Why Does the Left Hate Israel?

www.chronwatch.com ^ | 2/21/03 | Cinnamon Stillwell

[dennisw]

You are uninformed and foolish. There are only 14 million Jews in the world. One billion Muslims. I am rude to those who want to see Israel destroyed. People like you.

As far as US aid to Israel, you only care what Israel gets. Not what South Korea and Egypt get. How many billions does it cost to keep 40,000 US troops in South Korea? Darn right you are anti Semitic.

Here is how much we spend to defend Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Gulf nations:

http://www.brook.edu/dybdocroot/views/op-ed/korb/19960918.htm

After the gulf war, the Navy created the Fifth Fleet, stationed permanently in the gulf. It consists of 21 ships manned by 15,000 sailors and marines, along with 12 more ships with equipment for ground forces and about 250 planes to protect the fleet and enforce the no-flight zones over Iraq. In addition, there are 10,000 people on the ground in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, and the United Arab Emirates, along with enough equipment for another Army brigade.

On various occasions since the gulf war, including this month, the United States has augmented this standing force by sending a second aircraft carrier, a squadron of stealth fighters and additional air defense groups and bombers.

According to Michael O'Hanlon, a military analyst at the Brookings Institution, the total cost of maintaining the United States force in the gulf is at least $50 billion per year.

The purpose of spending all this money is to insure that neither Iran nor Iraq threatens the oil fields of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. But the United States currently imports only about 10 percent of it's oil from the Persian Gulf — some $10 billion to $15 billion worth, depending upon world prices.

 

[dennisw]

So the curfews and the bulldozings, etc. without trials, are just my imagination?

Are you terminally stupid? Or are you an evil liar?  Bulldozings do not exist in a vacuum. You know darn well that when a suicide bomber kills some Jews his family house gets razed. What exactly is your objection to this? 

I don't see your Palestinians conducting a some kind of "trial" before they dispatch a suicide bomber to kill some Jewish innocents in downtown Tel Aviv.

[SteveH]

I am rude to those who want to see Israel destroyed. People like you.

Nuts. I am not pro-Israel-destruction or whatever you call it. I just want to disassociate US tax dollars from Israeli policy. Or the policy of any other government for that matter.

You ought to seek professional help about that temper. Doesn't sound like you can handle a rational discussion.

[SteveH]

You know darn well that when a suicide bomber kills some Jews his family house gets razed.

Nuts. It's not clear to me that the family of a criminal should be punished for that criminal's acts.

[SteveH]

You know darn well that when a suicide bomber kills some Jews his family house gets razed.

And I don't see the logic of subsidizing razing houses with US tax dollars. There isn't any. Two wrongs don't make a right. It is just making some Israelis feel better, and making Palestinians madder, so it makes a cycle. Why speed up that cycle with US tax dollars? Sheesh.

[SteveH]

As far as US aid to Israel, you only care what Israel gets.

Actually no. I would prefer to see the US untangled from unnecessary alliances. We should protect our borders, etc., yes. I am not particularly enthralled about sending troops over to protect Saudi families or Saudi oil either. I am for not sending US tax dollars over there period, to either side.

I imagine you'll find some way to twist my position into your own mind's view of anti-Semitism. It seems that the world to you consists of those who are pro-Israeli government, and anti-Semites. You're politically myopic.

[SteveH]

I don't see your Palestinians conducting a some kind of "trial" before they dispatch a suicide bomber to kill some Jewish innocents in downtown Tel Aviv.

I do not presume that all suicide bombers are dispatched by some central state authority with the full approval of the people. That's quite a jump. What proves a suicide bomber is not acting alone? What proves a group has state support? If the state is the problem, go after the state (not civilians who might be innocent). If it is a group, go after that group. With due process. Without US tax dollars. I guess your point is that everyone in the US is supposed to be mad and commit endless US tax dollars down a mideast war rathole unconditionally. No thanks. If that makes me some kind of monster in your mind, so be it.

[dennisw]

Actually no. I would prefer to see the US untangled from unnecessary alliances. 

Not exactly an original thought from you.

We should protect our borders, etc., yes. I am not particularly enthralled about sending troops over to protect Saudi families or Saudi oil either. I am for not sending US tax dollars over there period, to either side.

I figured this would be your libertarian answer. As long as we want MidEast oil we'll be involved there. It's a fact of life. If we weren't involved there China and Russia would be....To dominate and cut favorable oil deals. To freeze us out of MidEast oil. If China dominated the MidEast we would be forced to pay a $20/barrel tax for MidEast oil

[dennisw]

And I don't see the logic of subsidizing razing houses with US tax dollars.

Please stop lying. You know darn well US tax dollars have nothing to do with this.

