Assault rifles offer a bit too much for home defense

Indy Star ^

[conservativefromGa]

John Strauss

Assault rifles offer a bit too much for home defense

February 14, 2003

As store shelves throughout the city are emptied of duct tape and plastic sheeting by people concerned about terrorist attacks, other folks think the best defense is a good offense.

Don Davis said gun sales at his Westside store have doubled since the latest terrorism alert. He said the $599 AK-47 is a top seller.

Davis became locally famous a few years ago with endlessly repeated TV commercials in which he cocked a finger at the camera and cackled, "Folks, I don't want to make money -- I just love to sell guns."

It turns out that terrorism sells.

"For me, when times are bad, business is good," Davis said Thursday.

He was at a trade show in Florida this week, shopping for gas masks for customers suddenly nervous about chemical or biological attacks.

At his Don's Guns, manager Ben Chance let me test-fire the AK-47 and a $999 Bushmaster, similar to the military M-16, in the store's indoor range.

The Bushmaster delivers a high-velocity round very accurately with little kick. The AK-47 will give you a jolt, but with that kick you get a larger round capable, they say, of going through a car's engine block.

Just what you need to stop terrorists invading your subdivision.

Of course, some people might end up with guns simply for home protection. And if that's the case, Chance says, an old-fashioned shotgun might do the trick.

"A 12-gauge is a nice gun to have in the house. You don't have to aim the gun. You just point it in the general vicinity, and you're actually going to hit what you're pointing toward, because (the shot) scatters."

Business also was up at 500 Guns on the Westside and at Pop Guns Trading Post on the Eastside. But managers at those stores said that had more to do with the arrival of income tax refund checks than Osama bin Laden or Saddam Hussein.

"There have been a few people come in and express concern," said Mike Hilton, the manager at Pop Guns. "But overall, people tend to be pretty complacent about it, to be honest."

Hilton said he recommends that someone who wants a gun take a training course. Then, once he has an idea of their skill level, he'll suggest a firearm -- often a small revolver.

He's not big on the AK-47 in this case. If used for self-defense, it's likely to "overpenetrate" -- go right through the attacker, through the wall of your home, through the wall of the next house and into somebody there.

Guy Montgomery, manager of 500 Guns, also recommends a revolver -- not a battlefield rifle -- for home defense.

Still, there's a magnetism about the assault weapons. Firing one of these guns is the shooting equivalent of twisting the throttle on a squat Harley -- lots of noise and simple, raw power.

They're fun, but they may not be real practical.

So if you're convinced al-Qaida is down the street and you want to establish a defensive perimeter in the front hallway, do the neighbors a favor.

Just borrow dad's old shotgun.

[Mulder]

bang

[Mulder]

They're fun, but they may not be real practical.

LOL! I can't think of anything more practical in a SHTF situation than a semi-auto rifle.

[Mike Darancette]

Nothin' says "I Love You" more than your mate hearing you jack a 12Ga Magnum 00 buckshot round into your sawed off Mossburg and head off down the stairs after that suspicious noise.

[xrp]

Assault rifles protect us not from those who wish to kill us, but from those who may wish to curtail our freedoms.

[Blood of Tyrants]

Truthfully, for home defense, a 12 ga pump filled with most anything can't be beat. Even #7 1/2 bird shot at 20 feet will inflict a wicked wound that will take the fight right out of an intruder.

[wolf24]

Wiser words have never been spoken (or typed).

[Bogey78O]

I have me one of them assault 22's with a 30 round clip. I dare them terrorist to come around here with their attack squirrels.

[Orangedog]

I think the universal sound that makes any burgler fill his pants is the sound of a 12 gauge being racked. He knows that any white wall in that house could quickly become an Impressionist painting with the squeeze of the trigger.

[umgud]

Magnum Research offers a 5 shot revolver that will chamber .45 Colts or .410 shotgun shells. These are full sized shotgun shells, not snakeshot typical handgun loads. They aren't legal in CA, but I'd really like to try one to see pattern and damage potential. Might make a good hallway cleaner.

[Long Cut]

"The AK-47 will give you a jolt, but with that kick you get a larger round capable, they say, of going through a car's engine block"

Did this imbecile say "ENGINE BLOCK"?!?!?

For the less-well informed in these matters, the AK's 7.62mm round approximates that oh-so-POWERFUL round, the .38 SPECIAL, in ballistic potential. It just does it at a longer range.

And once again, a reporter totally destroys his own credibility on a given topic, by being dumber than a bag of scared hammers.

[cinFLA]

"A 12-gauge is a nice gun to have in the house. You don't have to aim the gun. You just point it in the general vicinity, and you're actually going to hit what you're pointing toward, because (the shot) scatters."

