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THE DAILY TELEGRAPH: What if the march succeeds?
The Daily Telegraph ^ | February 17, 2003 | The Daily Telegraph

Posted on 02/16/2003 4:12:46 PM PST by MadIvan

It is no small achievement to persuade the British people to march peacefully in their hundreds of thousands, and the organisers of Saturday's anti-war rally deserve congratulations. Some of the marchers, of course, were serial demonstrators - CND veterans, hard-Left agitators, Muslim activists - and many seemed to be more concerned about Palestine than Iraq.

Yet the usual suspects could not have accounted for numbers on this scale. It seems statistically likely that, as Armando Iannucci predicted in these pages last week, several Daily Telegraph readers, too, took to the streets. The marchers, by any measure, have earned the right to be taken seriously.

Let us, then, do precisely this. Let us imagine that the protesters get their way. Suppose that Tony Blair decides it would be morally wrong - or electorally unwise - to commit British troops to a war that lacks home support; that other world leaders, observing the rallies in their own capitals, make the same calculation; and that George Bush, seeing the international coalition fall away, and worried about the enthusiasm of American voters, backs down. What would happen then? Who would be the winners and who the losers?

The biggest winner would obviously be Saddam Hussein. His position, both in Iraq and across the Arab world, would become virtually unassailable. Having seen off both the United Nations and the United States, he would understandably feel that no force could stand in his way.

For which reason, the biggest losers would be Iraqi dissidents, a category that now effectively includes the entire Kurdish and Shi'ite populations - in other words, a majority of Saddam's subjects. On them would fall the vindictive wrath of a tyrant who regards them as agents of a foreign power, and who would no longer have cause to fear that power.

The UN weapons inspectors would also be immediate losers. After repeatedly being denied access to sensitive areas, they eventually left Iraq in despair four years ago. The only thing that persuaded Saddam to readmit them was the obvious readiness of the Americans and British to invade him again.

Take away that pressure and even the grudging and partial acceptance that Baghdad has offered UN officials would vanish. Secure in the knowledge that he would not be attacked, Saddam would soon exclude the inspectors again and return to building up his illegal arsenals.

Saddam's victory would not be confined to Iraq. Across the Middle East, strongmen would be heartened, reformers weakened. Since the Gulf War, Saddam has appeared isolated, a relic from a more brutal era. Were he successfully to face down the West, however, things would look very different. Any sense that there was an inexorable movement towards freedom and democracy in the Islamic world would evaporate. What Tony Blair might call "the forces of conservatism" in the Middle East would have won.

Indeed, the balance of power would be tilted on every continent. Dictators from Harare to Ashkhabad would feel that little bit freer to oppress their peoples. This may appear to be of little direct concern to the West (although it ought to concern the marchers, who claim to be passionately interested in the welfare of the Third World).

But some of these states have the capacity to threaten us, either directly or indirectly. What possible lesson could Kim Jong-il draw from an American climbdown, except that he will be able to build up his nuclear programme unmolested?

If North Korea would be a winner, Israel would be a loser. A state that has already fired missiles at Israeli cities, and which is the chief sponsor of terrorism against Israeli civilians, would have won itself time to manufacture deadlier poisons. One of the arguments against striking at Saddam is that, even if he has chemical and biological weapons, he poses no immediate threat to the United Kingdom.

This argument is almost certainly wrong; but even if it were true, there can be no doubt that he does pose an immediate threat to Israel. Those on Saturday's march who think of themselves as internationalists might usefully ask whether it is right to stand by and risk the second holocaust that would result from Iraq acquiring the ability to rain death at a distance.

In reality, of course, some of the marchers might secretly - or not so secretly - support the destruction of the Jewish state. But, even from their point of view, it is hard to see what is gained from keeping Saddam in power. "Freedom for Palestine," proclaimed their banners. But there is not the remotest prospect of Israelis agreeing to create a Palestinian state while Saddam is on their horizon, paying suicide bombers and brewing new poison gases.

If Israel and Palestine would number among the losers, so would the United States. Again, many of the marchers might heartily applaud such an outcome. But it is worth standing back and asking who, in the absence of America and her allies, would uphold the law among nations.

Again and again, when tyrants threaten world peace, it has been the free English-speaking peoples - the "Anglosphere", in the current phrase - who have acted to check them. Sometimes this has involved a major conflagration - the First and Second World Wars, the Korean War - sometimes it has been more localised, as in the Gulf War, or the recent Afghan campaign. The alternative to this hegemony of law-based, free nations is not rule by the UN, or by some benign international co-operative.

