOM, the UN agency charged with monitoring Iraq's disposal of such weapons. Since Salman Pak was systematically photographed, if the defectors' accounts are accurate, the Boeing 707 would also have been routinely photographed between 1995 and 2000 many times. Given that Salman Pak was not an air base, a Boeing 707 on the ground there would have stood out like a sore thumb. It is also possible that the Arabs training on it were recognizable (unless training was only at night or they wore masks). After September 11th, a private US satellite photo company, Space Imaging, went through its archives and found a photo that included a plane parked in the Salman Pak compound.

The National Reconnaissance Office collates, analyzes and distributes the intelligence gleaned from satellite imagery in Iraq. If it had pictures of an airliner, Boeing or whatever kind, permanently stationed inside the Salmon Pak complex, it is reasonable to assume that they would not have withheld them from the CIA. If so, the CIA had photographic evidence confirming defectors claims that Iraq was practicing, if not preparing, covert actions against a Boeing prior to September 11th.

4 posted on 01/30/2003 9:41:19 AM PST by honway
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To: honway
And they have put their careers above Bush's career."

Presidents come and go, but bureaucrats are here for a lifetime. -Tom

5 posted on 01/30/2003 9:41:30 AM PST by Capt. Tom
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To: All

6 posted on 01/30/2003 9:42:10 AM PST by honway
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To: All
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/opinion/baroneweb/mb_011113.htm

U.S.News.com

On November 7, two defectors from the Iraqi intelligence service, the Mukabarat, revealed that Islamic radicals were being trained as recently as from 1995 to at least 2000 at a secret camp in Salman Pak, south of Baghdad. This confirmed an earlier report from Sabah Khalifa Khodada Alami, an Iraqi army captain who immigrated to Texas last May. Among the other features of the camp were a Boeing 707 fuselage and a compound where Iraqi scientists, led by a German, produced biological agents.

On November 11, the London Observer reported that senior U.S. intelligence officials said the CIA had "credible information" that two other September 11 hijackers had met with known Iraqi intelligence agents.

7 posted on 01/30/2003 9:43:16 AM PST by honway
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To: All
http://www.wfaa.com/localnews/investigates/stories/WFAA_wz_iraqi_defector_110120.5adc07.html



Iraqi defector tells of terrorist training camp

11/21/2001

By VALERI WILLIAMS / WFAA-TV News

Saddam Hussein's possible link to the Sept. 11 terrorists remains a mystery, but a News 8 investigation has uncovered evidence that Iraq has been training Muslim extremists for years-- unchecked by U.S. authorities.

In May, Sabah Khodada and his family fled Iraq with nothing more than the clothes on their backs. They gained their freedom disguised as Kurdish refugees. With Khodada came one of the darkest secrets of Saddam Hussein's regime.

WFAA-TV Sabah Khodada shows the map he made of the terrorist training camp.

From memory, Khodada sketched for U.S. authorities a map of one of the best, most elite terrorist training camps in the Arab world. He said he was ordered to work there as an army captain, but never engaged in any terroristic activities.

Located southwest of Baghdad, the camp is called Salman Pak. Khodada said trainees were drilled in sabotage, assassination techniques and hijacking maneuvers using a 707 jet, a bus or a train.

They were told their main targets would ultimately be American.

Khodada's most chilling stories tell of the psychological preparation troops undergo for suicide missions, something the Iraqis call "self-confidence training."

In one exercise, he said, trainees pull the pin from a grenade, then toss it around in a circle.

"Then, he throws it in the air and it explodes in the air on top of their heads," Khodada said through a translator. "Another type of training they will have hole in the ground, and the trainer will pull the hand grenade pin and throw it in the hole (in the ground) and ask the trainee to stand with the military salute ... and not move until it explodes."

Captain Khodada said Iraqis and the Arab recruits from other countries were under strict orders not to mingle. They were even kept in different barracks separated by a barbed wire fence, but the training was the same for everyone.

Khodada described the procedure for hijacking a jet. "They were trained to jump... literally to jump immediately, at the same time, at the same second, to start screaming and terrorizing the plane."

The known facts about the Sept. 11 attacks have convinced Khodada that some of the terrorists received training at Salman Pak. Just last month, however, Iraq's ambassador to the United Nations denied the existence of the terrorism camp on PBS's "Frontline".

"I am lucky that I know this area, this Salman Pak," said Amb. Mohammed Aldouri. "This is a very beautiful area with gardens, with trees ... very, very nice place. It is not possible to do such a program there, because there's no place for planes, for airplanes there."



WFAA-TV Satellite image shows a large jet near Salman Pak.

However, News 8 has discovered through detailed research of satellite photos over Salman Pak that nestled between the small farms is a large plane located close to the place drawn on Khodada's map.

Khodada pointed out railways and a tent where, he said, Iraq's top assassin -- known only as "The Ghost" -- taught training techniques to other terrorists.

"This is a long road along the edge of the camp where, each day, a Mercedes is wrecked while during evasion drills," Khodada explained.

Today, Khodada works as a waiter at a Fort Worth country club. He said he is speaking out to warn Americans that as long as Saddam Hussein remains in power, terrorism will not end.

Khodada recalled the words of a song he said is taught at Salman Pak:

"Why do you have to care about your life? Death is the beginning and the end."

News 8 received translation assistance from the Iraqi National Congress, a group of dissidents opposed to Saddam Hussein
8 posted on 01/30/2003 9:44:46 AM PST by honway
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To: honway
Asked to detail the precise role of Iraq in al Qaeda operations directed against the U.S., Mylroie told WABC, "Al Qaeda acts as a front for Iraqi intelligence. Al Qaeda provides the ideology, the foot soldiers and the cover. And Iraqi intelligence provides the direction, training and expertise."