You don't give a sh*t when Jews are killed by Palestinians. Not once have you said anything on this thread about murdered Jews. You only care when Pallie houses get bulldozed in retaliation for a suicide bomber. You are a disgusting ghoul.

 

[SteveH]

Well, then, it *is* all about oil, then isn't it? (The lefties seem to be at least partially justified in their concern.) Personally I'd rather we work out a better pattern of urban and suburban development rather than be drawn into WWIII over gasoline. Or drill for more oil domestically.

[SteveH]

You know darn well US tax dollars have nothing to do with this.

Sure they do. Now who's being delusional.

You don't give a sh*t when Jews are killed by Palestinians.

Sez you.

Not once have you said anything on this thread about murdered Jews.

Of course I don't condone it. I didn't think it had to be stated explicitly. Now you've got it. Hope you're happy now.

You only care when Pallie houses get bulldozed in retaliation for a suicide bomber. You are a disgusting ghoul.

More name calling. More tempter tantrums. You win any arguments this way, or just start swinging fists at anyone who doesn't see everything your way? Which team, Dodgers or Giants? Do you go to jail often? See a specialist.

[dennisw]

I do not presume that all suicide bombers are dispatched by some central state authority with the full approval of the people. That's quite a jump.

I never said they were

What proves a suicide bomber is not acting alone?

They never have. They are always sponsored and trained by a terrorist group

What proves a group has state support? If the state is the problem, go after the state (not civilians who might be innocent). If it is a group, go after that group. With due process.

I don't see Israelis getting any due process from suicide bombers

You really don't know WTF you are talking about. Meanwhile Palestinian murderers will be hunted down. Some will go to trial and get due process while the rest will die in a hail of gunfire. Or via an Israeli rocket fired into their automobile. Last week 5 Jihadists were killed by a booby trapped radio powered airplane.

[dennisw]

I've spent enough time on a moron. You're a fool.

[SteveH]

I've spent enough time on a moron. You're a fool.

Parting with your usual rationality I see. Very well. No significant loss from my perspective.

[dennisw]

I've spent enough time on a moron. You're a fool.

[SteveH]

I've spent enough time on a moron. You're a fool.

You wrote the same last time. Internet version of Tourette's Syndrome? :-)

[SeenTheLight]

And this is why many "die-hard, FDR, through the wool" Jewish liberals are voting Republican.

I know I sure am! Actually, I'm an ex-"die-hard, FDR, through the wool Jewish liberal" and current Republican. And I know I'm not alone. I too would be interested in knowing what kind of numbers are involved...

[sarasmom]

Thank you so much for your explanation. I have avoided researching it via books and internet searches because of the prevelance of "nazi" related garbage.
Your points make sence.

[Stultis]

I’m not sure when Palestinian Nationalism began to seep into the Left’s dogma, but it appears to have been in the last 15 years or so. I first noticed this trend during a protest of the Gulf War, where I saw pro-Palestinian propaganda with a distinctly anti-Semitic edge to it. It was around this time that the term “Zionists” began to be used as a fill-in for all Jews who simply supported the continuing existence of the state of Israel and as such, were deserving of contempt.

Long before that. The Zionism = Racism resolution in the U.N. was in 1975, as I recall. This was quite intentionally engineered by the Soviet Union, so the reds presumably had their marching orders to foster radical left antisemitism by at least that time.

[BoomerBob]

Let's do away with U.S. tax subsidies as a focal point for your objections against U.S. involvement in Israel. The U.S. has historically invested billions of dollars in countries we deem strategically important to our national interests. $3 billion annually to Israel is statistically insignificant as a percentage of our budget. We will soon be paying exponentially more to various muslim countries (i.e. Turkey) in order to facilitate our military objectives in Iraq.

Further, let's re-visit your original premise of inalienable rights. While I think we all would agree with the concept of inalienable rights would you not also agree that even in our own country there are practical limitations placed on those rights. For example, incarcerated criminals do not enjoy unlimited exercise of their rights. Likewise, governments sometimes place temporary restrictions on rights in order to preserve those rights for the future (as is currently taken place in the U.S. today).

Your examples of Israeli limits on Palestinians (or more accurately, displaced Jordanians with the occasional Egyptians,e.g.Arafat, thrown in) either unintentionally or deliberately convey the impression that those limits were the starting point of the conflict rather than the result of earlier provocation by Arab nations.

What other posters have been trying to convey to you (some more appropriately than others) is that Palestinians and indeed all Arab nations do not recognize the concept of inalienable rights. To apply your solution to the problem, at this time, would only ensure that no one in Israel would possess inalienable rights, arab, jewish or otherwise.

This is not to say that every action taken by Israel is above criticism but clearly their actions are morally superior and more closely aligned with the principles of individual freedom than anything offered by the arab alternatives.

Respectfully--BB