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It is time to put the shuttle program to rest. It has been a noble but flawed program for NASA in particular and space exploration-exploitation for America and for mankind in general.

The concept of the Shuttle--a reusable orbiting payload vehicle sounds like a good idea but it has never worked out with with our current technological and budget limits.

Simply put NASA has placed all its eggs in the Space Shuttle program and because of that our rocket technology and space exploration program has suffered. The Russians are still a generation ahead of us on rockets because they still produce them and rely on them.

Disposable rockets are 10 times cheaper and 100 times more structurally sound than a reusable space shuttle.

In addition the cargo bay of the space shuttle limits the payload capacity of the shuttle while on disposable rockets the payload is theoretically unlimited.

PS: A story I heard about the approach of the Russian and NASA space programs is very illuminating. The story goes like this, when a Russian space agency official was told by a proud NASA official about the expense and effort of its engineers that goes into desgining even the so called astronaut or space pen that allows it to be used in zero gravity the Russian replied "we use pencils."

It is time to start using disposable-reliable space vehicles and open up space to private industry.

For starters I would ask congress to authorize a bounty that it would reimburse any private organization that would send a manned mission to Mars and return its crew to Earth safely that would cover all expenses plus 15%.

Competition to Mars would capture and ignite the world's imagination.

1 posted on 02/01/2003 8:02:03 PM PST by Destro
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I welcome all comments-thoughts.
2 posted on 02/01/2003 8:02:32 PM PST by Destro
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To: Destro
It is time to start using disposable-reliable space vehicles and open up space to private industry.

Open space to private industry yes .... yes disposables, absolutely NOT.

We should have an SSTO spaceplane to replace the shuttle. And nuclear rockets for ultra heavy payloads to go into orbit.

4 posted on 02/01/2003 8:07:02 PM PST by Centurion2000 (The question is not whether you're paranoid, but whether you're paranoid enough.)
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To: Destro

7 posted on 02/01/2003 8:10:01 PM PST by Momaw Nadon
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To: Destro
This is from a NASA release last summer:

"Recent inspections of Space Shuttle Atlantis and Space Shuttle Discovery found cracks, measuring one-tenth to three-tenths of an inch, in one flow liner on each of those vehicles. Some of the cracks were not identifiable using standard visual inspections and were only discovered using more intensive inspection techniques. "These cracks may pose a safety concern and we have teams at work investigating all aspects of the situation," said Space Shuttle Program Manager Ron Dittemore. "This is a very complex issue and it is early in the analysis. Right now there are more questions than answers. Our immediate interests are to inspect the hardware to identify cracks that exist, understand what has caused them and quantify the risk. I am confident the team will fully resolve this issue, but it may take some time. Until we have a better understanding, we will not move forward with the launch of STS-107." The impact of the investigation on other upcoming space shuttle launches has not been determined." - - June 24, 2002

8 posted on 02/01/2003 8:10:45 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Destro
It is time to start using disposable-reliable space vehicles

Here's what I would do, and I have said this repeatedly, even just yesterday: Launch cargo on BDBs [Big, Dumb Boosters.] Launch crew on separate man-rated vehicles, which means the crew can escape under any circumstances, and for crew re-entry, use something much smaller and easier to make robust. Forget the wings.

Get to work on this right now and assume the Space Shuttle is headed for mothballs as of today. If any more building is to happen on the ISS, use BDBs to launch the hardware.

It's time to rethink NASA's mission. Moonbase and Marsbase should be the goal. NOW.

13 posted on 02/01/2003 8:17:10 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: Destro
The concept of the Shuttle--a reusable orbiting payload vehicle sounds like a good idea but it has never worked out with with our current technological and budget limits.

That is silly. Things break, shiite happens. Airliners have catastrophic failures, nobody (except the French) panics and gives up. One hundred years from now, with technology we can't imagine, people are going to die traveling to and from space.

Sure, the shuttle is a failure in many ways, but if you think space can be made affordable by throwing away millions of dollars worth of hardware with each flight, forget it.

Right now, you really can't draw conclusions and take them seriously.

