Just how tough is the FCAT? [Take these sample tests, Grades 3-10, from the FL Dept of Education!]

The Sun Sentinel ^ | Feb. 2003 | Sun-Sentinel

[summer]

I work with children at church, and see a lot of wonderful kids who get crushed at school.

gitmo, It's great that you work with kids outside of their school because I think kids get a better chance to learn when more adults are involved with their lives.

And, I agree with you that some kids get "crushed" at school.

But, I am continuously amazed at how some kids are willing to change and can still be molded. The other day I had to send a student out of the classroom, which I rarely do, but, he would not settle down and I wanted to teach. So, after trying many other tactics, and failing at each one, I finally had to send him to the office for awhile.

But, the very same day, later that afternoon -- when I was in the classroom, as I keep the classroom open for students to drop in and work on projects they are doing after school -- here comes this same kid, who I sent to the office. And, he was not mad at me; he actually came on his own, to work. So, he sits down, for a whole hour, and did all the work and more that he didn't do in class. And, I praised him after that, and asked him why can't he let me priase him like that in class? He sheepishly tells me he acted like a jerk today, and he is sorry! I like to think all kids are good kids, and to remember: it is the BEHAVIOR, not the kid, I sometimes don't like. :)

[Jennifer in Florida]

Collier County, BTW, has consistently scored BELOW the median FCAT grades in this state, despite paying its teachers one of the highest salaries in the state, and being one of the wealthiest counties in the state.

I know, sad.. isn't it? I am hoping for my husband to get a transfer so we can move. We're looking at Orlando! :) I remember when I started college, at our local 2 yr community college (this was in New Jersey). So many freshman had to take remedial classes before they could start with English 101. It is all cumulative, certain standards should be met before a student is promoted. We are in the right track in Florida now though.

[summer]

who = whom

[summer]

We are in the right track in Florida now though.

I agree. FL is continuously making great gains in education, even though it is a struggle each step of the way. Some people seem too short-sighted (or politically motivated or whatever) to understand and appreciate how important Gov Bush's leadership has been in education.

[gitmo]

Summer,
I hope I don't sound anti-teacher. My wife and I are extremely involved with our kids' schools and teachers. Maybe too involved, sometimes. And we've have some absolutely wonderful teachers, plus a few who shouldn't be in teaching. In fact, several of our sons' former teachers call us for input, and we ask their opinions of situations. (My wife is on the phone with one of last-year's teachers now, as a matter of fact, getting advice on how we can help our youngest son with a particular subject.) But I do see issues in public and private schools in our area. And I find myself very impatient with school systems that refuse to deal with problem teachers. As far as the issues teachers face today: It is amazing what now falls into the teacher's lap. I was unaware until recently that a lot of children eat all 3 meals at the school. Teachers have to be pharmacologists, psychiatrists, therapists, racial ambassadors, and family counselors.

We were recently told that many of the students live in homes where there is no written material at all. No magazines, no books, no newspapers, no internet. We donated a couple of tons of books from the boys' bedrooms for them to take home. In fact, that's one of the issues my 2nd grader has. He can read most anything, but the class is reading books one word at a time and having the children repeat the words back. He's not very patient with that approach. We've had them excuse him from that class, and help the 5th graders with their reading.

[TontoKowalski]

I have taught in a classroom where only one -- one student, that's it -- came from a 2-parent home.

Summer, how nice to see a post from you. I always enjoy your threads so much. Your comment concerning 2-parent homes struck me.

I'm a Cub Scout Den Leader. I have 10 boys in my den, all of them from two-parent homes. I'm not sure how it worked out like that, but it did.

It is exciting (and exhausting) working with them every week, and I really love the boys. I know how much easier it is to work with my boys than it is for other Den Leaders who have boys from single parent homes. All children deserve love and attention...that's not my point...and certainly no general circumstance applies to every individual.

Long way to get to the point, but those of us who work with kids, even on a volunteer basis, can certainly validate the studies that say that kids from single-parent homes have a harder time with social and learning situations.

[summer]

gitmo, I did not think you were anti-teacher at all; don't worry about it! And, I really appreciated your entire post, especially this part:

But I do see issues in public and private schools in our area. And I find myself very impatient with school systems that refuse to deal with problem teachers. As far as the issues teachers face today: It is amazing what now falls into the teacher's lap. I was unaware until recently that a lot of children eat all 3 meals at the school. Teachers have to be pharmacologists, psychiatrists, therapists, racial ambassadors, and family counselors.