Only very slightly at indoor distances.

[PUGACHEV]

I'm curious why people always tout pump shotguns. I have a Remmington semi-auto 12 ga. which works just fine. I'll admit that the sound of a shell being racked into the chamber is pretty intimidating, but there must be more to it than that.

[Long Cut]

Oh, yeah...the photo above is of an AIR-SOFT pellet gun...a FAKE, TOY rifle.

Let the disinformation continue!!!!

[way-right-of-center]

IMO, #6 or 71/2 Heavy Game load is the ideal home defense load. It will almost certianly stop anyone in your home, and wont penetrate the walls to the extent buckshot will, lessening the risk of hitting innocents. My home defense weapon is a Ithaca model 37. First round in the Magazine- #6 Turkey load. Followed by #1 buck. I keep it secured of course, and with an empty chamber in case you were worried.

[Orangedog]

I dare them terrorist to come around here with their attack squirrels.

Know your enemy...then blast 'em!

[cinFLA]

For the less-well informed in these matters, the AK's 7.62mm round approximates that oh-so-POWERFUL round, the .38 SPECIAL, in ballistic potential. It just does it at a longer range.

For the less-well informed, you post is entirely misleading. I could make the same statement about the 50 caliber sniper rifle and the 38.

[Pat Bateman]

Okay, what about HomeLAND Defence???

[wolf24]

"Might make a good hallway cleaner."

And, pants soiler.

[Jael]

Big gun bump.

[daviddennis]

Just a guess (I don't know much about guns), but you might be able to scare the burglar away with that noise, which beats armed confrontation any day.

D

[cinFLA]

First round in the Magazine- #6 Turkey load.

Down here in FL we use #4's on Turkeys - at least the flying kind.

[USMC_tangocharlie]

Truer words were never spoken!!...

I have those rounds, and I have a combat configuration Mossberg that I am absolutely in love with!!

[Pylot]

Let me first say the notion of shooting a hole in an engine block with a little AK bullet is pretty funny. ROTFLMAO

Top everyone else let me next say, they are not assault rifles.

They are Homeland Defense Rifles!!

[harpseal]

"A 12-gauge is a nice gun to have in the house. You don't have to aim the gun. You just point it in the general vicinity, and you're actually going to hit what you're pointing toward, because (the shot) scatters."

Hopefully all Freepers are aware this is a myth. A shotgun shell sends forth a pattern of shot that will expand the area it will hit so that at 25 yards one is covering an area measured still in inches of diameter. The shot expands at a relatively constant rate once it leaves the barrel. Most house will rarely have free shot of over 35 feet. More common will be shots at less than 15 feet as someone kicks in a door.

This is not to say that a shotgun is not an execellent home defense pice just that like everything it has its limitations.

[Orangedog]

Remmington makes a fine shotgun (have an 1100 myself) but I find their ammo to be a little on the dirty side. Remmington ammo jams up almost every semi auto I've had.

[Uncle Miltie]

"Still, there's a magnetism about the assault weapons."

The M-16 fires a .223 round, which is illegal for deer in Minnesota because it is UNDERPOWERED, and likely to leave the wounded deer wandering for days.

[harpseal]

A good round to compare to the 7.63X39 round is the tried and true .30-30

[Long Cut]

i keep my Charles Daley 12-gauge loaded with #6 as well. I also keep a slug around handy, just in case.

The C-D Field Tactical I have is a joy...weighs 6.5 pounds, 18-inch barrel, works any kind of shell, Magnums or 2 3/4". AND, it only ran me two hundred bucks, new-in-box. As a home-defense weapon, it is quite heartwarming to have leaning up in the corner.

That said, I AM keeping my eyes open for a good rifle. There are FN-FALs and CETME's around for under $500.00 lately, and I LOVE getting a lot of bang-for-the-buck.

[Blood of Tyrants]

Reliability. Until recently, the military refused to buy semi-auto shotguns because they would tend to fail under harsh battlefield conditions.

[way-right-of-center]

Well, the 6's pattern better in my Benelli, which is my (flying) turkey gun. More pellets in neckbone area at comperable distances. Read: Thats what I had on hand. LOL

[Squantos]

Stopped reading at the engine block comment, the picture of an toy airsoft CAR-15 and the sales counter commando telling the presstitute to use a compass per se to hit his target with said shotgun. It's dumbasses like this (the writer & the dealer) that "sell" the disinformational BS that gives the grabbers "ammunition".......

Stay Safe LC !

[Lloyd227]

"Assault rifles protect us not from those who wish to kill us, but from those who may wish to curtail our freedoms. "

Amen!

