David Quinn: We’ll all pay a heavy price for poisoning America’s Irish stew

The Sunday Times ^ | March 16, 2003 | David Quinn

[MadIvan]

On Thursday I shook the hand of the world’s most reviled man. No, not Saddam Hussein but George Bush. The occasion was the St Patrick’s Day reception in the White House. It was a very small affair compared with the days of Bill Clinton. Only about 60-80 people were present and of that number probably less than a quarter were Irish.

The fact that Bush turned up at all was a minor miracle. The previous day he had cancelled all engagements to muster support for a further United Nations resolution and it was entirely possible that he might have done so again on Thursday. But he met Bertie, accepted the bowl of shamrock, discussed the north and Iraq and then addressed the reception — again talking about the north — after which he met anyone who wanted to meet him.

That he showed up at all reveals how patient the Americans are with the Irish. It also highlights how successfully the government has walked the tightrope between pacifying domestic opinion, which is mostly anti-war and anti-American, and maintaining good relations with America — still our best friend in the world.

It’s as well for the friendship that Bush wasn’t at the bash in the Irish ambassador’s residence that night because it would have been put severely to the test. Almost every Irish person at the reception who offered an opinion was against the impending war against Iraq — and loathed Bush. All the usual fabricated nonsense was being spouted. It’s about oil; the Americans armed Iraq in the first place; Bush is the real threat to world peace.

Dealing with this level of ignorance is like draining an ocean with a thimble, but let’s try anyway. First of all, it’s not about oil. If oil was so important, why would the world’s stock markets be heading south so fast? You’d imagine they’d be soaring in the expectation that the Yanks would get hold of all that black stuff. And, if it was really about oil, why didn’t the Americans grab the oilfields during the first Gulf war? No, the US didn’t arm Iraq. The Russians and the French did that. You remember them, don’t you? They’re the ones doing their level best at the moment to try to protect their ally Saddam from the Americans. The Iraqi air force, such as it is, comprises Soviet and French fighter planes and bombers and its tank fleet is full of antiquated Soviet models.

The Americans have passed on almost no weaponry to Iraq and whatever material aid was given to it was in the 1980s during the Iran-Iraq war when it looked as though Iran might win. At that time, Iran represented the greater threat in the region.

It was not an endorsement of Saddam. It was the equivalent of giving Stalin weapons with which to defeat Hitler. Stalin was awful, Hitler was worse, and when the second world war ended it was time to deal with Stalin. When the Iran-Iraq war ended, and Baghdad then turned its attentions to Kuwait, the time had come to deal with it.

As for Bush being the real threat to world peace — well, we’ve been here before. The same kinds of accusation hurled against Bush with monotonous regularity were hurled against Ronald Reagan in the 1980s. Reagan was Ronald Ray-gun. Ho ho. Like Bush, he was a moron. Like Bush, he was a warmonger and a menace to world peace. Except that back then, being a threat to world peace meant you were making more likely a devastating nuclear war. So Reagan was even worse than Bush, if that’s possible. For good measure, Reagan was a failed Hollywood actor whose best part was played opposite a monkey. Oh yeah, and he was a cowboy, again like Bush. Reagan reached the peak of his unpopularity when the Americans were fighting Marxist guerrillas in Latin America and when the time arrived for the basing of cruise and Pershing medium-range nuclear weapons in Europe. That was when the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament was at its peak. Every trendy belonged to it. Huge demonstrations took place regularly all over Europe, just like the anti-war protests of February 15. I was at university back then and I remember being the only person in my class who backed Reagan and favoured the basing of those missiles in Europe. Had Ireland been one of the countries in which the missiles were to be based, we would have had protests as big as the one we had last month.

Time has shown that Reagan’s muscular approach to the Soviet Union was the correct one. Weakness only emboldened the Soviet regime. A tough attitude made it back down. In no time at all, the Reagan policy of challenging Soviet power around the world and outpacing it in the arms race paid dividends. Within a year of Reagan finishing his second term, the Berlin Wall fell.

Had Reagan listened to his critics and appeased the Soviet Union, there’s a good chance that the Soviet bloc would still be in place. The French were especially critical, looking down their noses at Reagan. So much for the wisdom and sophistication of French foreign policy.

During the Clinton era, anti-Americanism abated because the Democrat president backed the sort of multilateral approach to world affairs so in vogue in this neck of the woods. The result was that Osama Bin Laden was able to turn Afghanistan into a base for his activities, and Iraq defied the weapons inspectors and began to weaken the sanctions regime, in both cases with Russian and French co-operation.

Multilateralism of the sort pursued by Clinton only served to make American foreign policy subject to the whim of countries with interests of their own to pursue, as well as to multiply the threats to America and the West in general. The nature of the threat was brought home to America on September 11.

The Americans now know that the softy-softly approach favoured during the Clinton presidency does not work. Unfortunately, Paris and Berlin, with most of European public opinion, don’t yet know this.