Wow... finally someone in the news gets it--and says it. Al Qaida, Al Hamza, Hamas, et al are the Arab nations' militant arm. While the Western forces go abroad to fight under the auspices of their nations (and their nations accept the consequences of these actions), the Arab nations have distanced themselves from their forces abroad. The result is the ability to attack and deny at the same time. This means their regimes and territories are not exposed to the consequences earned through terrorism. International anger is instead directed toward the unnamed, shaded "terrorists."

Finally someone is saying what must be said and exposing the reason for Saudi, Iranian, Egyptian, Syrian, Lebanese, Pakistani, et al support for the families of known terrorists.
9 posted on 01/30/2003 9:45:06 AM PST by pgyanke (And where were you 3+ years ago...?)
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To: All

WFAA-TV Satellite image shows a large jet near Salman Pak.

10 posted on 01/30/2003 9:47:06 AM PST by honway
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To: honway
This has long been one of the major reasons for my opposition to war with Iraq.

If what Mylroie says is true, then this country's most dangerous enemies are not in Baghdad, but in the upper reaches of the U.S. government.

On the other hand, she did work for Clinton in 1992 -- so she is as much a problem as anyone else. And may be full of sh!t, too.

11 posted on 01/30/2003 9:48:52 AM PST by Alberta's Child
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To: All
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/744820/posts?page=27

WSJ:One conspiracy theory goes mainstream

Ms. Davis's evidence was examined by Patrick Lang, a Middle East expert and former director of the Defense Intelligence Agency's human intelligence collection section. In a memo to Ms. Davis, Mr. Lang concluded that Mr. al-Hussaini likely is a member of Unit 999 of the Iraqi Military Intelligence Service, or Estikhabarat. He wrote that this unit is headquartered at Salman Pak southeast of Baghdad, and "deals with clandestine operations at home and abroad."


12 posted on 01/30/2003 9:48:56 AM PST by honway
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To: honway
Here are my files that I have compiled on this subject:

"We do have solid evidence of the presence in Iraq of al Qaeda members, including some that have been in Baghdad," the defense secretary said. "We have what we consider to be credible contacts in Iraq who could help them acquire weapons of mass destruction capabilities." Mr. Rumsfeld's presentation at a Pentagon news conference came the day after White House National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice disclosed for the first time an intelligence report that said Iraq helped train al Qaeda members to use chemical weapons. Her words were reiterated yesterday by White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer. "Al Qaeda and Iraq are too close for comfort," he said.

Al Qaeda linked to Saddam

Other links to check out:

Rice: Iraq Providing Shelter, Chemical Weapons Help to Al Qaeda

Ansar Al-Isam: Iraq’s Al-Qaeda Connection

Salman Pak: Iraq's Smoking Gun Link to 9-11?

PBS - Info on Salman Pak

Saddam killed Abu Nidal over al-Qa'eda row

New evidence links Saddam, bin Laden

Arafat-Saddam-Bin Laden Links Surface

Saddam and Osama: A Long History

Saddam 'sends troops to help bin Laden men'

Iraqi Funds, Training Fuel Islamic Terror Group

Alert by Saddam points to Iraq - 23 Sep 2001 Article

Mounting Evidence of Iraqi Link to Terror Attacks

Another item of extreme interest with loads of info on connections:

Ashton, et al. v. al Qaeda, et al.: Complaint (PDF) Lawsuit claiming a 9/11 link between Iraq and al Qaeda. Sept. 3, 2002

Some excerpts for those that are .pdf challenged:

39. Upon information and belief, there have been numerous meetings between IRAQI Intelligence agents and high-ranking AL QAEDA terrorists to plan terror attacks. Once such meeting occurred in 1992, when ZAWAHIRI (EGYPTIAN ISLAMIC JIHAD leader and AL QAEDA officer) met with IRAQI INTELLIGENCE agents in Baghdad, IRAQ over several days. An IRAQI serving with the TALIBAN who fled Afghanistan in the fall of 2001, was captured in Kurdistan and has corroborated this meeting and confirmed that IRAQI contacts with AL QAEDA began in 1992.

During the early 1990s, Sudan’s Sheikh Hassan al-Tourabi of the Islamic National Front arranged meetings between BIN-LADEN and IRAQI INTELLIGENCE officials. BIN LADEN met with FARUQ AL-HIJAZI, an IRAQI INTELLIGENCE agent in the Sudan who would later head IRAQI INTELLIGENCE for SADDAM HUSSEIN. BIN LADEN again met with IRAQI INTELLIGENCE officers in 1994 and 1995 in the Sudan. At these meetings, BIN-LADEN and IRAQI INTELLIGENCE secret service director FARUQ AL-HIJAZI agreed to work together on terrorist projects directed against the U.S.

55. From 1996 until 2001, BIN LADEN with the financial and logistical support of OMAR and others in the TALIBAN and IRAQ and IRAQI INTELLIGENCE, created, supplied and operated at least five training camps in order to create an “Islamic Foreign Legion” capable of attacking their enemies throughout the world. These camps trained men from 15 nations in guerrilla warfare, terrorist activities, rocket warfare, demolition and bombing, including the use of mines, grenades, TNT, nitroglycerine and plastic explosives. Classes were also given in “how to kill a policeman” and “traps, murder and terrorist moves.”

57. In February 1997, BIN LADEN publicly expressed his support for IRAQ in its conflict with the United States stating:

“The hearts of the Muslims are filled with hatred towards the United States of America and the American president for American conduct towards IRAQ.”
59. IRAQ upon information and belief, agreed to supply arms to AL QAEDA and provide AL QAEDA with access to and training in the use of chemical and biological weapons and agreed to instruct AL QAEDA terror trainers at its Salman Pak camp in Baghdad that contained a Boeing 707 used to practice hijacking. IRAQ also agreed to supply AL QAEDA terrorists with new identities and passports from Yemen and the United Arab Emirates.

