From NASA engineering film: Sequential pix of debris hitting Columbia's wing

NASA via CNN Online & Yahoo News ^ | 2/3/03 | Wolfstar

[Wolfstar]

Released Monday morning, a high-speed NASA engineering film shows a piece of debris falling from the large external tank on the space shuttle Columbia's liftoff and hitting the orbiter's left wing. Bear in mind that these are extreme close-ups of a high-speed event. In the top couple of photos, you see only the top of the broken-off piece. Most of it is in the shadows. Depending on which clip you see and how slowly it is run, to the uninitiated person's eye, it can look either like the debris strikes the wing hard enough to pulverize the debris, or the debris strikes a glancing blow and bounces off in the direction of the main and booster engine exhaust.

[glock rocks]

dolly has fake boobs?

[DoughtyOne]

Once again, you are failing to understand that the air is moving past the shuttle at 1000 mph plus. The object takes on the speed of the air quickly, as in a sail. You hood blows up on your care. The hood was traveling at the exact same speed of the car. But in the wind which catches it, that hood assumes the speed of the air in less than the arc accompanying five feet of motion. Don't tell me that something falling off the top of the tank would only be going 40 to 150 mphs. I'm sorry but that is absurd.

[Howlin]

Nobody else is saying that.

And to a person, they have ALL said it was impossible to use the shuttle for various reasons.

[Jhoffa_]

..isn't that how we all ended up on this thread?

Very possibly.

PS: I don't think it was a "conspiracy" on behalf of NASA. Heck, it's not a ride to the grocery store by any means..

But yes, it might be a critical oversight.

And it might take extrodrinary measures to correct..

[Wolfstar]

"...during g."

Sorry, I don't know what you are referring to by "g", so can't respond to that part of your comment.

As for the remainder of your comment, sometimes one encounters an individual whose thought processes seem to be dense enough to act as a heat shield! Let me make this as clear as possible:

• "Nothing that could be done..." is not MY position, it is NASA's.
• The purpose of this thread is to present photos and NASA's comments about them, and let readers of the post draw their own conclusions. I am merely REPORTING what I have read and heard in the briefings.
• In their briefings, to date, NASA spokesmen said they did not know of the debris hitting the wing until the day after launch. They then needed an additional several days to fully analyze the incident and make a determination as to what effect the foam hitting the wing might have. Their determination at the time, with the evidence they had at their disposal, was that the incident did not pose a hazard to the orbiter.
• Even if they determined that it was a hazard, there were few, if any options available to them to deal with the problem. The shuttle could not dock with the ISS OR WITH ANOTHER SHUTTLE. It did not have enough provisions on board to keep the crew alive long enough to attempt a rescue mission. (Provisions are not just food and water. They include oxygen to breath, fuel to maneuver the orbiter, and perhaps other items not known to us.) There was no way to check for damage, and no way to repair any damage that might have been found.
• At a briefing yesterday, a member of the media asked whether it might have been possible to try a reentry approach that reduced stress on the orbiter to the absolute minimum. NASA's answer was that they already use the least stressful approach, because the goal is to re-fly the orbiters many times. So they do everything they can to minimize stress and heat loads on every flight.

Lastly, you the hell are you or anyone in the general public to dare proceed from a premise that assumes the NASA flight folks would deliberately sacrific the lives of crews who are their friends and colleagues? Those folks know the crews — know each other in some ways more intimately that the crew's families. But the folks who work earth-side on those flights are human beings just like the rest of us. They are subject to fatigue, misjudgements, lack of foresight, budget constraints, and other impediments to success just like any other human being on the planet. The wonder is not that they fail from time to time, but that they succeed as often as they do.

[P-Marlowe]

I cannot even believe you would insinuate that the people at NASA might let their friends die.

That is what YOU were insinuating by stating that there was nothing they could do. I am hoping that they underestimated the problem. But if they knew it was as bad as it turned out, they had an obligation to do everything they could and even whatever they couldn't to mount a rescue. There could be no excuse for not trying.

[Cold Heat]

Ya' should not have posted it! IMHO.........

Besides, this pic, if genuine, is not of the shuttle. It appears to be a close up of the fuel tank and one of the shuttle mounts.

