Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Peggy Noonan: Dem Problems
Opinion Journal ^ | 03/03/03 | Peggy Noonan

Posted on 03/02/2003 11:50:58 PM PST by Pokey78

Edited on 04/23/2004 12:05:19 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Recently Andrew Cuomo asked me to contribute to a book of essays on the future of the Democratic Party. I thought I would send it to Andrew through OpinionJournal.com. That way he will be able to see your responses pro and con and perhaps include a few of them in the book, too.


(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: banglist; peggynoonanlist
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-144 next last

1 posted on 03/02/2003 11:50:58 PM PST by Pokey78
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Howlin; Miss Marple; mombonn; Sabertooth; beckett; BlueAngel; JohnHuang2; *Peggy Noonan list; ...
Pinging Peggy's list.
2 posted on 03/02/2003 11:52:12 PM PST by Pokey78
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
Another winner from Peggy. They won't heed a word of her advice, of course. For example, she says that they should allow people like the late pro-life Bob Casey to speak. They could have done that. He would have been booed out of the room. These days he would have been booed out of the room if his entire speech was nothing but criticising W. Sad, in a way.
3 posted on 03/03/2003 12:09:29 AM PST by AmishDude (Go Greens!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
(Sure they should be registered, but registration should exist to allow the law abiding to have guns, and not be twisted into a way to keep guns out of everyone's hands.)

I---don't think so. Otherwise, an on-target article.

4 posted on 03/03/2003 12:14:36 AM PST by stands2reason
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
She nails it. That's why I left the democratic party. I was raised a democrat...and went through the first 20 years of my life thinking that there were 2 kinds of women...democrats and others. I would only be allowed to marry a democrat. I voted for Dukakis. Then something happened. I noticed the DNC didn't think like I thought. They seemed to hate America and the things about America I loved. I voted for Clinton in '92...but held my nose. Within 2 short years...I was a rabid Republican.

Thanks Clinton and DNC for opening my eyes...if you want somebody to blame for losing a democrat for life (and BTW...my mom is a republican too now thanks to X42)...blame yourself.

5 posted on 03/03/2003 12:17:08 AM PST by NELSON111
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AmishDude
Her description of Slick was tamer than desired, but politcaly on the money.

Wonderful article, great read.
6 posted on 03/03/2003 12:20:41 AM PST by JoeSixPack1 (POW/MIA - Bring 'em home, or send us back! Semper Fi)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
My overarching impression of today's Democrat Party,is their fervent desire to stab America in the heart.Their turning point,which they do not yet realize,but,future historians are sure to acknowledge,was the deification of all things Clinton.The party has been infected with hatred and anger and oozes sleaze.You can count on one hand the number of Democrats you would want to share an elevator ride with,let alone a meal or political discussion.They have become very unlikeable individually and untrustworthy, as a whole.
7 posted on 03/03/2003 12:20:43 AM PST by Wild Irish Rogue
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
Think of all the great people who became Republicans, when the Democrats, ``left them.'' Noonan and Ronald Reagan, for example.
8 posted on 03/03/2003 12:22:19 AM PST by nickcarraway
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
Please put me on the "Peggy List" :-)
9 posted on 03/03/2003 12:24:03 AM PST by JoeSixPack1 (POW/MIA - Bring 'em home, or send us back! Semper Fi)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
Again, Ms. Noonan is right on the mark...perfect. Here is every reason to NOT be a dimocrat.
10 posted on 03/03/2003 12:28:43 AM PST by NetValue (Saddam is a threat to the future of the world as we know it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
Half the country is wondering if we are in the end times. (Excuse me, I mean they fear man may be living through a final, wrenching paroxysm, the result of man's inhumanity to man and of the inevitable culmination of several unhelpful forces and trends.)

Guess what, Peggy - there are more than a few of us who aren't wondering any more. It isn't rocket science or prophecy - all it takes is a modicum of understanding of human nature, some grasp of history and, for crying out loud, paying attention to what's going on around you. Sometimes ideas and events converge to produce a watershed in human history. The age-old struggle between those who claim the right to dictate the terms of existence to everyone else and those of us who recognize that no such 'right' exists is coming to a head once again. We're choosing up sides along a dividing line that cuts across national boundaries and political parties; it's a fundamental difference in world view that ignores the self-imposed borderlines of race and the hierarchies of class. For many of us, the light has begun to dawn on the fact that there can be no appeasement of evil, no compromise to be had with the erstwhile masters and minders of humankind. Moderation has no place here - not in this time or in this place.

