Displaced Americans

Washington Times ^ | March 14, 2003 | Paul Craig Roberts

[sarcasm]

U.S. corporations no longer have to outsource your high-tech or information technology (IT) job to China or India. They just bring your replacement here on an L-1 visa.

L-1 visas get around the legal technicalities that Congress placed on the H-1B visa program. Employers are not supposed to use H-1B visas to bring in foreigners to displace U.S. employees or in order to cut costs by paying low wages. H-1B visas are supposed to be utilized only when there is a shortage of particular skills, and the visa holder is supposed to be paid prevailing U.S. wages.

[Billy_bob_bob]

For some reason I'm reminded of this quote by Abe Lincoln;

"I see a crisis approaching that causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. Corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow. The money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign until wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed."

Now, I'm not positive that Abe said this, but I have seen this quote attributed to him from several different sources. Just wanted to share this thought.

[holyscroller]

Several Freepers have been bitten by these rottem H1B's

[OldFriend]

It's gone way beyond this. Those folks are being laid off in droves and the jobs are moving to the very countries they left to come here to work.

[madfly]

fyi

[dirtboy]

I have no problem with competing with programmers and companies in other countries. I do have a problem, however, when our government takes away my competitive advantage of being in this country by letting in foreign programmers to work here when we already have a surplus of IT workers.

I really see a new political party forming soon - since neither the Dems nor the GOP is willing to address the hemmorage of jobs from this country, there well may be the formation of a new party that is willing to address the issue, and IMO it would attract wide-based support.

[taxed2death]

....be careful around these parts, you might be called "protectionist", "paleocon", etc.

All the globalists on this BB are going to chime in now and tell you to "get with the times", or that your skills are "old world technology"....the gubmint should not put any constraints on who corporations may hire...bla, bla, bla.


Screw Americans...everyone for the bottom line.....batton down the hatches and full steam ahead :)

[Carry_Okie]

"I see a crisis approaching that causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. Corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow. The money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign until wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed."

His comment was because of the 14th Amendment definition of corporate persons "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" as citizens acquiring equal protection of the laws. Prior to that change in the Constitution, corporations could not own land in the United States. The drafters of the Constitution feared corporations as representatives of moneyed European nobility. As I understand it, the Eastern elite that won the Civil War sold out to European investment to pay the war debt (a war precipitated in some respects by European meddling). Subsequent to the war, a flood of European money drove the nation to the West, but it also began the process that led to the very foreign entanglements the founders feared.

[dirtboy]

Screw Americans...everyone for the bottom line.....batton down the hatches and full steam ahead :)

I read something years ago that really caught my attention and made me think - and now we are seeing that point come to full fruition. The writer stated that a corporate executive living in a gated community in Kansas City has more in common with his economic counterparts in Singapore and Shanghai and Bombay and Kuala Lampur than he does with middle-class working Americans living five miles away - and, with the high-speed communication and travel capabilities of modern life, it's easy for him to connect with those people. So the corporate class really IMO doesn't have much of a connection to their country, other than the need to influence their governments to extort favorable tax treatments, labor laws and trade terms.

[B4Ranch]

Here's another look at the out sourcing picture.

[doc30]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the immigration laws change recently where the spouses on intra-company transfer visas (L-1) were also permitted to work in the U.S.? The spouses of H1-B, however, are not allowed to work while in the U.S. unless they too can get corporate sponsorship for their own H1-B.

[doc30]

Here is a reference to the L-2 (spouse of L-1) law signed THIS YEAR. This will allow the spouse of an intra-company transfer to work without any labor certification in the U.S.! This is far more serious than H1-B sponsorship. Get a cheap IT worker from india and their wife and children under 21 can all work in the U.S. but for an H1B holder, only the H1B may be employed, not the whole family! Based on the article above, the L-1 visa will have a far more dramatic effect on the U.S. workplace than H1B's will, even if their spouses are allowed to work!

Thursday, January 17, 2002 - President Bush Signs L-1 Visa Spousal Work Authorization Measures into Law - Courtesy of AILA

H.R. 2278 (PL 107-125) provides work authorization to the spouses of L visa holders.