60. AL QAEDA agreed to provide protection from political opponents to IRAQ and SADDAM HUSSEIN, and to commit assassinations and other acts of violence to create instability in regions of IRAQ, particularly Kurdistan, to assist the regime of SADDAM HUSSEIN. AL QAEDA further agreed to provide trained terrorists, assassins and martyrs to carry out terror attacks in concert with IRAQ against their common enemies, including the United States.

64. Between April 25 and May 1, 1998, two of BIN LADEN’s senior military commanders, MUHAMMAD ABU-ISLAM and ABDULLAH QASSIM, visited Baghdad for discussions with SADDAM HUSSEIN’s son -- QUSAY HUSSEIN -- the “czar” of IRAQI INTELLIGENCE.

65. QUSAY HUSSEIN’s participation in those meetings highlights the importance of the talks in both symbolic and practical terms. Upon information and belief, as a direct result of these meetings, IRAQ again made commitments to provide training, intelligence, clandestine Saudi border crossings, financial support and weapons and explosives to AL QAEDA.

66. IRAQI INTELLIGENCE officials met with BIN LADEN in Afghanistan several more times. A second group of BIN LADEN and AL QAEDA operatives from Saudi Arabia were then trained by IRAQI INTELLIGENCE in IRAQ to smuggle weapons and explosives into Saudi Arabia and other countries, which they later accomplished in an effort to carry out future terrorist acts of violence. A third group of BIN LADEN and AL QAEDA operatives received a month of sophisticated guerrilla operations training from IRAQI INTELLIGENCE officials later in the Summer of 1998.

67. Despite philosophical and religious differences with SADDAM HUSSEIN, BIN LADEN continually sought to strengthen and reinforce the support he and AL QAEDA received from IRAQ. In mid-July 1998, BIN LADEN sent Dr. AYMAN AL-ZAWAHIRI, the Egyptian co-founder of AL QAEDA, to IRAQ to meet with senior Iraqi officials, including Iraqi vice president TAHA YASSIN RAMADAN. Upon information and belief, the purpose of this meeting was to discuss and plan a joint strategy for a terrorist campaign against the United States.

69. During the July 1998 visit ZAWAHIRI toured an IRAQI military base and nuclear and chemical weapons facility near al-Fallujah in IRAQ and upon information and belief, observed training by IRAQI INTELLIGENCE officials of AL QAEDA operatives at the al-Nasiriyah military and chemical weapons facility in IRAQ.

79. Following the December 1998 air strikes on IRAQ, SADDAM HUSSEIN dispatched FARUQ AL-HIJAZI to Kandahar, Afghanistan in order to meet with BIN LADEN and plot their revenge.

81. To demonstrate IRAQ’s commitment to BIN LADEN and AL QAEDA, HIJAZI presented BIN LADEN with a pack of blank, official Yemeni passports, supplied to IRAQI INTELLIGENCE from their Yemeni contacts. HIJAZI’s visit to Kandahar was followed by a contingent of IRAQI INTELLIGENCE officials who provided additional training and instruction to BIN LADEN and AL QAEDA operatives in Afghanistan. These Iraqi officials included members of “Unit 999,” a group of elite IRAQI INTELLIGENCE officials who provided advanced sabotage and infiltration training and instruction to AL QAEDA operatives.

82. At that meeting, upon information and belief, BIN LADEN, AL QAEDA and IRAQ agreed to join efforts in a detailed, coordinated plan for a protracted terrorist war against the United States.

84. IRAQ maintains an advanced chemical and biological weapons program and is one of only three countries in the world producing a highly developed weaponized anthrax. Some time during or after 1998, IRAQ agreed to help BIN LADEN and AL QAEDA develop a laboratory in Afghanistan designed to produce anthrax.

85. In addition to the al-Nasiriyah and Salman Pak training camps, by January 1999, BIN LADEN and AL QAEDA operatives were being trained by IRAQI INTELLIGENCE and military officers at other training camps on the outskirts of Baghdad.

86. In January 1999, IRAQ began reorganizing and mobilizing IRAQI INTELLIGENCE front operations throughout Europe in support of BIN LADEN and AL QAEDA. HAQI ISMAIL, believed to be a member of the IRAQ’S MUKHABARAT Secret Service, left IRAQ to train in an Afghanistan AL QAEDA camp. ISMAIL was believed to be a liason between IRAQ, the TALIBAN and AL QAEDA and was rewarded with a position in the TALIBAN Foreign Ministry.

103. On July 21, approximately six weeks before the September 11 th attacks, IRAQI columnist Mulhalhal reported that BIN LADEN was making plans to “demolish the Pentagon after he destroys the White House.”

104. Mulhalhal’s July 21 article further informed that BIN LADEN would strike America “on the arm that is already hurting.” Upon information and belief, this references a second IRAQI sponsored attack on the World Trade Center. This interpretation is further bolstered by another reference to New York as “[BIN LADEN] will curse the memory of Frank Sinatra everytime he hears his songs.” (e.g., “New York, New York”) identifying New York, New York as a target.

105. Mulhalhal further indicated, “The wings of a dove and the bullet are all but one and the same in the heart of a believer.” (Emphasis supplied) This appears to be a reference to the use of commercial aircraft as a weapon. The information was reported in an IRAQI newspaper who’s editor-in-chief serves as secretary to UDAY HUSSEIN’S Iraqi Syndicate of Journalists. The article expressed IRAQI admiration and support for BIN LADEN’s plans and its appearance in the newspaper would clearly have to be endorsed by SADDAM HUSSEIN himself.