Oh - one last thing, Peggy: your call for gun registration will be one of the proximate causes of the next American Civil War. It goes something like this: I will refuse to register any of my weapons at any time or for any reason. That is a line in the sand whose crossing I will not peacefully allow. Those who come to confiscate my 'unlawful' un-registered weapons and to arrest me me for non-compliance will not find me at home - I will already have taken to the field in order to hunt down those who sent them.

11 posted on 03/03/2003 12:30:38 AM PST by Noumenon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JoeSixPack1
I can picture Peggy Noonan and Anne Coulter as Good Cop Bad Cop. The Dems stand no chance with such a one-two punch.

This is one of Peggy's best articles ever. Of course, I say that every time she writes a new column. Incredible! What a classy and gutsy lady!
12 posted on 03/03/2003 12:31:13 AM PST by winner3000
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway
Bump for later

Regards

alfa6 ;>}
13 posted on 03/03/2003 12:33:28 AM PST by alfa6 (GNY Highway's Rules: Improvise; Adapt; Overcome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
She should have addressed tort reform and the Judiciary, but otherwise, a fine article. The good news is that Andrew will pay no attention.
14 posted on 03/03/2003 12:33:57 AM PST by Fracas
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JoeSixPack1
Will do.
15 posted on 03/03/2003 12:38:42 AM PST by Pokey78
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
You have had only one two-term Democratic president in the 35 years since Vietnam. This is because in the end you looked extreme, bought and paid for, and weak.

And beholden to a wacky mish-mash of goofy, liberal special interest groups that seem to be the bulk of the party itself. Gun-grabbing extremists, abortion-on-demand extremists, race-hustling "reparations" extremists, land-grabbing environmental extremists, America-hating and capitalism-hating extremists, and regular old parasites who depend on the Democrats to confiscate from society's producers and hand out lots of "free stuff"..... Why on God's green earth would normal, traditional American families want anything to do with the Democrat Party?

16 posted on 03/03/2003 12:43:36 AM PST by Lancey Howard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lancey Howard
Right on! I remember my mother,a "yellow dog Democrat" telling me she had voted for Reagan. It told me she had finally accepted what I had been telling her,that her party had left her.
17 posted on 03/03/2003 1:01:32 AM PST by MEG33
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: stands2reason
What you said...yep...
18 posted on 03/03/2003 1:10:47 AM PST by EternalVigilance
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
I'm surprised about her focus on abortion for part of this essay. I think she's said that she is essentially pro-choice but I think even some pro-choice people are starting to realize that NARAL is pro-abortion.
19 posted on 03/03/2003 1:29:06 AM PST by Question_Assumptions
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MEG33
Yep... the party left us.... with FDR, Harry Truman and JFK you had Presidents who knew what they stood for and where they wanted to take the country and people respected them even if they didn't always agree with them, for trying to do the right thing. That's what you can say about the greatest Democratic Presidents of the last century. Today's Democractic Party is nothing like them and wouldn't recognize them because it can't. If they were alive today, they'd probably get booted out of the party. What can you say about the Democrats current crop of presidential candidates is that they sure aren't what they used to be. Today the Democrats are all about calculation, positioning, and being slick and people are turned off. Peggy Noonan gave the Democrats heartfelt advice on how to regain their former greatness but I doubt they'll take the time to listen. More likely they'll continue to blame Americans for everything that's wrong with our country, which I suppose is fitting for a party that had lost it way since the late 1960s and never found itself back to where it once was. No wonder no one's buying from them.
20 posted on 03/03/2003 1:35:36 AM PST by goldstategop
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: winner3000
Wow, I would have a hard time picking a "best". This one is definately a homerun! She rounds out the objectives previously addressed in years gone by and sums it up with a well thought out scolding of lockstep win-at-all-costs rat power grabs.