[Riley]

The AK-47 will give you a jolt, but with that kick you get a larger round capable, they say, of going through a car's engine block.

May I respectfully suggest to the esteemed journalistic dufus that he borrow an AK from someone, go WAAAYY out in the boonies and attempt to penetrate an engine block with rifle fire. He'll penetrate the paint on the block, and that's about it. He can expect an unpredictable ricochet from each shot, as well- which is why he needs to really be in the middle of nowhere and damn well check to make sure that he is.

Nah, I don't even trust his judgement that far.

[Long Cut]

"For the less-well informed, you post is entirely misleading."

That was not my intent. The 7.62x39mm AK round is simply NOT the "all-powerful death-dealer" the media would sell it as.

The comparison with the .38 and the 30-30 is quite accurate. For ANYONE to claim that it can "penetrate an engine block", now THAT's misleading.

[harpseal]

My preference for a home defense shotgun is my nice old reliable 12gauge Mossberg 590 with 20inc full cylinder choke barrel speed feed stock with an extra six rounds extended tube take nine standard loads with one up the spout. My view is if that doesn;t sttop whatever is coming in the house then I go with the M1A1 with thirty rounds then to the .45acp's and 9mm's by the time I get through over 90 rounds with those If I still haven't got a stop I was in deep kimchee from the start and whatever it is will get a couple of rounds of .45-70 before it gets me.

I am guessing I am pretty well off unless a T-Rex comes through the front door.

[spunkets]

Another propaganda piece to alarm and instill fear in the minds of the ignorant.

[fuente]

an 18&1/2 in barrel has a 6 in spread at 15 feet. kicks like a freakin' mule though, quite a strain on a wrist with a pistol grip too.

[Draakan]

"They are Homeland Defense Rifles!!"

You are correct my friend! They have always been Home and Land Defense Rifles!

[Long Cut]

I know, the sad thing is, this passes for journalism nowadays, not to mention the loads of "soccer-mommies" who'll believe, and have conniption fits over this foolishness.

[Squantos]

I had the same phobia regarding semi-auto shotguns. Then I picked up an M1 Benelli and attended a few schools with it. After a few thousand rounds and a numb right sholder I have the same confidence as I did with my Model 12 Winchester riot and my 870 Marine Magnum.

One does have to shoot em quite a bit more than the pump guns to develop memory muscle-matic skills.

Stay Safe !

[Blood of Tyrants]

If you are looking at the sub $500 FAL's, be advised that they are assembled with CIA receivers, gas pistons, and hammer/trigger/sear groups whose quality is questionable/hit or miss at best and crap at worst. You may get one that performs perfectly nes, but the odds are against you.

My suggestion is to get yourself over to the FALFiles and learn about L1A1's and Imbels and FAC receivers and FSE HTS groups and Tapco.

[CFC__VRWC]

You picked up on that too. I got a real hoot out of the guy's comment to the effect that you don't have to aim a shotgun, just sort of point it in the general direction. First, at typical indoor ranges (less than 20 ft) you're only going a very small spread. Second, the load of shot that misses the target is going to hit something.

If I were the owner of Don's Guns and I could verify that my store manager actually said this nonsense (as opposed to having these words put in his mouth by a biased reporter), he would no longer be my store manager.

[cinFLA]

The comparison with the .38 and the 30-30 is quite accurate. For ANYONE to claim that it can "penetrate an engine block", now THAT's misleading.

I agree that "assault rifles" are given too much "status" as to their power. However, there is a big difference between the 7.62 and the .38.

[Bogey78O]

Did the red tip give it away?

[way-right-of-center]

I cant speak for the M1 or the m3, but i have used the Benelli SBE to Duck/Turkey hunt for about 10 years now in some of the coldest/wettest most deplorable sporting conditions out there and it has yet to malfunction ( pauses as he knocks on wood). Benelli makes a fine weapon. With regular cleaning, it is as dependable as they come. Few moving parts to malfunction.

[cinFLA]

This is not to say that a shotgun is not an execellent home defense pice just that like everything it has its limitations.

Reading this thread reminds me of the old tales of the blunderbuss. Actually, the belled muzzle was used to aid in rapid loading of the pellets.

[cinFLA]

Well, the 6's pattern better in my Benelli, which is my (flying) turkey gun. More pellets in neckbone area at comperable distances. Read: Thats what I had on hand. LOL

Each shotgun has it's favorite "load". But then again, we have some BIG turkeys down here.

[noutopia]

Sawed off with a pistol grip? Thats mine!;}

[way-right-of-center]

Ain't it the truth.

I know this is off topic, but did I just hear the Fox news anchor call Steven Segal an action move "superstar"?