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Pope John Paul II may ask to personally address UN Security Council to stop Iraq war
AFP via Babelfish translation ^ | March 3, 2003

Posted on 03/03/2003 2:46:58 AM PST by HAL9000

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To: Byron_the_Aussie
"This Pope was a warrior against Communism,"

That's why this shoe doesn't fit...there has to be something, underneath. It is so obvious Saddam is cut from Stalin's cloth. Remember how the Pope was, prior to the priesthood, an actor? I think he is trying to deflect and at the same time keep Saddam distracted while the last minute civilian scurrying is done.
61 posted on 03/03/2003 5:46:52 AM PST by Domestic Church (AMDG..)
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To: Byron_the_Aussie; patriciaruth
PR: "..at heart he's anti American and has demonstrated that time and time again..."

BA: "Time and again, eh? Give us four or five examples, then."

JP's against anyone who may be pro-Israel - the heart of American foreign policy in the Middle-East. He has publicly declared on numerous occasions his shameful support of the blood lust (Jewish) murderer Arafat who praised children strapped with bombs who are driven by his hateful rhetoric to murder the children of Israel.

Why do you demand examples from others that are available to you on the internet. JPII has never been a friend to America, or that which he pretends to represent. That it's suggested he is now supporting another hater of Israel is no surprise. It's a disgrace.

I am including a few examples of JP's anti-USA and anti-Israel positions to refresh your memory :

The Palestinian National Covenant, Article 15:
"The liberation of Palestine, from an Arab viewpoint, is a national (qawmi) duty and it attempts to repel the Zionist and imperialist aggression against the Arab homeland, and aims at the elimination of Zionism in Palestine. Absolute responsibility for this falls upon the Arab nation - peoples and governments - with the Arab people of Palestine in the vanguard. Accordingly, the Arab nation must mobilize all its military, human, moral, and spiritual capabilities to participate actively with the Palestinian people in the liberation of Palestine. It must, particularly in the phase of the armed Palestinian revolution, offer and furnish the Palestinian people with all possible help, and material and human support, and make available to them the means and opportunities that will enable them to continue to carry out their leading role in the armed revolution, until they liberate their homeland.

Holy See has always recognized Palestinians' right to a homeland (in Israel)
"....No one can ignore how much the Palestinian people have had to suffer in recent decades. Your torment is before the eyes of the world. And it has gone on too long." -- JPII

The Palestinian National Covenant, Article 19:
The partition of Palestine in 1947 and the establishment of the state of Israel are entirely illegal, regardless of the passage of time, because they were contrary to the will of the Palestinian people and to their natural right in their homeland, and inconsistent with the principles embodied in the Charter of the United Nations, particularly the right to self-determination.

The Palestinian National Covenant,Article 20:
The Balfour Declaration, the Mandate for Palestine, and everything that has been based upon them, are deemed null and void. Claims of historical or religious ties of Jews with Palestine are incompatible with the facts of history and the true conception of what constitutes statehood. Judaism, being a religion, is not an independent nationality. Nor do Jews constitute a single nation with an identity of its own; they are citizens of the states to which they belong.

Dheisheh Refugee ( Read Squarter ) Camp
"Throughout my pontificate I have felt close to the Palestinian people in their sufferings.....The Church, through her social and charitable organizations, will continue to be at your side and to plead your cause before the world." -- JPII

The Palestinian National Covenant, Article 22:
Zionism is a political movement organically associated with international imperialism and antagonistic to all action for liberation and to progressive movements in the world. It is racist and fanatic in its nature, aggressive, expansionist, and colonial in its aims, and fascist in its methods. Israel is the instrument of the Zionist movement, and geographical base for world imperialism placed strategically in the midst of the Arab homeland to combat the hopes of the Arab nation for liberation, unity, and progress. Israel is a constant source of threat vis-a-vis peace in the Middle East and the whole world. Since the liberation of Palestine will destroy the Zionist and imperialist presence and will contribute to the establishment of peace in the Middle East, the Palestinian people look for the support of all the progressive and peaceful forces and urge them all, irrespective of their affiliations and beliefs, to offer the Palestinian people all aid and support in their just struggle for the liberation of their homeland.

