Bill Would Limit Smoking by Apartment Dwellers - & allows law suits if your smoke drifts

kxtv ^

[Protagoras]

More advocating OHSA. More pap.

If everyone did the right thing all the time the threat of force would never be needed for anything.

And governments define the "right" thing? You mean people like Hillary and Bill? They have a great track record for forcing people to do the "right" thing.

You think that not allowing smoking on private property is the "right" thing. Many disagree.

[Fraulein]

AB 210 would allow residents, landlords or homeowner's associations to sue tenants who allow second-hand smoke to drift beyond their apartments...

I'm not exactly sure how they could really prove that, at least not de facto, unless they plan to have cops standing outside your doors, ready to catch you while the so-called "criminal deed" was in progress. And how come every anti-smoking law always involves the smoker having to pay money? Hmmm.

[Fraulein]

If everyone did the right thing all the time the threat of force would never be needed for anything

That's the most idiotic statement of the day, for sure.

[HamiltonJay]

. Our government has authorized itself to use deadly force to enforce any and every regulation on the books. That IS fascism.

Hardly, you aren't going to get SHOT by a government agent for discriminating in your leasing behaviors... you aren't going to go to be shot for violating the Germaine act, or for violating OSHA regulations. You may face penalties, including jail time but that's not "Deadly force".

Enforcment of law is not defacto facism either. Italy During WWII was a facist country, and while I may not agree with many regulations, business or otherwise, this nation is nowhere near a FACIST state. People making such claims do so for rhetorical impact, and weaken their argument by relying on nothing more than incendiary rhetoric. Our business regulations in america are no more an act of Facism, than being a republican makes one a NAZI or RACIST. Such incendiary rhetoric is nonsense, and its use by both sides of the political spectrum undermines the arguments they put forth. These words have pretty much lost all meaning because they are thrown around with callous disregard for rhetorical purposes. Voting Republican is not RACIST and business legislation frameworks are not FACIST. Those are nothing more than ideological propoganda talking point nonsense.

[CaptainJustice]

Has your friend ever tried the crazy idea of going downstairs, knocking on thier door and trying to reach a compromise WITHOUT government intervention?

Thank you! Americans have become so isolated we cant even resolve conflict like civil people. "Ew smoking is gross, there should be a law!" Howabout you just avoid people who smoke and reach a compromise if you have to be around them. Most people should be nice enough to work with you, and those that aren't, oh well thats life. When did life stop being about flexibility and tolerance and start being about litigation? I'm guessing some time in the 80's. :)

[Fraulein]

You may face penalties, including jail time but that's not "Deadly force".

And I suppose for that we are to be thankful?

[Critter]

Hogwash. Take any violation of any regulation, however minor, and refuse to submit to the punishment. You will see just how fast it becomes deadly force. Spoken in my best Nazi imitation: "You must capitulate, or you will die."

[FreeTally]

You may face penalties, including jail time but that's not "Deadly force".

LOL!!!

Try not paying the fine and see if they don't come for you. Try resisting going to jail and see how long you remain alive.

[Fraulein]

You may face penalties, including jail time but that's not "Deadly force"

And what happens if you refuse jail time? Or run from it?

[HamiltonJay]

I never said I agreed with NOT allowing people to smoke on private property was the right thing... now it is you putting words in peoples mouths... and as to Bill and Hillary, you should check my history before you put forth such nonsense. Just because I don't agree with your incendiary rhetoric does not mean that I voted or even supported Bubba or his husband.

You think business regulations are largely oppressive and destructive, many would disagree with such a stand. You are out promoting that FACISM runs this nation... which most would highly disagree.

You can continue down your all law is opression nonsense, by all means we need to keep the anarchists around, since they give us such entertaining riots every few years, but its not the way of the world, and its not reality. It is a far cry from "this law is stupid" to "all law I don't deem personally good is facism". I agree with the first part, that this "bill" its not a law yet, is dumb, unenforceable and largely a waste of time... but that does not lead to the second statement. You are trying to argue that point a equals point b by spouting off rhetorical words and statements... which is not true.

[ZDaphne]

I live in a condo and have the same situation here. Add to that mix an elderly person with breathing problems who cannot go outside without breathing someone else's cigarette smoke and painfully coughing their guts out just to go to their mailbox. (cough cough) Smokers are universally inconsiderate and they stink, in more ways than one. I rest my case. (cough) I welcome CA's law.

[Im4Starr]

Won't be long before inconsiderate addicts are only allowed to smoke in specially designated fields miles away from any humans. If only they were considerate they would have avoided all this.