We were recently told that many of the students live in homes where there is no written material at all. No magazines, no books, no newspapers, no internet.

I had a student (and, in one school, most of the class I had was like this one) who kept destroying every supply I gave him/the class to use -- if I gave him a pencil, he would break it; a crayon, he would step on it; you name it, he would destroy it. Or, walk off with it, stealing it.

I talked to him about it, and found out the same thing I found out about other kids: he has no crayons, no pencils, nothing, he claims, at home. He does not have a mom, his dad works at night, etc. So, he is always angry that other kids have what he does not. And, he's always angry. Not a good way for a kid to grow up.

[summer]

Tonto, Thanks for your kind words to me. I always enjoy reading your posts, too. :)

How wonderful that you are a Den Leader! My mom was one too, and I often helped her out when I was growing up.

I agree with your conclusion here:

Long way to get to the point, but those of us who work with kids, even on a volunteer basis, can certainly validate the studies that say that kids from single-parent homes have a harder time with social and learning situations.

I know some will disagree, as there are certainly kids from 2-parent homes who also have problems, but, what you said has been my experience as well. BTW, I am now at a school where the vast majority of students have two parents at home. They are not wealthy kids, but, they do come from 2-parent families -- and, IMO, that makes a huge difference.

Nice to hear from you, Tonto. :)

[DeFault User]

A lecturer/expert on education I heard several years ago cited several government studies that had not been initially tied to education but nonetheless had a gruesome tale. Drug users, criminals, and drop-outs were three times more likely to come from one parent homes than two parent homes.

Some of these kids have two strikes against them before they get to the plate.

[gitmo]

That's one thing we have done for years. We try to supply our teachers with paper, pencil, kleenex, etc. We've found that we can often get a year's supply of paper and pencils for free through business connections. The teachers are always so appreciative. They usually end up spending their own (tiny) salaries on class supplies for the kids.

[summer]

Drug users, criminals, and drop-outs were three times more likely to come from one parent homes than two parent homes.

Some of these kids have two strikes against them before they get to the plate.

Yes. That's why I think it is great that Gov Bush (and President Bush) are so big on mentoring programs. And, keeping families together. I mean, at one point, there WERE two adults involved with the kid, right?

Thanks for your post. :)

[summer]

A big thank you from this teacher! And, I notice it was a GOP president - not a Dem one - who also tries to help teachers with this matter, with the tax deduction now allowed for teachers and their supplies for school.

[Doe Eyes]

I just took the 10th grade science test. I'm glad the discussion isn't about how easy the tests are. I'd feel really stupid.

[summer]

LOL....rightofrush, see Doe Eyes' above post. :)

[ClaireSolt]

Two comments:1)I have read that the question that is most often missed on the Florida teacher certification exam is: How many pints are in 2 gallons?

Frankly, I don't see how anyone would be able to function without knowing measures. Cooking, in particular keeps this fresh in one's mind.

There has been a lot of affirmative action in hiring the teacher corps. Many highly qualified and experienced teachers have had to stand aside and find other careers (me included) to make way for hiring at the cheapest price. Too often this results in teachers being so ignorant that they literally do not know the material that they are supposed to teach.

For example, although we have an oversupply of people with PhD's in history, 80% of the people teaching history in the American schools have neither a major or a minor in history. This is according to the Director of National History Day at the University of Maryland.

Also, earlier a teacher said that they are coping with 3rd grade reading levels in the eighth grade.

For years I taught at Lincoln University in Jefferson City Mo where 80% of incoming Freshmen could not read at the 10th grade level, and many who had graduated highschool were really reading at the third grade level. It seemed to me that they had been cheated by their schools.

But, teachers cannot teach what they themselves do not know, and in my career they were jerked around between reading programs so much that many did not know how to teach reading. Teacher colleges developed the idea that noone knew how to teach reading.*

Lately, they have developed the excuse that poor children cannot learn. Yet, I know many lower class people who are 60. They read and compute very well, even though they grew up poor. My experience was that one very compent Reading PHD could teach the teachers to teach reading effectively to produce very good results.

We had a Freshman program that took these students and brought them up to speed in no more than 1 & 1/2 years. I asked the director of the reading program once why that was. She replied that there were no Reading PhD's in their highschools and elementary schools. Likewise, qualified math PhD's did get those with low math scores computing well enough to take the required algebra courses. Very deficient chronic underachievers learned to write paragraphs, too. Then, and only then did they get to take college level work.