If nothing else, the current crisis has demonstrated that, without Anglo-Saxon readiness to deploy proportionate force, the UN would devolve into League of Nations-style feebleness. Monsters of the Saddam mould might curb their misbehaviour because they fear America; they do not fear Belgium.

One other winner must be reckoned: an Anglo-Saxon climbdown would be a delicious victory for France and Germany. The way of doing business in the world would change. To Old Europe, the American approach to international relations is crude and simplistic. But what EU diplomats think of as subtlety might equally be called compromised morality.

What "constructive engagement" and "targeted sanctions" actually mean is that Europeans are reluctant to crack down on regimes that attack their neighbours. A world in which America withdrew into herself and the old Continent took over her role would be a dirtier and more dangerous one.

Finally, the victory of Old Europe would be a catastrophe for Mr Blair. Instead of bestriding the Atlantic, he would have left Britain simultaneously distrusted in Washington and Brussels. (This would be especially true if, somehow, America were to go to war without Britain.) Domestically, too, Mr Blair would be terribly weakened, and the Labour Left conversely rampant.

Saddam stronger, Blair weaker; dictators jubilant, democrats despondent; more weapons, fewer inspections - is this really what hundreds of thousands were marching for? One of the ethical arguments used against the war, especially by churchmen, is that ends do not justify means, and that removing a tyrant does not warrant killing innocent people.

Yet this argument has a flip-side, namely that it is not enough to be well-intentioned if you have not worked out the results of your actions. Opponents of the war have a duty to think through the consequences of a Western retreat in the face of terror. There is little sign that they have done so.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; US: District of Columbia; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: blair; bush; iraq; peaceniks; saddam; uk; usa
To be truthful the protestors have no brains - theirs is just an adolescent whinge about the world being what it is. It should be just as quickly ignored.

Regards, Ivan


1 posted on 02/16/2003 4:12:47 PM PST by MadIvan
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To: keats5; Don'tMessWithTexas; Dutchy; Focault's Pendulum; Clive; NYC GOP Chick; Blue Scourge; ...
Bump!
2 posted on 02/16/2003 4:13:01 PM PST by MadIvan
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To: MadIvan
What if the march succeeds?.....well, then those "female" marchers better go looking for some burqua's....
3 posted on 02/16/2003 4:20:49 PM PST by goodnesswins (Thank the Military for your freedom and security....and thank a Rich person for jobs.)
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To: MadIvan
Bump.
4 posted on 02/16/2003 4:34:52 PM PST by Rocko
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To: MadIvan; Freee-dame
A bit of a primer for the dreamer magic-children who think that the Uniited States is their problem.

If Maggie Thatcher had not 'lost' her position as head of the British Govt in 1990, I bet she could have persuaded George Bush 41, Colin Powell etc to ignore the UN mandate and take out Saddam.

France is working desperately to weaken Tony Blair for the same reason. I pray that enough Brits do not 'go wobbly' now, as Lady Thatcher said 12 years ago.

This is a very important editorial.
5 posted on 02/16/2003 4:36:44 PM PST by maica
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To: MadIvan
Ping for infinite justice...
6 posted on 02/16/2003 4:40:05 PM PST by July 4th
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To: MadIvan
It should be just as quickly ignored.

It is.

7 posted on 02/16/2003 4:40:31 PM PST by Dont Mention the War
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To: MadIvan
Britain needs to bring in some Kurds from Halabja, they also should show pictures of the Marshlands before and after SH. It's time for Britian to get serious about reporting the truth, before it's too late.

Ivan, we've seen the signs outside the mosques about turning Britain into an Islamic state. Maybe someone should think about what that would really mean.

8 posted on 02/16/2003 4:48:59 PM PST by McGavin999
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To: MadIvan
Well said, here, here!!

The millions of protestors this past weekend give AID and COMFORT to the enemy...they don't now how much their protests have emboldened Irak and N. Korear...the protests make it appear WE THE PEOPLE are divided and they underestimate our RESOLVE to, in the end, make the ENTIRE world a safer place.

Our young men and military are preparing to make the ultimate sacrifice in the name of FREEDOM and LIBERTY...something that actually very few countries in our world history have been able to perpetuate.

Our experiment in liberty has existed for 227 years, yet the USA is the most powerful and admired country in the history of the World. We are aided in the effort to spread freedom and liberty by our historical cousins, the UK...and sadly, NOT by two of the countries WE salvaged from the tentacles of the left wing...France and Germany.