With all due respect, based on your posts on other smoking-related threads (here, here, and here, for example), it seems as though you enjoy spouting opinion and judgments but offer no basis for your conclusions.

Do you find smoke from a candlelit dinner repugnant as well?
Do you not enjoy cozying up by the fire with your S/O?
Or, what about campfires...surely the smoke that Boy Scouts inhale shouldn't be permitted.
Have you ever been to Elizabeth, NJ? (The whole town should be banned (in my opinion using your logic) for offensive odors harmful to everyone's health.)
What should be done about people who don't shower daily?
How about restaurant employees who don't wash their hands after using the bathroom?
Are you concerned about getting cancer or some sort of health-related illness from smokers?
Can you honestly say that you believe the media-tales when it comes to 2nd hand smoke?
Why is it that you feel the way you do?

Providing an answer to at least the last question would be helpful...at least then we can possibly steer away from the name-calling, argumentative aspect and perhaps try to have an actual intelligent stimulating conversation. :)

[HamiltonJay]

Hogwash. Take any violation of any regulation, however minor, and refuse to submit to the punishment.

I see, so in your mind then all law enforcement of any kind is "DEADLY FORCE"?

Please... You get killed assaulting a police officer for resisting arrest, it wasn't the violation of the discrimination act that got you killed. You pay the consequences of your actions... you stupidly engage in an activity that does warrent the use of deadly force, you get what you deserve.

You don't get killed for failing to pay taxes, in fact few violations of the law are violations that carry "DEADLY FORCE" so your nonsense argument that any legal violation can be punished by deadly force shows either complete ignorance, or complete insanity. You are welcome to violate any rule you wish, just don't expect not to be held accountable for it. Or in other words, don't do the crime if you aren't willing to do the time.

What insane leaps of logic people make here.. unbelievable. Any law breaking is enforced by deadly force... what hogwash. You choose to break a law, you accept the consequences for your actions... of course that's a little too much personal responsibility for some "conservatives" around these parts I suppose.

[Protagoras]

You may face penalties, including jail time but that's not "Deadly force".

ROTFLMAO

[HamiltonJay]

And what happens if you refuse jail time? Or run from it?

Then you have conciously decided to violate more laws beyond the one that got you in trouble in the first place, and these new violations may incur deadly force. This however is an independent infraction from the original... and quite frankly if you conciously choose to engage in an act that violates the law, you accept that you may face enforcement of it. If you then try to escape enforcement you not only violate new laws, but show that you have no concept of personal responsibility and this being a "conservative" site, I know no one here would be that Bubba like in their behaviors.

[HamiltonJay]

Try not paying the fine and see if they don't come for you. Try resisting going to jail and see how long you remain alive.

Not paying the fine is a seperate violation, you know this. I suppose that you believe that enforcement of law should only be on the willing? I know a few million criminals just waiting for your viewpoint to dominate the legal system... of course that's a pretty "liberal" idea you are promoting... you sure you are on the right site?

[CheneyChick]

So she needs a law to force her will on others because she can't afford to live in a place that costs more than $350K?

Nope. If the neighbor would simply show some respect while exercizing their right to smoke, she could have her right to breathe clean air. The only person forcing anything here is the smoker - who insists on forcing everyone around to breathe their stinky air.

Again, I have friends who smoke (even a friend from FR- like, OMG!) and I don't have a problem with it, because they are considerate smokers and they don't have a chip on their shoulder about their "right to smoke".

[Protagoras]

I welcome CA's law.

Another "conservative" weighs in.

[FreeTally]

I see, so in your mind then all law enforcement of any kind is "DEADLY FORCE"?

You are staring to catch on.

That is the reason why laws are ONLY supposed to protect rights. Laws against robbery, arson, rape, murder, assault are just laws because they protect individual rights by punishing the violation of such. A person who a) does not recognize the right of another individual to not have force intiated against them and then b) resists such punishments has no place in a free society, thus the use of deadly force as the ultimate "back up" for enforcing those laws is just.

Now, cotrast that with edicts, such as smoking bans, OSHA regulations, prohibitions of substances and the like. These laws do not protect against the violation of rights, they merely "enforce" a way of life that everyone has not agreed upon. It is not legitimate, or just, to pass such laws where the ultimate "back up" for resisting the punishment is the use of deadly force. A person pretty luch saying "I'll smoke in my house whetehr you like it or not" is not akin to a person saying "I'll take whatever property of yours I wish whether you like it or not". One shows the clear disregard for the rights of others while the other shows self-determination, an ideal not worthy of death.

[FreeTally]

The only person forcing anything here is the smoker - who insists on forcing everyone around to breathe their stinky air.

How does a smoker force anyone to be around them?