President Bush had a nice way of dealing with deficiencies in the teacher corps in Texas. He held summer training to upgrade the skills of teachers who already were employed and had seniority. This approach recognizes that some credentialed teachers have also been shortchanged by the edu system and their deficiences can be remedied so that they can do a better job. It honors their vocation and helps them do it better. 2)Every place I ever taught, I was given a curriculum to teach and a textbook to follow. When the curriculum and tests are coordinated, there should be no surprises as to what is expected and what will be tested. Teachers should know and so should parents.

Both when I was a child and when I was parenting my own children, the Iowa tests were administered every year and provided everyone with measures and standards of compentency.

I went to a Catholic primary school where egalitarian nuns drilled everyone on the three r's until they got it. As a high achiever, I sat and watched as others took longer to master the material. This gave me realistic experience with the ideal that everyone can and should learn basic skills.

My mother was a convert to Catholicism and she didn't think much of those nuns, so she watched test scores very closely. When my own children were in last ranked Missouri schools, I studied Iowa test results every spring and supplemented their work in the summer, accordingly. This worked until junior high when glaring deficiencies in the educational standards became very evident and my children found it very hard to respect teachers who couldn't even speak and write correctly, themselves. We ultimately solved this by moving. In Kansas and Nebraska high schools my children got good high school educations a la 1960.

My point here is this: testing was a routine and useful evaluation tool in the public schools in the past. Abandoning testing and annual achievement contributed to the destruction of some very fine schools. New York was formerly the leader in testing to standards for promotion, and because of its fine schools education was seen as the path of advancement for immigrants. Now, New York City schools are failing.

I started teaching in California, then the top rated school system in the country. It was wrecked too.

However, there are schools in Iowa and Kansas where every graduate goes on to college. They have not forgotten the goals and ideals of the American public school system. They are run by local school boards! They leave no child behind. *see "The Underground Grammarian" online for the role of teachers colleges in the dumbing down of America out of self interest.

[Jakarta ex-pat]

Summer, if I may, I'd like to comment on just a couple of your responses.

1)"The entire matter gets blown out of proportion because most teachers themselves so loathe tests. I don't - but most do."

I concur. Tests are a very useful tool in allowing both student and teacher to be aware if something is amiss.

2) "Most teachers are overjoyed when Friday finally rolls around."

Count me in, and I LOVE teaching. In fact, I usually finish Friday's lesson with a resounding "Here Comes The...

At which the students will scream weekend.

I've been lucky enough to teach all spectrums.

However, if a student isn't "intelligent", he or she can still make a valuable role in society.

That said, as in sport, the top need special nurturing, for without the cream, the milk may taste sour.

If I were looking for a teacher at my school, I would first look for knowledge of subject, second an ability to manage a class (discipline), and third a sense of humour.

Of course, all would be made irrelevant should the teacher lack the skill of "teaching"

Keep fighting the fight, and of course...

Keep smiling,

Philip.

[Jakarta ex-pat]

For years I taught at Lincoln University in Jefferson City Mo where 80% of incoming Freshmen could not read at the 10th grade level, and many who had graduated highschool were really reading at the third grade level. It seemed to me that they had been cheated by their schools.

My mother taught me.

Why blame the schools?

[ClaireSolt]

I blame schools which require attendance and cost a lot of taxpayer money when they do not produce. Taking 12 years out of a person's life by force of law is a form of incarceration and should not be tolerated, unless the good it produces far outweighs the loss of liberty.

I praise schools and teachers which do a good job.

[Amore]

I've been giving the FCATs a lot of thought lately. I believe in their purpose, & I think they do a lot of good. Unfortunately, like anything in the world, they are not perfect. It seems to me that the children who get shorted under this system are the smart kids from 2 parent families who care about their kids and work with their kids on their education. They don't need the heavy emphasis on the basics. And those kids are getting shorted in their education on other things like social studies, history, all the subjects that are not on the test.

It is those underachievers already mentioned in this thread who come from dismal homes who are being helped by this. Under the previous system, those kids were passed on through without ever learning the basics of reading and writing. And the funny thing is that the very children who are being helped by this new system are those who have parents who vote party-line democratic.

[summer]

Hi Philip, Thanks for your wonderful post here. I so enjoy reading your comments. I especially liked this part:

That said, as in sport, the top need special nurturing, for without the cream, the milk may taste sour.

Bravo!

summer :)!