What she only slightly touched on is the biggest headache the rats have - CLINTOON (the pair). The hitlery and slick political scheming rotates around purchasing special interest and single issue votes and completely alienating or simply ignoring majority voters. An article on a previous FR thread spoke of hitlery's mathamatical projections of winning a Prez elections without a single white male vote. (Dead white male voters are ok)

A complacent media cares only about on-air face time and ad dollars and our country's well being is their last concern. Peggy and Ann just flat out don't drink that brand of cool-aid the toons and the rats offer up but face a juggernaught of liberal elites countering their advise.
21 posted on 03/03/2003 1:56:25 AM PST by JoeSixPack1 (POW/MIA - Bring 'em home, or send us back! Semper Fi)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
Miss Peggy really cuts through the murkiness of today’s socialist Democratic party. It is Gephardt who seems to be calingl for a union akin to Hoffa’s organized crime as his base. It Tom Daschle and his class warfare or Hillary’s strident and mendacious call to the feminists, radical activists of all sorts as she did in the 60s and 70s. It Nancy Pelosy coming into the media light swinging like a mad miner who had been underground too long, spouting an anti-American pro socialist rhetoric long dead. It is all those slick and corrupt DNC leaders they cling to; it has not been about America and Americans for a long, long time.

I too hope Cuomo doesn’t pay attention to Peggy’s excellent advice other than to rally around a deserving President and put America first. One other thing; she hits the nail squarely on when she touches on elitism, snobbery it is that arrogance and their anti-Americanism that will do them in and is.

22 posted on 03/03/2003 2:05:53 AM PST by yoe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: goldstategop
"...to blame Americans for everything that's wrong with our country..."

To a democrat, what's wrong with America is that it's America. They utterly despise our heritage, our cherished institutions and our values. It's just like having thousands of Aaron Burr clones running around.

23 posted on 03/03/2003 2:11:36 AM PST by Bonaparte
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
Bump. Thanks for the great post.
24 posted on 03/03/2003 2:13:16 AM PST by Dec31,1999
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
Peggy asks the Democrats to show class and integrity. I think she is asking them to show things they believe are liabilities. The Democrat elected leadership has NO class nor integrity. They squandered it all in the quest for power. I hope elected Republicans are capable of having enough vision to see that and not follow the same path. I am not always convinced they do.
25 posted on 03/03/2003 2:42:46 AM PST by ImpBill ("You are either with US or against US!")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
How can one person be this insightful? It's never just one comment that "shines the light," it's twenty. Amazing.

My Democratic friends, when you think about this question, ask yourself if snobbery as a political force isn't part of the reason you stand where you stand.

26 posted on 03/03/2003 2:57:17 AM PST by GOPJ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Noumenon
jeepers creepers
27 posted on 03/03/2003 2:58:17 AM PST by babble-on
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
Damn, That was GREAT!!!
28 posted on 03/03/2003 3:01:32 AM PST by An.American.Expatriate
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
Best line of the article: And they're not teaching their kids to love you.

Absolutely right!

I was a Democrat for a long time, until I turned 35 or so (See Winston Churchill). Now my kids wonder where we go to meet Democrats! LOL.

29 posted on 03/03/2003 3:04:15 AM PST by txzman (Jer 23:29)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
Free Republic Highlights 3/03/03 (doesn't that date look cool?)
30 posted on 03/03/2003 3:06:28 AM PST by I Am Not A Mod
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lancey Howard
Why on God's green earth would normal, traditional American families want anything to do with the Democrat Party?

Aren't too many of those left. The Democrats understand this. The MTV generations and their ideological ancestors just "want something for nothing" as it were. With only a vague and indifferent education, they are thoroughly committed to "me" and are unconcerned with anything else.
31 posted on 03/03/2003 3:17:04 AM PST by Freedom4US
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
The Democratic Crime Syndicate should be shown the ash heap of history. The Republicans, Libertarians, Constitutionalists and Freepers should be steering the political course of this great nation. Criminals are anti-freedom. For them to have their own political party is unbelievable.
32 posted on 03/03/2003 3:28:23 AM PST by PGalt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Noumenon
The age-old struggle between those who claim the right to dictate the terms of existence to everyone else and those of us who recognize that no such 'right' exists is coming to a head once again.