What has yet to dawn on them is that unless regimes such as that of Saddam are dealt with, the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction will continue. If America backs down now in its confrontation with Iraq, more countries will feel free to develop nuclear, chemical and biological weapons. When enough regimes have these weapons it will become a mathematical certainty that some will find their way into the hands of terrorist groups — if they haven’t already — and they will be used in western cities.

A vote on another UN resolution on Iraq is due to take place soon. It is vital for Ireland that it goes America’s way, although that seems unlikely at present. If the security council decides to vote against America and its allies, it will present the Ahern government with a predicament. On the one hand, it wants to allow the continued use of Shannon by the US military. On the other hand, without the cover of a second UN resolution, domestic opposition will become so strong that it may force the government to ask the Americans to refuel elsewhere.

Last week in Washington, two Republican congressmen managed to have the name of the french fries and french toast served in restaurants on Capitol Hill changed to “freedom” fries and “freedom” toast. If the Americans can no longer use Shannon, then we may find Irish stew renamed “freedom” stew. The result of Irish anti-Americanism is that Americans may soon get the message that we don’t much like them. The only losers will be us.

[MadIvan]

I think the author exaggerates the extent of Irish anti-Americanism, but one of the best pieces debunking the anti-war crowd I've seen.

Happy St. Patrick's Day (soon) Everyone.

Regards, Ivan

[MadIvan]

Bump!

[wretchard]

Ireland sat out World War 2. It can sit out this one. Irish-American relations suffered no particular damage from Irish neutrality in the conflict against Hitler. Why should it suffer any damage now?

The Irish are coated with teflon as far as most Americans are concerned, for psychological reasons. We can't really get as riled at them as at the French.

[Morrigan]

I hope Irish anti-Americanism is exaggerated. I could care less what the rest of the world thinks, but whenever I hear of British anti-Americanism, or Irish anti-Americanism, I get a pang.....I mean, that is where my family is from! I hope many of them realize they probably have American relatives that they know nothing about. The English surnames carried by my family members are fairly common, as are the Irish ones. I am sure I have traceable relatives from both countries that I, unfortunately, will never know.

[TheLurkerX]

I love the Irish, but I also descend from the Norse invaders, so I guess I could go either way.

[Theresawithanh]

Good article. Thanks for posting it.

It escapes me how President Bush can be the world's most reviled man, and not his predecessor - as far as I'm concerned, this country was without a president when Clinton was in office.

[JusPasenThru]

English by birth....
Irish by choice.

[cgk]

Great Article, ping!

[cgk]

Ireland has my admiration in one aspect: abortion is illegal in their country. Way ahead of us there.

[Red Dog #1]

To bad there aren't more clear thinking people like Mr. Quinn. The world would be a saner and safer place.

[Doomonyou]

German, Dutch, Irish, English, and American Indian by birth...

American by Gods Grace!

[norton]

The Irish have always gotten a pass from Americans. Nearly every image we've seen in books and in lore is of a benign and mis-treated folk set upon by a nearby enemy ruled by unfeeling lords and bestial armies.
We still see the friendly cop, friendly priest, and besotted poet - rarely the IRA Nazi sympathiser and terrorist facilitator that also represents that island.
There are still 'charities' in the US that channel money to build bombs for the IRA, just as there are those that fund Bin Laden and his brand of terror.
We just are not very good at recognizing that the 'little guy' is often at least as distasteful as the 'oppressor' he claims to be resisting.

[Reaganwuzthebest]

I could care less what the rest of the world thinks, but whenever I hear of British anti-Americanism, or Irish anti-Americanism, I get a pang.....

At least 100 million Americans have ancestors from the British Isles, including Ireland. What they say and do has more meaning to us as a nation than they realize over there.

[JusPasenThru]

Amen.

[MikalM]

At least 100 million Americans have ancestors from the British Isles, including Ireland. What they say and do has more meaning to us as a nation than they realize over there.

Very true. I'm part Welsh/English, and feel both a cultural and "blood" bond to the British Isles. Thank G-d the UK at least has a US-friendly Prime Minister.

[Capriole]

I'm part English and part Irish. I wanted to go hunting in Ireland this year but after I read what the Irish were saying about us, I cancelled the trip. They didn't see about ten grand of my money, and I won't be buying any hunt horses from them, either. Other American tourists who don't want to be subjected to anti-American abuse have done the same.

Sorry, Ireland, but you folks are the ones who are being arrogant. You propose to tell us what our bearing toward the world should be, but you do not have to deal with foreign entities coming into your country and killing thousands of your citizens. It is not your economy that has been decimated by attack.

The Islamofascists are our Cromwell. You hated, feared, and fought Cromwell when he attacked Ireland, so how can you not understand that we would fight the same thing here? Or have you forgotten your own history?

[Reaganwuzthebest]

Thank G-d the UK at least has a US-friendly Prime Minister.

