Divide Among Jews Leads to Silence on Iraq War

The New York Times ^ | 3-15-03 | LAURIE GOODSTEIN

[mr.pink]

Is that the fault of the "insidious Taiwanese lobby?"

Although my Taiwanese friends certainly were in favor of Clinton's actions, I don't remember seeing Taiwanese-Americans front and center as media talking heads, or as opinion writers, lobby non-stop for the actions taken in the situation you've chosen as an analogy.

I get the point you're attempting to make, but IMHO you should find a better comparative group for your example.

[HumanaeVitae]

Good point. However, the broader point is that we are willing to take on far greater risks for those who do not explicitly lobby the United States as much as Israel does.

[Mr. Mojo]

"The only consensus we could come to was that there is no consensus," said Hannah Rosenthal, executive director of the Jewish Council for Public Affairs

If a Democrat were now in the WH, there would be a nearly 100% consensus for war.....guaranteed. Partisan loyalty - as opposed to loyalty to principles - is blinding these people.

[veronica]

What a bunch of cr-p this is, that the Jews are causing the Iraq war.

My, but this is so confusing. One day we read that a cabal of Jews is pushing for the war, and the next we read that Jews are not pushing for war, for a fear of a backlash.

The bottom line is there is always a gang of idiots ready to make any issue about "the Jews," from one perspective or another.

[xJones]

The only people slamming the Jews currently is the global Left, not the right.

There's the problem. In America, the majority of the Jewish vote goes to left wingers. But the left wing in America now has a lot of Jew haters. What to do?

Jewish anti-war left wingers were very active protestors during the Viet Nam anti-war demonstrations. Here's another war, and the left wing Jews are waffling. There's nothing like the fun of a self-righteous anti-war protest, but how can they march with Jew hating protestors?

The left wing isn't what it used to be. It's not fun for left wing Jews to be left out in the cold. Something must change.

[meema]

bump

[singsong]

Here is an Israeli poll from December - 61% support a war, 33% oppose. Why are the American Jews more afraid of Saddam? Or do they have their loyalties totally mixed up?

http://quickstart.clari.net/qs_se/webnews/wed/bo/Qiraq-israel-poll.ReNJ_CDR.html

[SJackson]

I guess Jews, in the eyes of the Gray Lady, are like Blacks and Hispanics. They are "protected persons" and are not allowed to have individual opinions. They must accept the views assigned to them by the editorial board of the New York Times.

You got it right, though Catspaw’s double barf is close.

I laughed when I read this article (btw, the author is the religion editor, not a newsperson), mere days after the Moran/Buchanan attack on Jews as the fomenters of the hawkish GWB-Cheney-Rice policy (we work behind the scenes), a week or so after the articles about left wing peacenik Jews getting expelled from peace rallies, we now discover that Jews can’t make up their collective mind (singular, we can control the world, but can’t come up with a unified policy).

As you note, like hispanics, like blacks, I’ll add Catholics, Lutherans, Mexicans, Thais, Chinese, et al, opinions differ. It’s the politics of division, courtesy of the NYT, and I’m sorry to say, widely accepted.

[SJackson]

Liberal Jews at the NYT stirring the pot, as usual. Barf.

Liberal Jews at the NYT? Part of their market, perhaps, the ones who keep electing the Republican mayors, but neither the editor, nor the owner.

Episcopalians, I believe, stirring the pot, pulling the strings of their Jewish (don't know if she is) reporters..

I'll have to ask Pat, there may be a conspiracy of sorts at work here.

[SJackson]

...I have never gotten why the liberal Jewish crowd like Boxer et al have been such disruptors.

Two possible reasons.

1-Israel isn't an important issue to them.

2-See 1, they're voting on other issues, not Israel, no matter what Pab says.

3-To whatever extent Israel matters to more liber Jews, there's substantial disagreement as to the best course to take.

Many (a majority in the US?) would secure Israel's future by withdrawing to essentially the 67 lines, at which time they could hold hands and sing kumbaya (sp?) with deactivated terrorists.

Naive, stupid, I think so. But they do honestly disagree.

[SJackson]

Unfortunately, the "institutions of internationalism" have long ago become institutions of anti-Semitism.

Perhaps, but in any event America shouldn't base policy on "institutions of internationalism".

[SJackson]

The only people slamming the Jews currently is the global Left, not the right.

That depends on your perspective. There are many, from Pat to Sobran to Duke who would describe themselves as voices of the "right", the true conservatives (whatever that means).

[SJackson]

The bottom line is there is always a gang of idiots ready to make any issue about "the Jews," from one perspective or another.

:>)

[SJackson]

Here is an Israeli poll from December - 61% support a war, 33% oppose. Why are the American Jews more afraid of Saddam?

That's a poll of Israelis which has nothing at all to do with American Jews.

[Celtjew Libertarian]

Perhaps, but in any event America shouldn't base policy on "institutions of internationalism".

Quite so. But that answer was more to Rabbi Schorsch than anyone else.

[singsong]

Here is an Israeli poll from December - 61% support a war, 33% oppose. Why are the American Jews more afraid of Saddam? ***That's a poll of Israelis which has nothing at all to do with American Jews.

The article on top of this thread said 52% of American Jews are pro war. My point was why the support in Israel is higher although they are more likely to suffer if Saddam retaliates.

[SJackson]

Quite so. But that answer was more to Rabbi Schorsch than anyone else.

I understand. IMO, those institutions, the UN, NATO, in their current form, may well be in their death throes.

[SJackson]

August 2002 to February 2003 found 52 percent of Jews in favor of military action, 32 percent opposed and 16 percent uncertain; among all Americans, the polling found 62 percent in favor, 28 percent opposed and 10 percent uncertain.

I don't know the source of your poll well, but I don't dispute it. Note what the article said though, re American Jews.

August 2002 to February 2003 found 52 percent of Jews in favor of military action, 32 percent opposed and 16 percent uncertain; among all Americans, the polling found 62 percent in favor, 28 percent opposed and 10 percent uncertain.

IMO, that 52 vs 62 differential (though the result must break Pat's heart) is largly the result of todays dem/rep ideology which to the discredit of the dems equates to anti/pro war, the dems don't seem able to support Americas actions and, legitimately, bash GWB to their heart's content on domestic issues. It's not about Israel.

[rmlew]

Go read Pat Buchanan's latest diatribe in the American Conservative
http://www.amconmag.com/03_24_03/cover.html

[laconic]

An example of individual Jews who have contributed much to America is Irving Berlin, who wrote: 1) the best Christmas song (White Christmas); 2) the best Easter song (Easter Parada); and, 3) the best patriotic song, God Bless America.