Afraid so.

Standing by...

33 posted on 03/03/2003 3:36:04 AM PST by backhoe (The reason you enjoy Rights is because hard men with guns in hand stand before the barbarians...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
Have a philosophy instead of an ideology, hold it high and dear, and attempt to apply it, not impose it.

The comely Miss Noonan might as well have just suggested they squeeze water from a rock.
Liberal ideology cannot be transposed to a philosophy because it's intrinsically one of hegemony over the will of the people, and their innate desire for freedom.
Much akin to Lenin, Mao, et al, the liberal ideology is premised on the notion that those occupying the offices of power know what's better for the citizens, whether they like it or not.

34 posted on 03/03/2003 3:38:48 AM PST by jla
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
Miss Noonan is a marvel.

It has been very good for the GOP, overall, to have so many adherents who are former Democrats. Those people learned from their mistakes; they saw that what they'd advocated had gone wrong, thought about the reasons, and abandoned their allegiance to what didn't and couldn't work. Learning is most effective when it's personal, based on the recognition of one's own mistakes, rather than borrowed from the experience of others.

Freedom, Wealth, and Peace,
Francis W. Porretto
Visit The Palace Of Reason:
http://palaceofreason.com

35 posted on 03/03/2003 4:29:23 AM PST by fporretto (Curmudgeon Emeritus, Palace of Reason)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
My favorite passage, in particular the last line:

Let me be, admittedly, mean, but to make a point I can't figure out how to make any other way. Those who oppose the right to keep and bear arms are not as a rule the kind of people who would, or could, take down a nut waving his gun at the kids in a McDonalds. Those who oppose gun rights are more like the kind of people who when the incident was over would write a sensitive essay about how it felt to come face to face with one's existential powerlessness when faced with the sudden force of a sick man who alas shot two kids right in front of me. You may mean to be helpful in the abstract, but you are not helpful in the particular.

Ms. Noonan is a national treasure!

36 posted on 03/03/2003 4:48:57 AM PST by alwaysconservative (In search of a good tagline)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Freedom4US
"...Why on God's green earth would normal, traditional American families want anything to do with the Democrat Party?

Aren't too many of those left....."

Excellent point. The statistics are interesting. In rough numbers, only 30% of households has children under the age of 18 present. Only 8% of households is made up of a married couple with children at home and a mother who does not work outside of the home. I don't have numbers relating to female headed households with young children present, but am quite certain that it is higher than 8%.

Increasingly, America is made up of single parent households, seniors, immigrants and minority groups. Each segment benefits from government sponsored transfer of wealth from economically viable households (read: reasonably well educated, married) to less economically viable households.

The Democrats can knit together a very powerful coalition by buying the votes of the less economically viable households, satisfying the "I-want-sex-without-consequences" crowd (abortion rights) and embodying the discontent of the "I'm-in-a-life-long-rebellion-against-Daddy" crowd (environmentalists and peaceniks). In reality, the numbers stack up very much against the Republicans.

I hate to say this, but Peggy is "projecting" her feelings onto a generation that largely doesn't share her views. We are a minority and a shrinking one. GWB has done as much as one could to stem the tide. It's not enough, however; and the Democrats, with their insatiable lust for power, will rise to the top in the relatively short term.

Peggy, we've won a battle or two, but we've lost the war.
37 posted on 03/03/2003 4:52:43 AM PST by irish_links
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: fporretto
The power of ideas has rooted in the Conservative party, and Noonan is a competent gardener.
38 posted on 03/03/2003 4:54:27 AM PST by Enduring Freedom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: stands2reason
I agree, the only part of this article that made me cringe was the comment about gun registration. She needs to brush up on the history of gun registration and where it leads.
Otherwise a good article.
39 posted on 03/03/2003 5:12:12 AM PST by aeronca
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: xsmommy; dubyaismypresident
Peggy Ping
40 posted on 03/03/2003 5:14:08 AM PST by hobbes1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
As usual, and as the previous posters have generally agreed, Peggy Noonan provides the insightful commentary for which she is famed. Ms. Noonan describes the Democratic Party precisely for what it has become.