In May of 1996 the Holy See with the blessing of John Paul II decreed, "...The part of the City (Jerusalem) militarily occupied in 1967 and subsequently annexed and declared the Capital of the State of Israel, is OCCUPIED TERRITORIES, and all Israeli measures which exceed the power of a belligerent occupant under international law are therefore Null AND VOID. In particular, this same position was expressed, and is still expressed, by Resolution 478 of the United Nations Security Council, adopted on 20 August 1980, which declared the Israeli "basic law" concerning Jerusalem to be "NULL AND VOID"..." ( URGENT CALL FOR A WORLD WIDE CHRISTIAN STAND ON JERUSALEM

Arafat, Pope to sign accord
"....the Patriarch of Jerusalem, Michel Sabbah, said Pope John Paul II intends to plead, during his visit to Bethlehem next month, for the right of Palestinian refugees to return to their occupied land. The Catholic church backs the right of all Palestinian refugees to return to their homeland, Sabbah said."

The Palestinian National Covenant, Article 23:
The demand of security and peace, as well as the demand of right and justice, require all states to consider Zionism an illegitimate movement, to outlaw its existence, and to ban its operations, in order that friendly relations among peoples may be preserved, and the loyalty of citizens to their respective homelands safeguarded.

The Palestinian Authority has never rescinded this 'Covenant'.

62 posted on 03/03/2003 5:48:37 AM PST by Robert Drobot
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To: Domestic Church

"God - God! Why did you put so many jerks in the world - at one time!"


63 posted on 03/03/2003 5:54:31 AM PST by Fitzcarraldo
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To: piasa
" it only undermines Osama bin Laden's message since it looks like America is in defiance of "the Church." "

Very good point...it is both a deflective psych ops and a philosophy operation for the Pope to color his opinion this way and if he knows he will be able to save innocent lives by grandstanding (and cloaking some action by this) he surely will take this position.

Interesting to note that the al queda operations big cheese caught this weekend was the one who orchestrated the recent(90's) attemped bump off of the Pope.
64 posted on 03/03/2003 5:58:49 AM PST by Domestic Church (AMDG..)
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To: Robert Drobot
JP's against anyone who may be pro-Israel

"Woe to any nation that goes against my people Israel." -- Holy Bible.

65 posted on 03/03/2003 6:00:56 AM PST by concerned about politics (Saddam needs a check up from the neck up.)
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To: this_ol_patriot
. This may further damage the Church in America if that is even possible now.

Don't you worry about the Church. She is protected by the Holy Spirit. She is in essence the beautiful bride of Christ and the beloved of Christ Jesus.

66 posted on 03/03/2003 6:01:05 AM PST by Renatus
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To: Byron_the_Aussie
THe Pope should keep his mouth shut.

It he goes to see Bush, I would make him stand in the snow barefoot for three days.

67 posted on 03/03/2003 6:01:19 AM PST by ScholarWarrior
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood
I didn't point you out as anti-Catholic. However, I've noticed many times on this forum the knee jerk reaction to start throwing anti-Catholic slurs around and it's not necessary. I'm Catholic, I'm well aware of the problems the Church has gone through and is going through, but when folks speak ill of my faith or beliefs it should be out of bounds on this forum.
68 posted on 03/03/2003 6:04:10 AM PST by KansasConservative
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To: Robert Drobot
BTTT!!!

NICE presentation of *a few* of the irrestible facts that are a matter of public record!!!

Now let's see .... I wonder who will be the first to accuse you of "bashing". LOL
69 posted on 03/03/2003 6:04:44 AM PST by Matchett-PI (The ball is in Saddam's court. The decision is his. It will be a shame if he chooses war.)
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To: ScholarWarrior
It he goes to see Bush, I would make him stand in the snow barefoot for three days.

According to various prophacies throughout the ages, the next pope will deny Christ all together. He'll live a very short life. After him, there will only be one more pope and that's the end of that church. It goes too far to the left to survive.

70 posted on 03/03/2003 6:06:28 AM PST by concerned about politics (Saddam needs a check up from the neck up.)
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To: HAL9000
Just one more war that the pope won't fight--Add it to priestly sex abuse. Does he not have a clue about what is going on in his own backyard or in Iraq....or does he just not care?
71 posted on 03/03/2003 6:06:57 AM PST by Pure Country
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To: HAL9000
This is what delaying has reaped. It's easier to acquire forgiveness than permission. - GO Dubya!
72 posted on 03/03/2003 6:08:44 AM PST by Let's Roll (Whether we bring our enemies to justice, or bring justice to our enemies, justice will be done.)
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To: Fitzcarraldo
And how would Werner Herzog have changed that scene?
73 posted on 03/03/2003 6:15:17 AM PST by Domestic Church (AMDG..)
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To: KansasConservative
"when folks speak ill of my faith or beliefs it should be out of bounds on this forum."

