Video shows shuttle may have shed debris over Arizona - check out this video taken by amateurs

The Dallas Morning News ^ | February 3, 2003 | By BYRON HARRIS / WFAA-TV

[Cold Heat]

The problem as explained was the two dimentional view. A damaged tile that was 5 inches thick would look the same as one that had only a quarter inch remaining.

[MeekOneGOP]

The video at that link seems to have been removed. There are no links or pics on that page. Odd.

I checked it again, and it is working now. Perhaps server problems at the time you tried to view it?...

[csvset]

I'm sure we've all seen the (Doppler?), radar shot of the debris field as it settled over Texas. Would it be possible, feasible or worthwhile to go back and check similar weather radar scans starting out west, looking for any signs of debris falling off?

I realize that the radar in Texas was reflecting off of thousands of parts which is why it was so readily visable.

[dtel]

I think it would be worth a try.
Satellite photos would also be useful, one would think.
I'm not so quick to dismiss the apartment fire in Dallas, that started just before the shuttle came overhead, anymore either.
You also have to think the smaller pieces over the western states may have burned up before hitting earth.

[eno_]

I have not followed the entire discussion. Is it really true there was no alternative at all to attempting re-entry with the crew on board?

Not enough fuel to reach the ISS?

No means of transferring crew without the docking adapter in the cargo bay?

It seems like a lousy choice, and it almost seems like NASA collectively closed their eyes and decided to hope. They had two weeks to diagnose a problem. They probably had technical means to do it in some way, using either ground-based imaging, satellite imaging, or the ISS.

If they found damage, they would have to improvise like hell to do something with that knowledge, with no guarantee of success.

I would prefer to know how bad my situation is. NASA may have made a different choice re the shuttle. Now they will be judged with hindsight. I wonder if that is the better outcome.

[dtel]

It is my understanding there was not enough fuel to reach the ISS.
They were in the wrong orbit, for another matter.
The fact is these guys went up via a very large container of highly flammable fuel.
They are fully aware of the risks inherent in space exploration.
As far as fixing damage in space, there is no way, at this time to carry the appropriate materials. (20,000 different tiles)
There is no way, at this time, to remove and reinstall any damaged tiles in space, if they could carry the appropriate materials.
I would think the astronauts knew what their situation was, meaning I believe ground control talked with them, prior to re-entry.
They had two choices:
Fly around space until you expire.
Bring it home.

[DoughtyOne]

You also have to think the smaller pieces over the western states may have burned up before hitting earth.

Tiles burn up? Someone made the same mistake a day or two ago and I let it slip on by. Early drop off of tiles would certainly survive and fall to earth even as early as California.

[Freedom'sWorthIt]

ABC this morning (I know, I know) had a guy on who showed the tiles - showed that they are actually stacked one on top of another and then on the "pad" that is glued to the frame. The design is so that if the tile is hit, the top half will break off without major damage to the "under" tile or frame. The dangers are that something could break off the under tile as well as the upper tile or could actually break off the "pad" and leave the bare frame open to the heat. The metal of the frame melts at 900 degrees in a 2000 degree environment - not good. (He said). There have been other shuttles in which both top and under tile came off and a "burn through" occurred but the key was WHERE that happened - not in a critical place before. Also, the video of the insulation foam indicates the tiles could have been struck near or next do the wheel well "door" - which, if it came off in flight - would be catastrophic. But he did not know if this is what happened. A key question obviously is what is that piece that separated in this early video.

One other mention was made by the ABC reporters that NASA does have film from satellites of the shuttle over but these have been "classified" and not released to the public.

[DoughtyOne]

Thanks for the ping. What's interesting is that the normal config is shuttle bay exposed toward earth, tail forward. If these photos show a different config it says four things. They had to reconfig to take the photos. NASA's plausible denial of knowing photos were taken is bogus. NASA has been lying about their initial assessments of the damage from the insullation. NASA's overall trustworthyness has just plumeted to that of Bill Clinton.

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

Perhaps server problems at the time you tried to view it?...

Nope. I figured it out. I thought I had Real Player but remembered I removed that POS from my system a few weeks back.

All that shows to me is a set of frames with the little generic image icons with the circle, square and triangle in them. No biggie. I'm certainly not going to reload Real Player to show me something I already suspected...that Columbia was trailing debris from the moment it hit atmosphere and the crew was unaware until it was way too late. May God keep them close and protect their souls.

[FReepaholic]

>>...If we find any tile or structure upsteram of Fort Worth, New Mexico (or) Arizona - if that exists - that is extremely important to us," said NASA's Ron Dittemore....<<

It'd be nice if they would provide a precise ground track so the folks out there could know where to start to look.

[dtel]

Tiles burn up?

Not if they are facing the direction they are supposed to.
What would happen as it is hurtling through space twisting and turning in every direction?
I don't pretend to know, just bringing it up.

[DoughtyOne]

The backing would certainly blow disintigrate. One aspect of the tile substance I hadn't considered is pulverization. The ceramic portion might not burn, but it might be turned to dust by atmospheric terbulence.

[NotJustAnotherPrettyFace]

Yeah....... no fooling!

[bvw]

1. Repeating excuses doesn't make them better.
2. "Fully aware of the risks" -- No. Stat case proves it too. Rather at every level "risks" are filtered and excused, beyond safety.
3. Chanting, in unison. "They were fully aware of the risks", does not excuse ONE SINGLE SOLITARY compromise in fact or inclination towards safety.
4. "They had two choices" -- they didn't even open up the box to see if they had more. The "nothing we can do" attitude. The legal theory: "If you not informed, you are not liable."

[Balata]

WOW! Thanks for the post.

[csvset]

Is it SOP for the USAF to photograph all shuttle flights? If not, why was this flight photographed? Do they photograph only flights only if there is a USAF experiment or USAF equipment to be deployed?

Certainly the photos must of sufficient quality to be of use. Would the USAF would take pictures of Columbia if not directed to?

Unless of course we have "rogue" USAF personnel snapping pics. I've seen posts stating that any pics are, "of low quality", " of little use", "it can't be done", "they can't use them to determine damage".

Why would the USAF take any pics if that's the case?

[DoughtyOne]

Good questions. Somehow I doubt that the Air Force would take photos if they didn't expect to get clear crisp detailed results. However, I'm sure some of the contributors to this and a few other threads will explain why they would, momentum being the force of nature that it is.

[SteveH]

I seem to recall there is a limited ability of some military satellites to change into a lower orbit temporarily in order to accomplish a specific short term task. Such a change in orbit could even have been done for the shuttle pics, if they were serious enough. The detail might reveal the level of concern if nothing else. However, a high level of concern in DOD without explicit NASA prompting might cause further public and private fallout...

[Grammy]

Mr Grammy has held tiles before (his dad helped develop them) and he says they feel more like styrofoam then ceramic. They are very very light, and easily scratched.