HR 2278, becoming PL 107-125, provides for work authorization for nonimmigrant spouses (L-2) of intracompany transferees (L-1).

Section 214(c)(2) of the INA has been amended by adding the following:

"(E) In the case of an alien spouse admitted under Section 101(a)(15)(L), who is accompanying or following to join a principal alien admitted under such section, the Attorney General shall authorize the alien spouse to engage in employment in the United States and provide the spouse with an 'employment authorized' endorsement or other appropriate work permit."

The L-2 Visa Holder Spouse may request employment authorization for up to 2 years at a time. This employment authorization may be renewed.

[junta]

It is one thing to disenfranchise the likes of the lower classes such as "hillbillies" and "urban youths" for they can be contained by force since the great masses of the middle fear them, but to disenfranchise people with way about average IQ is near suicidal. If we did the math and counted up the media, financial and political elite we are talking a small minority whom by the day become less popular as their shtick begins to ring hollow. I for one would not cross the street to p%#s on anyone from the "elite" if they were on fire.

[holyscroller]

"I really see a new political party forming soon - since neither the Dems nor the GOP is willing to address the hemmorage of jobs from this country, there well may be the formation of a new party that is willing to address the issue."

Maybe we could call it the American Party. (Since neither the Dims or the Pubs represent Americans anymore).

[taxed2death]

That's what I meant....I forgot to put the /sarcasm tag on there.....oops.

[Paulie]

"I really see a new political party forming soon - since neither the Dems nor the GOP is willing to address the hemmorage of jobs from this country, there well may be the formation of a new party that is willing to address the issue, and IMO it would attract wide-based support."

I wish you were right but I don't think so. If a viable third party hasn't emerged by now, they never will, IMO. I don't have to tell you the multitudes of good reasons for a call to arms by the masses...it just doesn't happen.

There was a time in the not so distant past that I would've bet my bottom dollar that a second civil war here was imminent. The justification for it is obvious. Nothing of substance ever seems to happen and we keep sinking further into the abyss.

[SolutionsOnly]

This is a tough issue. I've been in computer sciences since the early 80's and I've witnessed this firsthand.
I've often wondered "Why am I working with so many foreign nationals - why aren't American kids filling these jobs?"
I really don't know where to place the blame, but I think it starts right here at home with a good hard look in the mirror.

Do we blame consumers demanding lower prices?
Do blame the education system for poor quality workers?
Do we blame Americans students for shunning technical degrees?
Do we blame government interference tht drives up costs?
Do we blame unions for excessive pension and benefit costs?
Do we blame stockholders, mutual funds, and 401k's for demanding higher returns on investment?
Do we blame corrupt management and excesssive CEO salaries?
Do we blame a corroding work ethic?
Do we blame the shortage of worker competency?

My answer is: all the above.

I've had no problem staying staying self-employed in this industry. Why? Because I'm good at what I do. I'm not saying it's easy, but it boils down to this: If I continue to add value to a company and help reduce their costs, I have nothing to fear. If I want to sit in a cube all day and preoccupy myseld with the football pool, well then I should fear for my job.

Protectionism is not the answer. That's what the French and Germans do. It doesn't seem to be working that well there. I'm pretty sure it will only do harm. People must be active regarding their careers. This is a rapidly changing world. The primary driving force of it is the consumer demanding low prices - the ramifications of that are huge. H1B visas are only one example of it.

[FITZ]

The government is biting the hand that feeds it. Where does it think the tax money will come from when Americans don't have jobs. A government which believes jobs are important for the Chinese and Mexicans but that Americans don't need them is too foolish to keep around.

[SolutionsOnly]

Your point is well taken. I'm not saying there's not an problem here. I'm not saying I like it either. I don't. It's disturbing.

But if American Companies don't stay competetive where do we end up?

Or what if they just pick up and move overseas? Is it better to lose the whole ball of wax?

I don't see an easy answer. And I shudder at the thought of the government trying to impose a solution.