106. All IRAQI news media is strictly controlled and censored by the government of SADDAM HUSSEIN and is under the direct oversight of UDAY HUSSEIN. Various members of IRAQI intelligence work at and control the content of each and every newspaper published inside IRAQ. 107. The information contained in Mulhalhal’s published statements were known prior to the events of September 11 th , and that Mulhalhal has ties to IRAQI intelligence, demonstrates foreknowledge of the planned attacks by BIN LADEN and indicates support by IRAQI co-conspirators.

110. According to U.S. and foreign intelligence officials, in the spring of 2000, IRAQI INTELLIGENCE agents met with September 11 th pilot hijackers ZAID SAMIR JARRAH and MARWAN AL-SHEHHI in Dubai, UAE in order to advance the hijacking of U.S. aircraft to commit terrorist acts. Not long after the meeting, AL-SHEHHI entered the United States on May 29 and JARRAH entered on June 27, to begin preparations for attacks.

133. Instruction documents on an artillery weapon known as the “Super Gun” were found in AL QAEDA camps when they were captured by U.S. forces in the winter of 2001-2002. IRAQ is the only state known to have purchased and assembled the super gun, a weapon so large it must be constructed in segments. It has a range of several hundred miles.


13 posted on 01/30/2003 9:52:38 AM PST by ravingnutter
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To: Alberta's Child
After Sabah Khalifa Khodada Alami, an Iraqi military officer, defected from Iraq in 1999 to Turkey. He now lives in Fort Worth, Texas. When he was debriefed, he described his training mission at Salman Pak, a military base about 21 miles from Baghdad that had been used for the testing of secret weapons, including chemical biological warfare agents, and paramilitary training for covert actions.

Sabah Khodada shows the map he made of the terrorist training camp.

In May, Sabah Khodada and his family fled Iraq with nothing more than the clothes on their backs. They gained their freedom disguised as Kurdish refugees. With Khodada came one of the darkest secrets of Saddam Hussein's regime.

. From memory, Khodada sketched for U.S. authorities a map of one of the best, most elite terrorist training camps in the Arab world. He said he was ordered to work there as an army captain, but never engaged in any terroristic activities.

If I am reading this correctly, the U.S. government knew before 9-11 Khodada's information that Iraq was training foreigners to hijack airplanes usuing an actual 707. If you combine this with the information on Moussaoui, it is worrisome they didn't at least look at his computer. Maybe the reason the Administration is quiet about Salman Pak is that they do not want the public aware of what intelligence they had on Salman Pak prior to 9-11.

14 posted on 01/30/2003 9:55:09 AM PST by honway
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To: All

Sabah Khodada shows the map he made of the terrorist training camp.

15 posted on 01/30/2003 9:56:37 AM PST by honway
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To: honway
something tells me that Salman Pak will be brought forward when needed, like OBL's body, which I have no doubt is on ice someplace
16 posted on 01/30/2003 9:58:06 AM PST by The Wizard (Demonrats are enemies of America)
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To: honway
If these reports don't amount to a smoking gun, then "smoking gun" has no meaning.
17 posted on 01/30/2003 10:03:05 AM PST by hillsborofox (I stand by my President)
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To: ravingnutter
59. IRAQ upon information and belief, agreed to supply arms to AL QAEDA and provide AL QAEDA with access to and training in the use of chemical and biological weapons and agreed to instruct AL QAEDA terror trainers at its Salman Pak camp in Baghdad that contained a Boeing 707 used to practice hijacking. IRAQ also agreed to supply AL QAEDA terrorists with new identities and passports from Yemen and the United Arab Emirates.

Thanks for the information and links.

18 posted on 01/30/2003 10:04:00 AM PST by honway
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To: honway
Maybe the reason the Administration is quiet about Salman Pak is that they do not want the public aware of what intelligence they had on Salman Pak prior to 9-11.

Maybe you're right -- which supports my original statement.

The United States has no business going to war with anyone in the Middle East without first sacking some people in very prominent positions in the CIA, FBI, INS, etc.

19 posted on 01/30/2003 10:04:03 AM PST by Alberta's Child
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To: honway
Send in Rumsfeld to clean it up .... I'm sure he'd thoroughly enjoy himself. He's got the looks of a corporate executioner that likes his job :)
20 posted on 01/30/2003 10:04:39 AM PST by Centurion2000 (The meek shall inherit the Earth. The stars belong to the bold.)
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To: hillsborofox
If these reports don't amount to a smoking gun, then "smoking gun" has no meaning.

It's enough for me.

21 posted on 01/30/2003 10:05:15 AM PST by honway
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To: Alberta's Child
without first sacking some people in very prominent positions in the CIA, FBI, INS, etc.

That's needed, but it's not going to happen. The best we can do is kill as many of the planners and supporters of the 9-11 attack we can find. That starts in Iraq.

22 posted on 01/30/2003 10:08:16 AM PST by honway
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To: honway
There's probably another reason why this information will be kept under wraps forever. If you go back and look at the dates of this Iraqi weapons program, and you consider the speculation that one of its purposes may have been to develop weapons to use against Iran in the 1980s, it is entirely possible that the U.S. was complicit in these research efforts.

In fact, I've speculated that this may be precisely why some of that post office anthrax in 2001 was traced to a U.S. Army laboratory. It wasn't stolen from the lab -- it was given to the Iraqis by the U.S.

23 posted on 01/30/2003 10:08:32 AM PST by Alberta's Child
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To: honway
If it's not going to happen, then don't expect me to take any of this seriously.

Because I won't.

24 posted on 01/30/2003 10:09:31 AM PST by Alberta's Child
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To: honway; bonfire; Fred Mertz; Wordsmith; palmer; Wolfstar
I think Ms. Mylroie does not understand -- or perhaps is pretending not to understand -- that it is the administration itself that is delaying the release of the most incriminating evidence against Saddam. One needs to step back and ask oneself the question: Would it be a good thing if by lunchtime today, say, everybody in America and the whole world understood that Saddam whacked us on 9/11 and is successfully deterring retaliation by holding the American people hostage to his biological WMD? Er, the answer to that is: "No, it wouldn't be a good thing."