The NASA spokesman mentioned some photos that were taken on a previous shuttle mission where damage occurred to the tank insulation. He said the photos were taken of each trip and with a still 35mm camera and not a digital. So this is likely from a previous trip.

If it is from this trip, then it is as stated, a frame from a downloaded video. No mention has been made of the existance of this film for this trip.

[meyer]

Do you think NASA knew this was going to happen and decided to keep the crew in the dark? Or do you think they underestimated the problem? If its the former, then it is unforgivable. If the latter, then it is understandable.

Personally, I think they either underestimated the situation or it simply wasn't a situation.

I don't work for NASA, but I've worked in both Federal and private sector jobs - Frankly, I don't see this happening. NASA isn't like the local welfare office - these people are a special breed. They are among those few government agencies that deeply care about what they are doing.

[glock rocks]

bump!

[Howlin]

That is what YOU were insinuating by stating that there was nothing they could do.

No, it isn't. I'm saying that they used everything at their disposal to decide if they were in danger or not. And to the best of their ability, they decided it wasn't a danger.

You're the one saying what NASA says is a lie, not me.

[TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!]

Alright you are right, they sat around and ployed this themselves had many ways to save them but said na, they should all die and then said ha ha they will crash in a billion pieces over Tx.

More intelligence then I could imagine went over the ascent frame by frame, consulted the crew themselves, scientists, contractors, astronauts, had technology that I could not imagine, and then said screw them let's watch em plummet over Tx. in a billion pieces.

[DoughtyOne]

Howlin, when you watch that video again, please look at it in relation to the rest of the craft. Not only is the object much larger than you think, but it is moving much faster than you think.

If NASA is saying that this hit with the pressure of 2.67 pounds, they're just flat out lying. The weight of this object alone has to be in excess of 2.67 pounds. Compound that by the speed and you have far more stress than the impact of 2.67 pounds.

If this is what they put out this afternoon, I'm glad I didn't hear it.

[El Gato]

An escape pod or a vehicle incorporated either onboard or launched, in order to rescue a crew from a stranded ship is conceiveable.

I've seen conceptional designs for a lightweight individual re-entry "vehicle". A sort of big foam pad, some gyros, and something akin to the old Gemmi handheld manuevering unit to provide the deorbit "burn". Even without the latter one could exit the spacecraft after it had executed it's deorbit burn. Would have been a hell of a ride though. :) Some of the concepts are shown hereThis one was by GE and called Moose.

[Shanty Shaker]

Anybody who answers there is nothing they could do should not be close to any program labeled experimental. They lack the vision neccesary to be involved with such programs.

[Amerigomag]

But they could have ...

They did.

[Howlin]

This is exactly what he said today:

To: Dog

2.67 pounds.......is the striking energy.

324 posted on 02/03/2003 5:30 PM EST by Howlin

Need his email so you can tell him he's lying, because he clearly said he's reading them.

[Registered]

ANYONE THAT BELIEVES THE IMAGE SHOWING THE SUPPOSED CRACKS IN A SHUTTLE WING SHOULD HAVE THEIR HEADS EXAMINED.

IT IS NOT FROM THE SPACE SHUTTLE.

[Karsus]

It should have said Apollo XIII. Not sure what happened.

"Lastly, you the hell are you or anyone in the general public to dare proceed from a premise that assumes the NASA flight folks would deliberately sacrific the lives of crews who are their friends and colleagues? T"


Because they did EXACTLY that when it came to the loss of Challenger (STA-099, OV-99).

[altair]

Either they are lying or they are the most incompetent agency known to man.

They're not the most incompetent, but they rank right up there. NASA needs to be defunded and space exploration left to private enterprise.

[Wolfstar]

Whatever that is in this pic making the rounds on the Web (and some foolish European news outlets), it most definitely is not a shuttle's wing. The shuttle is white on the topside and black on the underside. It is aerodynamically smooth and doesn't have whatever those peculiar black thingys are in this silly photo. Also, look at the bleed of the blue color from earth onto the leading edge of the object in the upper righthand corner. A dead give-away of bad photo editing.