Those protestors may think they are doing a "good thing", brave and true they believe in the name of "the people"...but they forget at who's expense they march. They do ALL FREEDOM and LIBERTY lovers a terrible disservice, they embolden our enemies. Anyone who supplies aid and comfort to the enemy, then, well...we can discuss that later.

GRRRRRollin'
9 posted on 02/16/2003 4:52:45 PM PST by GRRRRR (God Bless America)
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To: MadIvan
Good analysis -- based upon what is public knowledge. Of course, that is just the tip of the iceburg. We have been given broad hints that the US and UK intelligence services have considerably more information about Iraq and its WMD programs. My guess is that this information is not being released for one of two reasons: a) the need to protect valuable intelligence sources; or b) the need to prevent all the major cities of the world from emptying in a panic. And of course, the protestors have given absolutely no thought whatsoever to the implications of their lack of knowledge, just as they have given no thought whatsoever to the consequences of their actions based upon what we DO know.
10 posted on 02/16/2003 5:18:04 PM PST by Stefan Stackhouse
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To: Stefan Stackhouse
bump
11 posted on 02/16/2003 5:19:59 PM PST by RadioAstronomer
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To: MadIvan
NEVER FORGET


.."IS it SAFE?" = HILLARY on Armed Services Committee..

http://www.TheAlamoFILM.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=629


NEVER FORGET
12 posted on 02/16/2003 5:24:12 PM PST by ALOHA RONNIE ( ..Vet-Battle of IA DRANG-1965 http://www.LzXRay.com .)
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To: MadIvan
save. thank you for posting this.
13 posted on 02/16/2003 5:34:37 PM PST by Barset
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To: MadIvan
....it is not enough to be well-intentioned if you have not worked out the results of your actions.

Amen to that! A wonderful statement.

14 posted on 02/16/2003 6:50:44 PM PST by jigsaw
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To: MadIvan
What if the march succeeds?

Then I pray to God that each terrorist attack that occurs with weapons from Iraq strike the peacnics and their children only.

My thoughts cant be evil or mean spirited as Iraq is a peacful nation... right?

15 posted on 02/16/2003 7:04:56 PM PST by Kay Soze
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To: MadIvan
 
"Indeed, the balance of power would be tilted on every continent."
 
This is reason enough to support our troops.
 
IMO, the liberals, leftists, and wacko peaceniks would sacrifice their own mothers to get themselves in the driver's seat.  Therefore they'll protest every move this administration makes without regard for anyone else.  Why would they care about the Iraqi people, their country, or their neighbors when they have a chance (however misguided) at making this administration squirm?
 
I would bet these people wouldn't even stop to help someone who's lying on the ground bleeding from a sniper wound!-  D.C. Police: Bystanders Didn't Aid Victim   A sad day for the world when this happens.

16 posted on 02/16/2003 7:25:24 PM PST by InShanghai (Saddam will eat pork!)
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To: MadIvan

We They need him.

17 posted on 02/16/2003 7:35:23 PM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty" not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: FreedomCalls
A reminder of just how right Britain's greatest statesman could be:

"I stand at the head of a Government representing all Parties in the State-all creeds, all classes, every recognizable section of opinion. We are ranged beneath the Crown of our ancient monarchy. We are supported by a free Parliament and a free Press; but there is one bond which unites us all and sustains us in the public regard-namely (as is increasingly becoming known), that we are prepared to proceed to all extremities, to endure them and to enforce them; that is our bond of union in His Majesty's Government tonight. Thus only, in times like these, can nations preserve their freedom; and thus only can they uphold the cause entrusted to their care.

But all depends now upon the whole life-strength of the British race in every part of the world and of all our associated peoples and of all our well-wishers in every land, doing their utmost night and day, giving all, daring all, enduring all-to the utmost-to the end. This is no war of chieftains or of princes, of dynasties or national ambition; it is a war of peoples and of causes. There are vast numbers, not only in this Island but in every land, who will render faithful service in this war, but whose names will never be known, whose deeds will never be recorded. This is a War of the Unknown Warriors; but let all strive without failing in faith or in duty, and the dark curse ... will be lifted from our age."

14 July 1940

18 posted on 02/17/2003 12:00:27 AM PST by John Locke (When the enemy is weak, attack. When the enemy is strong, teach him French)
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To: Stefan Stackhouse
We need to know where the stuff is when we go in. If we spill the beans it will be moved before we capture it. We have to capture the stuff early on or risk massive casualties. Our troops come first.
19 posted on 02/17/2003 12:41:23 AM PST by DB (©)
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