It is probably true that there are important elements within the government, such as CIA and FBI butt-coverers, clintonista holdovers and State Department arabists, whose agenda is to resist any connecting of the dots. From the Bush administration's standpoint, such forces represent useful idiots. Bush could put a stop to the whole thing with a single phone call. The appeasers' agenda can be exploited to further Bush policy objectives. This kind of political ju-jitsu is a recurring motif in Bush "strategery," if you haven't noticed by now. You have to look below the surface of things, you have to war game it out. Otherwise, you will understand nothing.

25 posted on 01/30/2003 10:12:49 AM PST by The Great Satan (Revenge, Terror and Extortion: A Guide for the Perplexed)
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To: Alberta's Child
You are correct.

http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news//2001/10/18/wanth218.xml&sSheet=/news/2001/10/18/ixhome.html

Iraq obtained much of its anthrax supply from the American Type Culture Collection. Between 1985 and 1989, it obtained at least 21 strains of anthrax from ATCC and about 15 other class III pathogens, the bacteria that pose an extreme risk to human health.

One strain had a British military pedigree and three of the other strains were listed as coming from the American military's biological warfare programme.

This came as a shock, said Dr Spertzel, although he added that at that time the ATCC had a policy to supply laboratories with credible reputations. The anthrax strains were ordered by the University of Baghdad and then diverted to the bio-warfare effort
26 posted on 01/30/2003 10:14:10 AM PST by honway
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To: The Wizard
I agree 100%!
27 posted on 01/30/2003 10:14:16 AM PST by PhiKapMom (Bush/Cheney 2004)
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To: Alberta's Child
Why Bush hasn't sacked George Tenet is something I've never been able to figure out. I'm sure he probably has a good reason, or he would have done it by now. What that exact reason is, we'll probably never know. I figure they probably cut some kind of deal.
28 posted on 01/30/2003 10:14:42 AM PST by jpl
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To: honway
For months now, Steve Malzberg has been talking about the training camp in Iraq, complete with a Boeing 707 used to train hijackers. Unfortunately, his WABC radio show just serves the NYC tri-state area so this story didn't get much play. I wish he would go national -- he always has an interesting show.
29 posted on 01/30/2003 10:17:17 AM PST by freeperfromnj
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To: jpl
Why Bush hasn't sacked George Tenet is something I've never been able to figure out

We really are a nation of two governments, and have been so for awhile. The leadership of one of the governments gets to make State of the Union addresses and the leadership of the other government get's to decide questions like who will be CIA Director and if the President needs to be replaced like in 1963.

30 posted on 01/30/2003 10:29:40 AM PST by honway
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To: honway
It's hard to tell exactly what manufacturer and model the pictured airplane is. I can say, however, that it almost definitely is not a B707. It appears to be an MD Super 80 or 88, perhaps even a B727 but I can't see the third top-mounted engine on the latter. Either this photo is a fake or somebody has no idea what he is talking about.
31 posted on 01/30/2003 10:44:30 AM PST by astounded
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To: ravingnutter; Aristophanes; Pelham
Here y'go Ping.
32 posted on 01/30/2003 10:44:47 AM PST by swarthyguy
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To: pgyanke
Have you read her book?
33 posted on 01/30/2003 11:04:58 AM PST by carton253
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To: Alberta's Child
Please... just because she worked on Clinton's campaign doesn't mean she is wrong here.
34 posted on 01/30/2003 11:06:13 AM PST by carton253
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To: All
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gunning/interviews/khodada.html

Sabah Khodada was a captain in the Iraqi army from 1982 to 1992. He worked at what he describes as a highly secret terrorist training camp at Salman Pak

35 posted on 01/30/2003 11:09:57 AM PST by honway
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To: carton253
No... what did I miss?
36 posted on 01/30/2003 11:10:11 AM PST by pgyanke (Liberalism sucks)
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To: All

37 posted on 01/30/2003 11:12:38 AM PST by honway
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To: honway
From #35

Sabah Khodada was a captain in the Iraqi army from 1982 to 1992. He worked at what he describes as a highly secret terrorist training camp at Salman Pak (see Khodada's hand-drawn map of the camp), an area south of Baghdad. In this translated interview, conducted in association with The New York Times on Oct. 14, 2001, Khodada describes what went on at Salman Pak, including details on training hijackers. He emigrated to the U.S. in May 2001. (Editor's Note: Although U.S. officials acknowledge terrorists were trained at Salman Pak, they say it is unlikely that these activities were related to the Sept. 11 attacks. It should also be noted that the two defectors interviewed for this report have been brought to FRONTLINE's attention by members of the Iraqi National Congress (INC), a dissident organization seeking to overthrow Saddam Hussein.)
38 posted on 01/30/2003 11:14:53 AM PST by honway
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To: hillsborofox
If these reports don't amount to a smoking gun, then "smoking gun" has no meaning.

They continue to request the "Smoking Gun" without realizing what they are asking for. A "Smoking Gun" is after the fact. There aren't many retired gunfighters around that have seen a smoking gun.

39 posted on 01/30/2003 11:16:55 AM PST by NJJ
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To: honway
"the terrorist training camp near Baghdad where, according to a number of Iraqi defectors, al Qaeda terrorists have practiced for years hijacking American airliners using the same methods employed on 9/11"

Hmmmm ...?? Isn't this the information Powell will be presenting to the UN ...??

If so, then how is the CIA restricting this information ..??
40 posted on 01/30/2003 11:18:56 AM PST by CyberAnt ( Syracuse where are you?)
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To: pgyanke
Everything...