15 posted on 02/01/2003 8:19:09 PM PST by hopespringseternal
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To: Destro
For starters I would ask congress to authorize a bounty that it would reimburse any private organization that would send a manned mission to Mars and return its crew to Earth safely that would cover all expenses plus 15%.

I cannot imagine any private company that would attempt this for a mere 15% return on investment.

17 posted on 02/01/2003 8:21:09 PM PST by CharacterCounts
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To: Destro
It's possible efforts may be sped up on the development of the Orbital Space Plane. Reusability is key to reliability, the shuttle isn't that good of a design. We may see a general consensus in the coming days that the shuttle is a flawed overly-complex design. It's possible that the program could be terminated.
20 posted on 02/01/2003 8:24:31 PM PST by Brett66
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To: Destro
Space Shuttle Columbia Disaster Archive
21 posted on 02/01/2003 8:24:34 PM PST by petuniasevan (RIP Columbia crew - you were the "Right Stuff")
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To: Destro
Disposable rockets are 10 times cheaper and 100 times more structurally sound than a reusable space shuttle.

Would you like to get on-board for this great business opportunity I'm working on? We're developing a disposable car; you *throw it away* after one trip. Imagine all the savings ... no oil changes, no expensive repairs, typically you don't even need to visit a gas station (we sell it with a full tank of gas). And it only costs 40% of what a reusable car costs! Amazing! We think we'll revolutionize the automotive industry. What do you think?

The only way space travel is going to become routine or efficient is through the development of reusable vehicles. The shuttle is a first-generation reusable vehicle flying 30-year-old technology that cut some questionable corners (for budgetary reasons) when it went up the first time. Like most first-generation techologies, it has quite a few problems. The solution is to develop the second-generation technology, not retreat back to a technology that is ultimately a dead end.

The Russian Soyuz vehicle is 40+ year-old technology for the most part, by the way, not at all "a generation ahead" of anything.

23 posted on 02/01/2003 8:25:50 PM PST by Campion
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To: Destro
It just looks more and more like the shuttle is an idea whose time has come and gone. NASA seems to evolved into a classic bureaucracy just trying to keep everyone employed.
30 posted on 02/01/2003 8:35:15 PM PST by NoControllingLegalAuthority
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To: Destro
Laurel Clark was a Racine, Wisconsin native (just south of Milwaukee, for the geographically challenged) and the Milwaukee media has been interviewing everyone imaginable for their comments.

One of the radio stations talked with Congressman Jim Sensenbrenner (R-WI) about some of the questions you have raised. His thoughts (very loose paraphrasing of what I remember) were in synch with yours. He did state the shuttle was 40-year old technology and he hoped NASA would not replace Columbia and start phasing out the shuttle program.

I was left with the impression that he was not the only elected official with this point of view. Could be the public needs to start putting some pressure on Congress to nudge NASA along to the next step in the space exploration process.

58 posted on 02/01/2003 9:53:58 PM PST by republicandiva
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To: Destro
NASA should keep working on the upcoming mission as a back-up plan to get the astronauts off the space station. The next shuttle mission was on the schedule to launch on March 1, 2003.

Primary payloads -- ISS seventeenth flight (ULF1)/Multi-Purpose Logistics Module, crew rotation

Bowersox, Budarin and Pettit are up there now:

I can't imagine what today's been like for them up there.

60 posted on 02/01/2003 10:16:10 PM PST by P.O.E.
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To: Destro
A story I heard about the approach of the Russian and NASA space programs is very illuminating. The story goes like this, when a Russian space agency official was told by a proud NASA official about the expense and effort of its engineers that goes into desgining even the so called astronaut or space pen that allows it to be used in zero gravity the Russian replied "we use pencils."

It all depends on the mission and what you want to do. If you want to commercialize space, you use the shuttle and technologies. If you want to make survival missions, then you use rockets and simplicity.

It is like choosing between being a survivalist or a surgeon. The missions are different and the tools of surgery are markedly different. You are comparing Apples and Oranges.