Christ should be your faith. Not Man or an institution. No one is speaking ill of your faith. No one should follow blindly, I do not believe that is what Christ would want us to do. This is my faith. The Pope going to the UN is an ominous development.
74 posted on 03/03/2003 6:17:26 AM PST by Bulldogs22
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To: Matchett-PI
The world is in the middle of a religious war. With the mass murder of Christians in the Balkans, Africa and Malaysia, and the incremental and never-ending slaughter of Jews in Israel, the Protector of The Faith rises to be heard in defense of those who hate are aggressively destroying Christianity - a faith having it's roots in the Jewish religion.

Christ Jesus was a Jew. Christ Jesus chose to be a Jew. His mother was a Jew. God Almighty chose a Jewish woman to be the mother of His Son.

The one man in the entire world who has a spiritual responsibility to lead the One True Church kisses the Koran, wears the Indian Hindu high priest Brahman symbol on his forehead, and rises to speak in support of those who are determined to murder Christians and Jews.

Taking a line from the old game-show "What's My Line, I'm driven to ask, "Will the real Roman Catholic Pope please stand up."

75 posted on 03/03/2003 6:19:19 AM PST by Robert Drobot
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To: pollywog
What I fear is misuse of the Doctrine of Papal Infallibility by those who would do us harm or don't understand our position with regards to Iraq. The Doctrine of Papal Infallibility is very complex and not easily understood and even today there is much discussion about it. It is sufficient to say that it deals in matters of faith and morals to be held by the whole Church. It does not deal with political or worldly events.

While the Pope may be a good holy person with nothing but the good of the whole world on his mind there is nothing to prevent him from being wrong. Many good holy people have misinterpreted events in the past and will do so in the future. In other words his opinion on this is just that, an opinion of a man and as such is subject to error as much as any other person. The problem as I see it that the Pope has such esteem worldwide that an error on his part carries more weight and harsher consequences than a normal person and to do this without all the facts at hand is especially dangerous.

An insidious outcome of this could be that the Pope does get enough support and somehow does stop President Bush from doing his duty. Then several months later Iraq launches on Israel with some horrible weapon. The possibility that the Church just started rather than prevented WWIII is highly probable. Now how would they work themselves out of that little hole?

This is why I believe that while the Catholic Church and the Pope have a right and possibly an obligation to issue an opinion on this they have gone over the line by inserting themselves into the political argument as a party to it.




76 posted on 03/03/2003 6:20:34 AM PST by this_ol_patriot
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To: KansasConservative
"...when folks speak ill of my faith or beliefs it should be out of bounds on this forum."

Speaking for yourself, you are on solid ground as long as you *personally* don't speak ill of the Left's religious / political beliefs (which go hand in hand and cannot be divorced from each other).

77 posted on 03/03/2003 6:21:34 AM PST by Matchett-PI (The ball is in Saddam's court. The decision is his. It will be a shame if he chooses war.)
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To: Bulldogs22
Christ is my faith, don't worry about that. The Pope is the head of my church. I beg to differ but this forum has a lot of Catholic bashing.
78 posted on 03/03/2003 6:23:20 AM PST by KansasConservative
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To: Byron_the_Aussie
This Pope was a warrior against Communism, even took a bullet in that fight.

In reality, this Pope is a relentless self promoter who never acted particularly courageously at all. In WWII, he was an actor that did a few underground plays and who was reported to feel really bad about how the Jews in his hometown were treated, but never managed to perform any feat to try and save them. During the Cold War years, he got along very well with his Communist masters, and never really did get embroiled in Polish politics - no one ever could point to resistance activities, no contacts came froward, etc. When he became Pope, he was a symbol to Polish nationalists, but that was about it.

In the meantime, most of his pronouncements have seemed to drip with scorn as to the "materialism" of the West, in particular, the United States.

79 posted on 03/03/2003 6:30:00 AM PST by Chancellor Palpatine (those who unilaterally beat their swords into plowshares wind up plowing for those who don't)
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To: HAL9000
Gee, I've never heard him ask to speak against terrorism before the UN.
80 posted on 03/03/2003 6:31:50 AM PST by roses of sharon
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