Her book traces the involvement of Iraq in the first WTC bombing. She explains how the NYC Police and Attorney's office were pursuing the Iraqi angle until the Clinton Administration shut them down without any state ties.

She explains that up until 1994, the US believed all terrorism was state sponsored, but because the Clinton Administration would not confront Iraq, they changed terrorism into shadowy figures.

She also looks into the Khobar Towers and the embassy bombings and shows the link between Iraq and Al Qu'eda. She says that Saudi and Kuwaiti intelligence told the Clinton administration that Al Qu'eda was fronting for Iraq and the Mossad backed them up... but the Clinton administration didn't want to hear it and so ignored it.

Like I said, the book is very well researched.

41 posted on 01/30/2003 11:20:37 AM PST by carton253
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To: astounded
I can say, however, that it almost definitely is not a B707

I agree. It would be helpful to know the date on the satellite photo. Nothing would prohibit Saddam from changing training equipment, since no U.S. passenger airline flies the 707. Maybe the defectors are not experts in aircraft ID or the translator got it wrong.It is a good catch,however. Thanks.

42 posted on 01/30/2003 11:21:51 AM PST by honway
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To: pgyanke
Let me try that post again...

Her book traces the involvement of Iraq in the first WTC bombing. She explains how the NYC Police and Attorney's office were pursuing the Iraqi angle until the Clinton Administration shut them down.

She explains that up until 1994, the US believed all terrorism was state sponsored, but because the Clinton Administration would not confront Iraq, they changed terrorism into shadowy figures without any state ties.

She also looks into the Khobar Towers and the embassy bombings and shows the link between Iraq and Al Qu'eda. She says that Saudi and Kuwaiti intelligence told the Clinton administration that Al Qu'eda was fronting for Iraq and the Mossad backed them up... but the Clinton administration didn't want to hear it and so ignored it.

Like I said, the book is very well researched.

43 posted on 01/30/2003 11:22:40 AM PST by carton253
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To: pgyanke
Book Review

Study of Revenge: Saddam Hussein's Unfinished War Against America. By Laurie Mylroie. Washington, D.C.: The AEI Press, 2000. Photographs. Index. Pp. 321. $24.95. ISBN 0-84474127-2

by Mark D. Mandeles

Mark D. Mandeles is president of the J. de Bloch Group, a firm specializing in historical and national security policy analysis. He is the author and co-author of books, book chapters, encyclopedia entries, and journal articles about military acquisition policy, military innovation, military history, command and control, proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, and the future of war.

Study of Revenge
The groundbreaking new book by Laurie Mylroie, Study of Revenge: Saddam Hussein's Unfinished War Against America, is a "must read" for the U.S. national security community and especially for the new George W. Bush foreign policy and defense team. Over the last eight years, Clinton Administration national security officials argued that loose networks of "non-state actors" (e.g. Muslim groups and extremists, such as Islamic Jihad and Osama bin Laden) were responsible for violent attacks on Americans. Mylroie, an expert in Middle East politics, societies, and culture, and publisher of the online newsletter Iraq News, explodes this argument. She argues that recent horrific acts of terrorism committed against American citizens and interests are more likely to have been ordered by Saddam Hussein and organized by Iraqi intelligence officials. Mylroie acknowledges that some Muslim extremists, particularly bin Laden, may cooperate with Iraq on particular missions. However, the capabilities and resources of a state, which range from diplomatic privileges to the organizational ability to coordinate diverse activities, are much greater than those that may be built and commanded by non-state actors.

Mylroie performs the type of analysis of the World Trade Center bombing and the attempted bombing of the New York City United Nations building that one would have hoped the U.S. government had done. She meticulously examines telephone, passport, and airline records to demonstrate that the U.S. Department of Justice (DoJ) prosecution of the cases was flawed conceptually. The DoJ prematurely (that is, before evidence was gathered and analyzed) decided that the World Trade Center bombing was a criminal act of individuals. Little DoJ effort was made to examine the evidence in the context of whether there was a state sponsor, nor did the DoJ seek to apply the resources of national security agencies to determine who organized the attack. Hence, the way the prosecution conceived and "bureaucratically compartmented" the case prevented achieving an understanding of who masterminded the terrorist acts. It is ironic that James Steinberg, deputy national security adviser from December 1996 to August 2000, recently lamented the lack of interagency coordination for dealing with problems such as terrorism. He concluded that, "Organization cannot replace strategic thinking. But bad organization can make it difficult to respond imaginatively and effectively to the needs of today."1 Applied to the Clinton Administration's Iraq policy, Mylroie would agree: policy has been plagued by an abundance of bad strategic thinking and bad organization.

This reviewer believes that Mylroie has correctly pinpointed Saddam Hussein as the source of terrorist attacks on Americans, including the World Trade Center bombing and the attempted assassination of former president George H. W. Bush. The Clinton administration, wittingly or unwittingly, has chosen the path of self-delusion: to not investigate the matter seriously. In this way, unpleasant policy options have not been articulated and discussed. Yet, the failure of U.S. officials to address the question of state sponsorship of terrorism will have significant future costs. It encourages future terrorist attacks by eliminating the costs of retribution from the calculations of leaders such as Saddam Hussein.

The decision by President George H. W. Bush and his aides in February 1991 to allow Saddam Hussein to remain in office and not to fully destroy his military forces has bedeviled the foreign policy of President Bill Clinton. Americans may have thought the war was over, but Saddam Hussein does not agree: economic sanctions remain and American and British aircraft attack selected sites. Indeed, Saddam continues his programs to acquire and stockpile nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons (and the means to deliver them), just as he threatens the U.S., its interests, and its allies. A Foreign Broadcast Information Service translation of a 25 November 2000 speech has Saddam Hussein saying: "Had not Iraq stood fast and made sacrifices for eight years during Al-Qadisiyah [the Iran-Iraq War], and for eleven years during the Mother of Battles [Persian Gulf War and its aftermath], it would have been destroyed and we would have been turned into refugees. . . . The Arab people have not so far fulfilled their duties. They are called upon to target U.S. and Zionist interests everywhere and target those who protect these interests." Saddam is telling his listeners, clearly and directly, his intentions.

