Turkey's leader blames EU for failing to give political support in crisis

Guardian Unlimited ^ | 2/21/2003 | Helena Smith

[a_Turk]

ping.

[Beck_isright]

And 95% of the Turks remember that George I screwed them and that Europe did also. Watch Turkey create a new sphere of power with the Central Asian republics of the old USSR. That would piss off the US, Russia and Arabs all in one fell swoop.

[a_Turk]

I don't see why it should piss off the US. We are partners after all. Better for the US to have a strong Turkish partner than a turkey for one.

[Beck_isright]

Because if the Turkish government was able to form a new alliance from Ankara to the Chinese border through Central Asia, it creates new problems with Pakistan and Russia. I would prefer it, but I think the technocrats in DC would hate it. Especially since it would be fiercely independent and control tons of natural resources.

[DontMessWithMyCountry]

yes, the game, which seems to have impressed you so substantially, is known as playing one person (or entity) against the other, to get one's own way; devoid of team-spirit or loftier goals that exceed complete self-service. Their concern and compassion for the victims of that TYRANT's viciousness is UNDERwhelming. I would suggest that President Bush's 'ratings' have risen in support of the intervening in Iraq because AMERICANS DO CARE about the Iraqi people. We don't care if they're Kurds or not Kurds. We have a real 'issue' ignoring the Stalins of the world. Turkey is 'a turkey'.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

OFFICIAL BUMP(TOPIC)LIST

[WOSG]

yes, the game, which seems to have impressed you so substantially, is known as playing one person (or entity) against the other, to get one's own way; devoid of team-spirit or loftier goals that exceed complete self-service. Their concern and compassion for the victims of that TYRANT's viciousness is UNDERwhelming. I would suggest that President Bush's 'ratings' have risen in support of the intervening in Iraq because AMERICANS DO CARE about the Iraqi people. We don't care if they're Kurds or not Kurds. We have a real 'issue' ignoring the Stalins of the world.

Well said. So ironic that we care more for the oppressed Iraqis than other Muslims seem to.

[Mortimer Snavely]

"Better for the US to have a strong Turkish partner than a turkey..."

Amen to that.

[Mortimer Snavely]

"Turkey not only faced immense US pressure to host thousands of combat troops in the event of conflict but the prospect of catastrophe for its economy, which has yet to recover from the first Gulf war."

How does that proverb go about geese and hens?

[Nogbad]

Ping

[ellery]

That's downright masterful. And any article that begins with "(a world leader) lashed out at the EU today..." automatically brings a smile to my face.

[marron]

Turkey... faced... the prospect of catastrophe for its economy, which has yet to recover from the first Gulf war.

Turkey faced economic catastrophe due to curtailed trade with Iraq, the closure of the border, the shutdown of the pipeline. We are going to open the border, re-establish trade, and re-activate the pipeline.

Hey, no charge. Happy to do it.

[Beck_isright]

I'm afraid your comments reflect the naive nature of the American public. We need Turkey, they need us. If you honestly think we will have a secure Iraq without 6 divisions from Turkey assisting us, you've obviously never been to Iraq or Turkey. The north is rugged country and the Turks will have their hands full keeping another dictatorship out of that region; Iran. Turkey is no 'turkey' as you say. They are watching out for their own nation because in GWI, George Sr. then Klintoon betrayed them and left them with a large bill that almost bankrupted the nation. And of course the EU was no help either. There is more than one "TYRANT" over there so until you see the big picture, save your insults for one of our other "allies"; you know, france and germany.

[Dog Gone]

This story doesn't leave me with a warm, fuzzy feeling. Erdogan obviously resents having to deal with the US, and if our efforts to help get Turkey into the EU had succeeded, he believes that he could have told us to shove it.

So much for thanks.

[a_Turk]

>> This story doesn't leave me with a warm, fuzzy feeling.

This interview was obviously not meant for US consumption.

I think it's a great move use the crack in EU public opinion. The public psyche there has obviously been knocked off its equilibrium by recent events. That leaves them open to suggestion. Perfect time to insert new elements of reasoning into their thought patterns.

>> Erdogan obviously resents having to deal with the US

Not so. In his meeting last December with president Bush he underscored the importance of the US as an ally of Turkey, and how it was his wish that this alliance would remain strong and lasting.

The German article I pinged you to, which had been kindly translated by longjack, shows the beginning of a change of attitude in Europe toward Turkey. The next few months have the potential of changing attitudes all over. This will be a great benefit to both the US and Turkey.

[DontMessWithMyCountry]

They are watching out for their own nation...I know that. I already said that. The problem (besides that they do *not* give a rat's behind about the people in Iraq, there's no mystery to that if we accept that the statements in the article reflect Turkey's motives) is that if they want to say they are an 'ally' (to ANYone) you don't play one against the other for your SOLE benefit. It shows an immaturity in its development. I also wonder if that was long ago apparent to our own gubmint (and perhaps to the EU), which may account for their not being supported in the way that you suggest they should be. We are not a tree that grows money; that money comes from our pockets; I'm not interested in 'saving' Turkey's economy to the detriment of ours. We have LOADS of people here who have no income right now (not by choice), while our BILLIONS are being extorted left and right by other nations. I think Turkey's rep above made it quite clear that they'll be one of the countries (a France, if you will) some day who will have a compromised memory; i.e., no matter what we do for them, when it is 'convenient' for them on another day, they will stab us in the back.

[Dog Gone]

I hope this works out for Turkey. I have mixed feelings about this, because I hate to see Turkey join the EU, an organization I despise. Still, I understand the motivation, both financially and in getting the respect and recognition that Turkey deserves.

Turkey is an important ally of the US, and its strategic importance in the region can hardly be overstated. It's taken a major blow in the esteem of the American public over the past couple of weeks, and there is some damage control to be done.

[a_Turk]

>> AMERICANS DO CARE about the Iraqi people

Yes, and so do the Turkish people care.

I think you are unable to see the whole picture.

Is our war (Turkish and US) against terror limited to Irak? How long should the US remain in a country after it cleanses it of terrorist supporters? How is the US perceived in these countries, where the population has been brainwashed with anti-US peopaganda for decades, and how does that perception promise to affect the US?

This is our border, that is why we absolutely must work together. Perceptions in these rogue countries will not change overnight, and we must work with this reality in mind. Any entity to actually help you in that area would be more productive if it were not perceived as your cronie.

Finally, your reference to my country, an ally of 50 years who has supported your country and your interests in countless ways, as a turkey really hurts. It shows me that you as an individual are as brainwashed as the anti-American public in those rogue states we're about to secure. Please remember: united we stand, divided we fall..

[a_Turk]

>> that they do *not* give a rat's behind about the people in Iraq

Sorry, you're wrong. Those people are our pals. We've lived together in the same country for centuries with them. Still, it would be counterproductive to them, if we did not help the US look out for their interests, since we understand that whole situation very well. You personally do not understand what our help in this case entails.

>> while our BILLIONS are being extorted

Everytime your diplomats ignored our military and political conditions, the price went up as a bargaining tactic. All you heard about was about money, all the Turks heard about was their national security: their military and political conditions for partnering in this war.

>> your SOLE benefit

The US government finally realized that this is not to anyones sole benefit. So should you.