Turkey Shoot at NATO: If the alliance can't protect a front-line member, what is it good for?

Wall St Journal ^ | 2-12-03

[SJackson]

At NATO headquarters last night, France continued to scupper any effort to help its fellow NATO member, Turkey, defend itself against Iraq. And so we bid adieu to NATO's core mission -- ensuring that all members come to the defense of any member under attack.

[sanchmo]

Question: what is it good for?

Answer: As a tool for France to try to flex some of the muscle it it once had.

[P8riot]

Question: what is it good for?

Answer: As a tool for France to try to flex some of the muscle it it once had.

Follow-up Question:And just what muscle was that?

The Complete Military History of France

- Gallic Wars - Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000
years of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian.

- Hundred Years War - Mostly lost, saved at last by female schizophrenic who
inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare; "France's armies are
victorious only when not led by a Frenchman."

-Italian Wars - Lost. France becomes the first and only country to ever lose
two wars when fighting Italians.

- Wars of Religion - France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots

- Thirty Years War - France is technically not a participant, but manages to
get invaded anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other
participants started ignoring her.

- War of Devolution - Tied. Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as
chapeaux.

-The Dutch War - Tied

-War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War Lost,
but claimed as a tie. Three ties in a row induces deluded Frogophiles the
world over to label the period as the height of French military power.

-War of the Spanish Succession - Lost. The War also gave the French their
first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved ever since.

- American Revolution - In a move that will become quite familiar to future
Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far
more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the
Second Rule of French Warfare; "France only wins when America does most of
the fighting."

- French Revolution - Won, primarily due the fact that the opponent was also
French.

- The Napoleonic Wars - Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!)
due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British
footwear designer.

- The Franco-Prussian War - Lost. Germany first plays the role of drunk Frat
boy to France's ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night.

- World War I - Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United
States. Thousands of French women find out what it's like to not only sleep
with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, widespread
use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French
bloodline.

-World War II - Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and
Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song.

- War in Indochina - Lost. French forces plead sickness, take to bed with
the Dien Bien Flu

- Algerian Rebellion - Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a western army
by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the First Rule
of Muslim Warfare; "We can always beat the French." This rule is identical
to the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans, English, Dutch,
Spanish, Vietnamese and Esquimaux.

- War on Terrorism - France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders
to Germans and Muslims just to be safe. Attempts to surrender to Vietnamese
ambassador fail after he takes refuge in a McDonald's.

The question for any country silly enough to count on the French should not
be "Can we count on the French?", but rather "How long until France
collapses?"

***********************************************

"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without an
accordion. All you do is leave behind a lot of noisy baggage."

[uncbob]

Everybody is missing the real issue

Back when Clinton bombed Serbia into ruble to save NATO I said where will NATO be if the ballon goes up in ASIA and we need help

Little did I know that that question would be answered as it is now

THE REAL ISSUE is that the USA is a NATO member and WE WERE ATTACKED now where the hell are our NATO allies that we fought the war in the BALKANS to save ??????????

[norton]

Nope...

We didn't fight a war in the Balkans to SAVE France or Germany.

Only to protect their interests in Croatia and Albania.

Only to allow for the free operation of their islamist allies and to enable the crime wave that followed.

Only to make certain that most Christians in the area would find themselves living either something like Jews in the middle east - under siege.

Only to restore the german/croat front so fondly remembered from hitler's time.

Only to give the 'new europe' a show trial upon which to build its case for quasi-legal claims against anyone and everyone brussels deems to be against it.

Oh, and only because bill clinton found it convenient and probably a bit exciting as he played his indoor games far, far, from the desaster it created.

[norton]

Regarding "...WE WERE ATTACKED now where the hell are our NATO allies(?)"

NO ONE in NATO ever for one minute expected that the european members would be called upon to defend against an attack against the USA.

They (except the UK)don't even dream of stepping in to help us - might jeapordize their interests 'ya know.

Just wait until the next crisis in Asia - assuming NATO still exists when it comes.

[P8riot]

Personally I believe that France, Germany, and Russia aren't getting into the fray because they know what weapons Iraq has, since they are responsible for them being there. They're just gonna sit back and watch Hussein use them on us.

[illumini]

We should get out of NATO and send the U.N. spy-den packing off to France.

[Billthedrill]

We were speculating the other night here on FR whether the move by Germany and France heralded a switch in emphasis from NATO security to that of a still-nascent EU force. That was before the alarming action by those countries to hang Turkey out to dry. For me the latter action is conclusive. These countries are trying to kill NATO without upsetting their electorates by formal withdrawal. They are hoping the United States will react by withdrawing all NATO deployments, not just those in Germany (we pulled out of France in the 60s).

Well, NATO is dead if they say it is. This a rather transparent attempt to accomplish that and make the U.S. out to be the bad guy. I don't think it's fooling anyone but some Red/Green voters who live in a fantasy world anyhow. It is certainly not fooling the Turks.

[Forgiven_Sinner]

Heh, heh--here's a thought: in response to the dissing of Turkey, the US should issue ITS request to NATO to help defend it against the terrorist threat now ensconced in Iraq. Let's see if they'll fail to respond to that. If they do, declare NATO ended, and form a new alliance.

[norton]

Not a bad idea at all and GWB just might take you up on it.

If it worked I'd recommend another request for help in defending our southern border...maybe france would be willing to face up to mexico & it'd let our own president off the hook.

[norton]

The actual fight will be anti climax.
What germany and france are pooping their leiderhosen over is the political fall out when it's noted that most of the ugly crap that MAY be used came via their assistance &/or that their support for saddam came by way of secret deals for oil or future assistance.
How long have these three been sleeping together?
(I can't spell 'menage a-trois')

[Walkin Man]

The only reason for NATO now that it refuses to defend a member country from attack is...that HUGE welfare check that Uncle sam sends to Germany and France everyday in the form of US military bases and thousands of troops spending their money etc.

[Radix]

I thought that NATO was a dead issue when they decided to take in some of the eastern European Countries of the former Warsaw Pact.

I see it differently now.

It was that 16 to 3 vote thing.

Perhaps I just look too much at things!