Mylroie's analysis points to very difficult policy debates for President George W. Bush's aides. How is an American administration to respond to surreptitious acts of war? Do nothing? Issue threats (and do nothing)? Complain to world leaders at the United Nations? Seek to impose new or harsher economic and trade sanctions? Attack selected Iraqi sites with cruise missiles or precision-guided munitions (at night to reduce the likelihood of collateral damage and casualties)? Seek to build another international coalition to permit a naval, ground, and air campaign against Saddam Hussein's regime and military forces? Could the U.S. persuade the regimes of Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and other Persian Gulf States to offer bases for offensive military action? Would the U.S. occupy Iraq and assume the task of creating a democratic state from the ruins of an authoritarian dictatorship? The policy and military options will not be easy to implement.

In the penultimate paragraph Mylroie concludes: "Given how decisive America's defeat of Iraq seemed in 1991, Saddam has accomplished a significant part of his program. He has secured the critical goal of ending UN weapons inspections, and he is now free to rebuild an arsenal of unconventional armaments. he has also succeeded in thoroughly confusing America as to the nature of the terrorist threat it has faced since the World Trade Center bombing. He is free, it would appear, to carry out more terrorist attacks, possibly even unconventional terrorism, as long as he can make it appear to be the work of a loose network of Muslim extremists." And thus Laurie Mylroie predicts Saddam Hussein will continue to attack American citizens and interests. At a minimum, we should expect attempted bombings and other attacks in the year 2001 and beyond. And so, the question about Saddam Hussein remains, what is to be done?

The dust jacket of Study of Revenge lists laudatory comments from former Director of Central Intelligence R. James Woolsey, former Assistant Secretary of Defense Richard N. Perle, former Under Secretary of Defense for Policy Paul Wolfowitz, former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Jeanne J. Kirkpatrick, former CIA chief of counterterrorism Vincent Cannistraro, and the former director of the New York FBI Office James M. Fox. And these comments are well-earned. Study of Revenge reads well and it sets a new high standard for investigative literature; it is the product of thorough and painstaking research, and its conclusions are sobering.

Notes

  1 The Washington Post, 2 January 2001.

© 2000 Middle East Intelligence Bulletin. All rights reserved.

44 posted on 01/30/2003 11:25:00 AM PST by The Great Satan (Revenge, Terror and Extortion: A Guide for the Perplexed)
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To: pgyanke

Praise for

STUDY OF REVENGE:
SADDAM HUSSEIN’S UNFINISHED WAR AGAINST AMERICA

"In this brilliant and brave book Laurie Mylroie shows that a thorough, incisive, solitary scholar can be worth far more than battalions of bureaucrats. Not only does she make a sound case that Saddam was key in the attempt to topple the World Trade Center, she casts fundamental doubt on the Clinton Administration’s single-minded emphasis on arresting and prosecuting individual terrorists: ‘combating malaria by swatting mosquitoes.’ Anyone who wishes to continue to deal with Saddam by ignoring his role in international terrorism, declaring that he’s "in his box," and giving only office furniture to the Iraqi Resistance now has the staggering task of trying to refute this superb work."

R. James Woolsey, Director of Central Intelligence, 1993-1995

 

"Move over, Tom Clancy, Laurie Mylroie has written the year’s thriller. Based on a thorough examination of the evidence, she painstakingly reconstructs the plot to blow up the World Trade Center and comes to a startling conclusion. When you get to the end and plan on reading straight through because you can’t put it down your first reaction is to call the FBI and report an unsolved crime ripe for a new investigation. This splendid and wholly convincing book should form the basis for urgent Senate and House hearings to get to the bottom of the case: was Saddam Hussein behind the greatest terrorist plot in American history? If Laurie Mylroie is right we will face an even bigger question: what to do about it."

Richard Perle, Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Policy, 1981-1987

 

"Laurie Mylroie’s provocative and disturbing book argues powerfully that the shadowy mastermind of the 1993 bombing of New York’s World Trade Center, Ramzi Yousef, was in fact an agent of Iraqi intelligence. If so, what would that tell us about the extent of Saddam Hussein’s ambitions? How would it change our view of Iraq’s continuing efforts to retain weapons of mass destruction and to acquire new ones? How would it affect our judgments about the collapse of U.S. policy toward Iraq and the need for a fundamentally new policy? These are questions that urgently need to be answered."

Paul Wolfowitz, Dean, School of Advanced International Studies, The Johns Hopkins University; Under Secretary of Defense for Policy, 1989-1993

 

"Study of Revenge is a fascinating book. Laurie Mylroie understands that what we do not yet know about terrorism, crime, and war may be more important to our security than what we know. Mylroie describes the major terrorist bombings of the Century and the major terrorists. Her book is bold and does not hesitate to name names and make charges. An unnamed intelligence source seems to speak for her, ‘The finger of suspicion points straight at Saddam.’"

Jeane J. Kirkpatrick, U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations, 1981-1985

 

"Study of Revenge is one of the most brilliant pieces of research and scholarship in this area that I have ever read. Mylroie provides analysis that uncovers linkages that I believe the U.S. government investigators failed to notice. Her unique research and analytical talents, her considerable expertise in the Arab world, and her persistence in following the complicated and often hidden threads of the World Trade Center bombing result in both vivid exposition and brilliant conclusions. The alarms she raises about Saddam Hussein’s intentions to generate terrorism in the United States are as well founded as they are alarming."