The line I liked the best was: This is the Democratic paradox: You want so much to run America and yet you seem not so fond of Americans. This will be the cause for the party's ultimate downfall.

The only flaw is her support of gun registration. Surely she must know that in every instance of gun registration, sooner or later, gun confiscation follows.

41 posted on 03/03/2003 5:48:37 AM PST by OldPossum
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
you have got to know that no political party primarily funded, supported and led by fierce pro-abortionists, by people whose great interest in life is seeing to it that the right to kill infants is retained, can long endure. Nothing can long stand on a foundation like that. Nothing.

FABULOUS article.

Peggy Noonanwill deliver the 20th Annual Frank L. Marcon Lecture, Tues. April 22, 2003, at 7:30 p.m., in the Billera Sport and Fitness Center at DeSales University, outside of Allentown, PA. The lecture is free and open to the public but tickets are required. Call (610) 282-4604 for tickets. Immediately following the lecture, Noonan will sign copies of her books for those interested.

http://www.desales.edu/servlet/RetrievePage?site=Desalesu&page=home

42 posted on 03/03/2003 6:00:02 AM PST by Dr. Scarpetta
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
As long as they're law abiding, and responsible enough to respect the damage guns can do, conservatives completely support their right to have arms. (Sure they should be registered, but registration should exist to allow the law abiding to have guns, and not be twisted into a way to keep guns out of everyone's hands.)

A jarring note in an otherwise great essay. I like Peggy so much that I will give her the benefit of the doubt, that she was really trying to say something like: 'Gun registration would be a great idea if it weren't for unchangeable human nature, which includes the inevitable drive of politicians to dominate and control.'

43 posted on 03/03/2003 6:10:52 AM PST by FairWitness
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78; *bang_list
Regarding the right ro keep and bear arms I question Peggy when she talks of registration being a means for people to have arms. When someone can show me a case of where registration has not been used for eventual confiscation or further limiting of the right to keep and bear arms I may revise my view of it. On second thought no given the history of registration any registration should be opposed.
44 posted on 03/03/2003 6:24:55 AM PST by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
One of the biggest crimes of the Democrat Party was the politicization and polarization of important matters like environmental issues, civil rights/social issues, patriotism, etc. They made these and other issues a "we-vs-them" matter rather than working together to solve common problems.
45 posted on 03/03/2003 6:26:24 AM PST by Consort
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
Big Home Run Bump ... She hasn't written one like this in a while (that I'm aware). Yes, a little squishy on gun registration but otherwise superb -- deep, insightful, courageous. She loves the idea that is America. So do I. And so, I think, do we all here on FR.
46 posted on 03/03/2003 6:33:21 AM PST by Phaedrus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
Too late. They've already made a pact with the devil.
47 posted on 03/03/2003 6:35:21 AM PST by Search4Truth (Power perceived, is power achieved.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway
How often do people lvea the GOP to go to the Democrat Party? How many become successful in the party? None that I can think of...
48 posted on 03/03/2003 6:37:22 AM PST by Teacher317
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Teacher317
How often do people leave the GOP to go to the Democrat Party? How many become successful in the party? None that I can think of...
49 posted on 03/03/2003 6:38:38 AM PST by Teacher317
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: Pokey78
I'd love to be added to your Peggy Noonan ping list!

Peggy Noonan once again tells the truth in such a wonderful way. The thing is that Andrew Cuomo already knows everything she says is true but he continues to act according to The Clinton Party Rulebook (i.e., dropping out of the New York Mayoral race in 2002). The other Democrats know what she says is true as well, but they continue to follow that same book (i.e., Daschle's behavior in the Estrada judicial nomination; all the Dem presidential candidates on stage proclaiming their pro-abortion stance).

What can they be thinking? Do they think if they perpetuate the power of the Clintons that they'll have a big spot in the limelight? Tommy D., if you allow Hillary to be your president (I will personally secede if that ever comes to pass) all you'll be her is court jester and you won't be allowed to look in her eyes if you pass her in the hall.

50 posted on 03/03/2003 6:51:45 AM PST by arasina
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-144 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson