A New Breed of Astronauts (What troubles me about Christians)

TIME ^ | Sunday, February 2, 2002 | Broward Liston

[the_devils_advocate_666]

[...]

Ilan Ramon was a Jew but not religious. Rick Husband, his commander, was a born-again Christian. He sometimes attended a church near Cape Canaveral where the preacher, remembering him on Sunday, made a point of saying that Rick was going to heaven, but "I don't know about the others." Still, the secular Jew and the Bible-thumping choirboy were closer than friends, really — they spoke of one another as family. The Ramons used to invite the Husbands over for Friday-night dinners — all the crew families, in fact — and the bonds cemented.

[...]

[the_devils_advocate_666]

Sheesh, is there any wonder why I'm a skeptic...
An interesting article non-the-less.

[M. Thatcher]

is there any wonder why I'm a skeptic

Oh, yeah, it's a real shock that people who believe in a religion also believe their religion is right and all others are wrong. That's SO unusual.

[governsleastgovernsbest]

As a Jew, I'm not offended by the Christian minister's belief that only true Christians can go to Heaven.

Religion is not a well-intended social club, or a set of nice values. It is a system of beliefs about the ultimate questions of G-d, the universe, right and wrong, etc. Within traditional Christianity, my understanding is that only those who accept Christ can find salvation.

Now, I disagree with that, but why should I be offended by it? And since that is apparently the minister's understanding of what his religion teaches, what would you have him do or say?

[netmilsmom]

I can't believe that you pick this out of such a great article. Take care of your own immortal soul and don't worry about what anyone thinks. God will judge. I say to Charismatics who talk to me because I am Catholic, this is America. We have a right to any religion we choose. I will stand before God one day for my actions, not you.
And BTW, IMO all of those people went to heaven.

[Mr. Bird]

made a point of saying that Rick was going to heaven, but "I don't know about the others."

I tried to access the link, but it was taking forever. Assuming the quotes indicate a direct citation, I don't think this statement necessarily reflects any disparaging attitude toward "the others". A thoughtful Christian cleric may say something like this, acknowledging his unfamiliarity with the "others'" religion. As I understand it, most of Judaism does not believe in heaven, and Hindus believe in reincarnation. It may be more derogatory to them to assign them a place in an afterlife in which they do not believe.

But then again, I suppose it's easier to just bash the guy.

[laotzu]

"what would you have him do or say?"

An excellent question that warrants an answer.

[the_devils_advocate_666]

but "I don't know about the others."

It just appalls me that he would think to say this. Maybe it was just a poor choice of words, but he could of just ended his thoughts with "he's going to heaven". There was no need to add in the "but".

[MississippiMan]

And BTW, IMO all of those people went to heaven.

Can you explain why you believe that, how it meshes with your faith?

MM

[Mamzelle]

What an absurd comparison you draw. You'd better put in for a keeper.

[F16Fighter]

"He [the 'born-again Christian'astronaut] sometimes attended a church near Cape Canaveral where the preacher, remembering him on Sunday, made a point of saying that Rick was going to heaven, but "I don't know about the others."'

Perhaps the author is subtly suggesting that both the preacher AND Rick Husband be brought up on 'hate-speech' charges? OR rather that Husband cannot perform his duties as an astronaut because he is a Christian?

Reminds me of a Democratic "friend" of mine and his cohort maintaining that John Ashcroft is "too Christian" to be Attorney General of the U.S.

These people have declared war upon Christianity -- period.

[the_devils_advocate_666]

My apologies, as I said before it is a good article and I did have some reservations about just posting the excerpt.
But that's also why I picked a limited selection of Topics.

[GodBlessRonaldReagan]

Bible-thumping choirboy

Nice bit of media bias. Ever hear a mullah referred to as a Koran-thumper?

[sinkspur]

And since that is apparently the minister's understanding of what his religion teaches, what would you have him do or say?

Take care of his own house and shut his mouth about the salvation of others.

The fact is, he doesn't know who God is going to save.

[plain talk]

I always find it interesting how aetheists spend so much time talking about something they don't believe in. Christianity is not of this world which is why those of this world can't understand it. Only by the grace of the holy spirit is anyone saved. A good book for a skeptic (and I used to be one) is Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis. It gets into many issues that normal humans struggle with, i.e. why is there pain, why aren't all saved, etc. The first step is to swallow human pride and attempt to look at things from a Godly perspective, not a man's perspective and accept that there could be other powers and agendas at work as to why things are what they are. For example, the death of these seven people may result in many, many people accepting Christ and having eternal life.

[governsleastgovernsbest]

You know, after I posted my initial message, I had second thoughts along the lines of what you have written.

Even if as a matter of theology the minister doubted the others were going to heaven, was it necessary, was it kind, was it Christian, for him to have said so at such a time of mourning.

Then again, in fairness, perhaps he felt that this tragedy was also something of a learning lesson. That people need to reflect upon their own mortality and their own immortal destiny.

But my bottom line is in line with yours: it was unnecessarily cruel for him to have made the statement.

[frnewsjunkie]

I believe it isn't a person who calls himself a "Christian", but the person who calls Jesus Christ the "Son of God", and accepts the sacrifice Jesus made for us all.

Any person, no matter what his religion, can believe in Jesus as the Son of God, and that sacrifice. The reason most single out the Jew, is because the Jewish nation believes their Savior is yet to come... that Jesus was not the Messiah.

However, many Jews HAVE come to accept Jesus as their Messiah.

The word "Christian" has become so overused, we don't recoginze it as what it used to represent.

[M. Thatcher]

An Islamofacist is not to far removed from a Christian soldier slaughtering the natives.....

Right. A minister's comment on the unknowable spiritual fate of people not in his religion is JUST like Islamofacists.

Oh, and there really are Islamofacists. Today. Now. I dare you to find a single "Christian soldier slaughtering the natives" anywhere on the planet.

[LiteKeeper]

read later

[Alouette]

As I understand it, most of Judaism does not believe in heaven

The liberal branches of so-called "Judaism" don't believe in much of anything, or don't really know what they're supposed to believe. But the Bible-based, millennia-old rabbinic Jewish teaching does include the belief in salvation and life after death, for Jews and non-Jews.