Vincent Cannistraro, former Chief of Counterterrorism Operations, CIA

 

"I regard Mylroie as one of the world-class experts regarding Islam and the World Trade Center bombing and her book, Study of Revenge, is one of the most comprehensive and best-researched reviews of the bombing investigation."

James M. Fox, former director, New York FBI Office

 

"In a new book, "Study of Revenge", Laurie Mylroie, one of America’s leading experts on Iraq, comes to a startling conclusion. She contends the wave of terrorism directed at the U.S. that began with the bombing of the World Trade Center in New York in 1993 was not, as we have been so often told, the work of some loose gangs of terrorists operating outside control of any government and therefore impossible for America to detect and destroy. She believes and explains why in fascinating detail that the attacks are part of ongoing warfare by terrorism conducted by Saddam against the U.S. since the invasion of Kuwait. There is a mountain of information about Saddam and his ways in this book."

A. M. Rosenthal, nationally syndicated columnist

45 posted on 01/30/2003 11:26:17 AM PST by The Great Satan (Revenge, Terror and Extortion: A Guide for the Perplexed)
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To: carton253
Impressive... and par for the course. Any information that would require the Clinton Administration to act was suppressed. They continue to claim to be the best administration in history simply because, in their minds, they didn't screw up. They are most thankful they didn't actually have to make major world decisions.

Another example of this squelching of information requiring action is Clinton's complicity in N. Korea. As has been well-posted here, N. Korea's nuclear program was advanced enough to have a produced weapon when we signed the Agreed Upon Framework.

They just kicked the can down the road...
46 posted on 01/30/2003 11:27:52 AM PST by pgyanke (Thanks for the info)
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To: honway
I heard that interview and was almost reduced to punching my own dashboard.
47 posted on 01/30/2003 11:30:21 AM PST by Petronski (I'm not always cranky.)
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To: The Great Satan
Thanks for the info! I posted the following on another thread this morning...

It occurs to me that there is a significant lesson to be learned from the Israeli victories and our victory in the Gulf War. The lesson is on the Arab (specifically, Islamic) mentality of the sovereignty of their temporal god.

Islam grew out of the history of the Arab world and includes many of the old superstitions and ritualistic behavior. In a time of pantheism, warlords spread their own religious beliefs (usually endowing themselves with some sort of divine power) through conquest. The triumph of a warlord demonstrated the superiority of his god and the conquered were required to convert or die. This, obviously for those who have studied Islamic history, carried into Muhammedeen theology as well. Islam is a religion which seeks world domination and conversion by faith or by sword.

The Jews were one indiginous group who were never conquered and never converted. This fact alone has made them the most hated race to the Islamists. It doesn't do homage to their god to have a subculture in their midst who will not be assimilated (resistance isn't futile?).

Carry this forward to the modern times and the creation of Israel as a state. The Arabs fought hard to prevent this from happening and terrorist attacks far predate statehood. What it did serve to do, though, is bring all of the Islamic and Arab (no, they aren't perfectly synonymous) resentment and fear to bear on a national entity. They now had an official enemy to oppose rather than a subculture to loathe. They attacked almost immediately. They lost. This is key... THEY NEVER ACKNOWLEDGE THEIR DEFEAT. Instead, they lay in wait for a time to continue the conflict. That time came in 1967... and we all know the devastating outcome of this confrontation. To all the world the Arabs were soundly defeated. To the Arab world, acknowledging that fact is acknowledging that the God of the Jews is stronger than the god of Islam.

They did not capitulate. Instead, they spent their years again continuing the conflict and biding their time to squash Israel. Having lost (uh, not succeeded yet) against Israel on the battlefield, their efforts have turned resoundingly to world opinion and instigation through terror.

How does this apply to Iraq and Saddam Hussein? He has never acknowledged his defeat in the Gulf War. It is the same Arab mentality faced by Israel. Rather than admit defeat, he treats the action as unresolved. He portrays himself as the man who looked the greatest power of the world in the face and kept them from invading. Daily, he continues the assault on coalition forces and bides his time for his next opportunity. Very few truly doubt that the war will continue on the nuclear stage if his development efforts are successful.

Usama Bin Laden is another example. He is likely dead (or at least very scared) or he would come to the fore to inspire the troops. The best they can do is oblique communiques to suggest his continued habitation of the physical world. To do otherwise is to admit defeat. The uprisings in Afghanistan serve the purpose of demonstrating that the war is not over and there has been no victor yet.

Iraq is the linchpin of terror, that is why you see such hysteria from the terror masters at our prospects for war. A resounding defeat of an Arab country would be a significant insult to the more strident militaristic Islamists. That is also why you see such a push from our president. He understands that the conflict continues to rage and that this emboldens our enemies to take actions such as 9/11. It's time to put Saddam away for good and put to rest the "undefeated" Arabs. Only after suffering an unmitigated humiliation can a true dialogue take place.

The prospects for war with Saddam are real and they aren't pleasant. In doing nothing, we invite attack in the "continuing" conflict. In attacking, we may ensure that the Arab world will seek to "keep the fight alive" through terror so they never have to admit defeat.

The fight is real, our cause is just and backing down is not an option.
48 posted on 01/30/2003 11:34:42 AM PST by pgyanke (Seems to dovetail...)
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To: carton253
But it will always make people like me call her credibility into question. As well it should.

You don't associate with @ssholes and then expect to keep your reputation intact.

49 posted on 01/30/2003 11:35:13 AM PST by Alberta's Child
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To: honway
and if the President needs to be replaced like in 1963.

And in 1974?

What about 1992-3?

50 posted on 01/30/2003 11:39:33 AM PST by aristeides
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