Democracy Nonsense - It’s not liberty.

NRO ^ | March 5, 2003 10:40 a.m. | Goldberg, Jonah

[CyberCowboy777]

Did not see this posted

[js1138]

I could be wrong, but I remember Bush using the word Freedom.

[CyberCowboy777]

I have heard the words liberty, democracy and freedom used interchangeably. Though the President himself may not be taking part in the mixup.

[CyberCowboy777]

Ari Fleischer got it wrong

The POTUS said:

“The liberty we prize is not America’s gift to the world, it is God’s gift to humanity.” -George W. Bush

[CyberCowboy777]

As I've said numerous times, in its purest form, democracy is little more than the system by which 51 percent of the people can pee in the cornflakes of 49 percent of the people.

lol

[CyberCowboy777]

When "hanging chad" wasn't just the name of a necrophiliac gay porn movie, it was easier to make jokes about current events.

[js1138]

Bush has great instincts and great writers. If history is taught in the future -- something I doubt -- his speeches will go down with the greatest of them.

[CyberCowboy777]

I mostly agree

I have cringed at the timing and/or word usage at times.

But overall he hits a cord that few can, at least in our current times.

[LiteKeeper]

read later

[js1138]

He definitely has a speech impediment. Lots of great and famous leaders have, including Moses.

[Semaphore Heathcliffe]

And Mel Tillis.

[hippy hate me]

"Friday" is not gifted by God and deserves no credit. "Friday" was derived from the Germanic Frigga the name of the Norse god Odin's wife. To say, "Thank God it's Friday" is wrong. It's just goofy. </sarcasm>

[CyberCowboy777]

Very True.

I understand that Lincoln had a high pitch voice?

[Cicero]

What Jonah says here is basically correct. Democracies and Republics are two forms of government. Mixed constitutions and balance of power are an ancient ideas inherited from the Greeks and Romans. But freedom is a gift of God. Westerners crave freedom partly because of the basic influence on their thinking over the centuries of Judaism and Christianity.

Some threads over the past year have pointed out that the religion of Islam leaves no room for freedom. Everything is fated or predetermined by Allah. There's no such thing as free will or free choice. Those are merely ignorant illusions. Islam resembles an extreme form of Calvinism.

Muslims like to have a cushy life, lots of money, plenty of wives, good food, the power to crush their enemies, and such good things. But that's not really freedom, it's an arbitrary gift from Allah or the Sultan. One day on a whim the Sultan may give you riches, the next day on another whim he may execute you. That's why so many Arabic stories are about good luck--people finding genies in bottles, friendly houris, and stuff like that. But there's very little in their stories about choice, freedom, concern for other people, or real merit and virtue, which are found in so many western stories.

[qam1]

But freedom is a gift of God. Westerners crave freedom partly because of the basic influence on their thinking over the centuries of Judaism and Christianity.

Where???

The "Heros" of the bible are made up of kings and tyrannts. Most notably is Mosses whose cruelity and brutality make Saddam look like a pussy cat. The only society in the bible that resembles a free one is the Romans and according to the bible They Were the Bad guys.

[Ohioan]

Better than many things which the writer has produced lately. Certainly the main points about Democracy are correct. It is hardly an admirable idea for most peoples. It almost always becomes downright evil when applied to a non-homogenious third world nation. (See Democracy In The Third World.)

But the assumption that it is somehow the responsibility of America to impose a political system on Iraq is a leap that is unjustifiable in terms of any acceptable ethic. If the present Government of Iraq endangers America, then we are justified in opposing it. That does not translate into a mandate for our Government and our tax dollars to experiment in social engineering overseas, after we deal with the immediate problem.

This confusion in what is and is not our responsibility goes to the crux of policy determination. If Conservatives start letting their wishes become horses, and begin to imagine that pigs really do have wings--just like all the "Liberal" visionaries who helped turn the 20th Century into a succession of bloody and extravagant nightmares. we are in deep trouble.

William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site

[FirstTomato]

Perhaps it would be more correct to say that Westerners crave freedom because of the great effect that the age of enlightenment had on Christianity and Christians.

On the other hand, the age of enlightenment had little effect of Islam or any other religion, except for Judaism. So Muslims stayed mired in the 12th century, Hinduism is mired in its engrained inhumane caste system, etc.

In other words, the effects of the rise of the philosophers in France, the importance of the bourgeois, and the economic changes that capitalism brought were influencing Christianity for the better.

What has impacted Islam in such a positive way?

[Cicero]

The Age of Enlightenment was in part a reaction against Christianity. (Ecrasez l'Infame.) But at the same time it grew out of Christianity. Subsequent events have shown, in the opinion of many, that reason alone is not enough to govern society or give meaning to life. But it has been well documented that the rise of western science and technology and its confidence in the validity of reason rest in large part on the Christian view of the universe--what has sometimes been summed up as the theology of the Logos.

[Cicero]

Far be it from Cicero to deprecate the Romans. You would think that after a couple of centuries of persecution Christianity would have turned against Rome, but paradoxically after the conversion of Constantine Rome and Christianity converged. The vision of Roman law and Roman order was kept alive all through the middle ages and the Renaissance by Christians.

[lizbet]

"Islam resembles an extreme form of Calvinism."

You have better run for cover! The Calvinists find out that you type that, they will flame you! 8-)

Really, that is why I am not a Calvinist, I don't accept that God predetermines people to go to Heaven or Hell. Everyone has a choice. Unfortunately, most people reject God.