68 posted on 02/02/2003 12:03:24 AM PST by lavaroise
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To: Destro
current technological and budget limits

The most important of those limits are not the current ones, but the one imposed by Presidents Nixon and Carter, when the shuttle was designed. Lots of factors led to a "spend money later during operations rather than during design and production" attitude. One major example, directly related to the Challenger disaster, was that the Shuttle was originally to have a fly back booster, rather than the solid rocket motors that they ended up with. The shuttle is th only manned spacecraft to ever use solid rockets, and it uses the largest diameter ones every made (for production at least). Even then, logistical considerations meant that the SRBs are not as large in diameter as the designers might have wished.

70 posted on 02/02/2003 12:15:04 AM PST by El Gato
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To: Destro
Original estimates on shuttle safety were that we'd lose one shuttle every 75 flights. So, it turns out the real figure is one shuttle and crew lost about every 50 flights. That isn't cause to cancel it.

We should look for immediate causes and do thorough inspections but maintain our launch schedule. Our astronauts know the risks. Space is dangerous. We need to continue the manned exploration of space and establish a permanent manned presence in space. We need to build a new and better fleet of manned space transports. And we need to develop (or buy from Russia) the heavy boosters needed to launch large unmanned craft to carry space station parts more economically.

Maintain the launch schedules with volunteer astronauts. And prepare a diverse new generation of more cost effective and safer space vehicles.
80 posted on 02/02/2003 5:59:01 AM PST by George W. Bush
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To: Destro
The more complex a system is, the more things there are that can go wrong. Given that in the space program, "things that can go wrong" include massive amounts of highly explosive propellants, the deadly vacuum of space, and fierce re-entry temps, it really is amazing that we have had as few catastrophic failures as we have. Nevertheless, we have not been able to drive the probabilities down to zero, and probably never will. In the case of the shuttle program, we have had two catastrophic failures now in around hundred flights (suggesting a catstrophic failure rate probability of approximately 1:50), and have now lost 40% of our five-vehicle fleet.

A smaller spacecraft that was only tasked for transporting people and not cargo would mean a lot less complexity throughout. A smaller spacecraft would mean smaller rockets, and it would mean fewer tiles. We don't fly airliners that carry maybe a dozen pasengers plus several tons of FedEx parcels -- why should we think that what doesn't make sense for routine terrestrial air transport should make sense for what is supposed to become routine space transport?

83 posted on 02/02/2003 7:14:30 AM PST by Stefan Stackhouse
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To: Destro
If the shuttle program is canceled, the space program will die. Human exploration fires the imagination of the citizenry. Robots and other automated probes will not generate support and mass politics will win out. The funds (and tolerance for risk) needed for a program to Mars or back to the moon are beyond the private sector. This is truly a role for big G government. Without the vision, excitement and potential of manned exploration and colonies, the US will only have a LEO capability for satellite launches and other near earth uses. Manned space flight and shuttle type vehicles may not be the most cost effective, but their absence would restrict space activities to narrow, short-term, projects only IMHO.

Now is the time to brace up our political leaders to support not only a return of the shuttle fleet to service ASAP, but also the development of a new generation spacecraft to replace the shuttles as a national priority. NASA has tried and failed to develop such a replacement several times, but a combination of techical difficulties and lack of funding has doomed each such effort. Now is the time to decide that we are serious about our space capabilities and put sufficient effort and funding into the program to succeed.

93 posted on 02/02/2003 10:48:40 AM PST by Truth29
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To: Destro
IMHO, they need to do something about SPACE DEBRIS. There's all kinds of junk flying around up there that would wreak havoc if it collided with an 18,000 MHP space shuttle. It might already have.
117 posted on 02/02/2003 7:17:56 PM PST by Xthe17th (FREE THE STATES. Repudiate the 17th amendment!)
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To: Destro
You'd think that in 20+ years, NASA could have come up with something less "Iffy" than Heat Tiles to cover the underbelly of the ship...Maybe a teflon shield, like the old capsules had?
135 posted on 02/03/2003 4:08:19 AM PST by Wondervixen (Ask for her by name--Accept no substitutes!)
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