Britain has been a fairly reliable ally since WW2. France on the other hand...

[frontdeboeuf]

Lots of people are complaining that immigrants are not
coming from Europe these days....

The way that European are behaving, loathing us just for
trying to save them from the coming Muslim annihilation....

I think things are exactly just right, immigrants are coming
here from nations that like us, and Europe will soon be
eliminated by a wave of Muslim immigrants that despise her
and ony dream of exterminating any trace of judeo-christian
civilisation......good for them....good riddance from
bad rubbish!

[Reaganwuzthebest]

good riddance from bad rubbish!

Muslims have immigrated in waves to Europe before and each time were expelled when they became too numerous. It's going to be interesting to see what happens in the coming years, some countries like France are already on the verge of becoming a Muslim majority.

[Happygal]

Ivan...what is this? A Sunday Times HIT PIECE on the Irish?

For Chrissakes!

I dare say the author hasn't talked to Joe Soap Irish public..(Of course, he probably only talks on the phone to the bullshit artists of the Irish Times and the Dublin 4 effete elite).

Certainly there is anti-war opposition in Ireland, the same way as there is across Europe and in America.

BUT..American troops WILL land in Shannon (for as long as they want to)...because what is Ireland WITHOUT it's closest Allies (America and Britain?)

Bertie is not a fuggin idiot.

This article is a pre-St. Patrick's Day hit piece by the Sunday Times, IMHO.

[Happygal]

You *read* what the Irish were saying about you.

You OBVIOUSLY don't read the Irish Independent, or the Sunday Independent.

Should I add you to my Irish ping list?

You talk about spending money in Ireland, but haven't (a) bothered yer arse to come and see what the people on the ground think? (b) read the reputable newspapers.

Guess you should buy your horses in Texas, where the Dixie Chicks come from.

Jesus wept!

[Happygal]

You won't find Muslim culture too welcome in Catholic Ireland...believe me!!!

[Happygal]

There are still 'charities' in the US that channel money to build bombs for the IRA, just as there are those that fund Bin Laden and his brand of terror.

YOU think the Irish populice aren't pissed off at idiot Americans funding Sinn Fein?

HELL YES we are!!!

Not only that, but the Irish Republic population are revolted that Sinn Fein are trying to gain credibility by standing in every single election SOUTH of the border.

The GOOD, ordinary, decent people of Ireland have NO TIME for terrorists. Whether they are nationalists (Sinn Fein, Real IRA, etc)..or unionists (PUP, Red Hand Defenders et al). I am blessed to live in this beautiful country (aside from the horrible taxation)..and I will tell you NOW...not one person I know (and I know many) supports terrorism financial. I can't vouch for the bar-rooms of Boston, where people are more uninformed.

[Happygal]

Ireland has my admiration in one aspect: abortion is illegal in their country. Way ahead of us there.

And it will remain so. (Well, I can't see a change in the next 20 years)

Ireland, despite the Dublin 4 leftist media, remains a Catholic, conservative (at heart) country.

[Reaganwuzthebest]

You won't find Muslim culture too welcome in Catholic Ireland...believe me!!!

Hope not... one of these days I'm going to visit the old country and when I do it would sure be nice if it's still the old country.

[Happygal]

Well we don't sit around peat fires anymore.

But you will find an accommodating, (and even though they might think they are liberal, because they condone divorce), a conservative people.

We're progressive, certainly.

And idealistic...most probably.

But the family (always was) and remains the core of Irish society.

And we REMAIN a friendly, all-encompassing nation. Yeah, we got a lot of wealth with the Celtic Tiger, and became a very progressive nation. Now we have inflation at nearly 5%, so that changes the 'progressiveness'. But, I've yet to meet a visitor to my country to go away without feeling welcome, (loved, almost), and utterly at home.

[Tribune7]

That's true the Irish sat out WWII. On the other hand, they didn't fight against us or the British as the French did on numerous occasions.

The French arguably fought us harder than the Italians and certainly fought us harder than the Spanish -- both countries of which were considered Hitler's allies.

[meyer]

David Quinn: We’ll all pay a heavy price for poisoning America’s Irish stew

Good article! I have to admit that when I first read the headline about poisoning America's Irish stew, the first thing I thought of was Kennedy. He's the epitome of "poisoned Irish stew".

[meyer]

It was not an endorsement of Saddam. It was the equivalent of giving Stalin weapons with which to defeat Hitler. Stalin was awful, Hitler was worse, and when the second world war ended it was time to deal with Stalin. When the Iran-Iraq war ended, and Baghdad then turned its attentions to Kuwait, the time had come to deal with it.

Excellent passage which you have highlighted. That speaks volumes!

[Reaganwuzthebest]

And we REMAIN a friendly, all-encompassing nation.

And don't forget Happygal you're always welcome to come here as well. You can make a stop in Boston and set them straight, although that might be hopeless. Some of them in that town are to the left of Karl Marx.

[Happygal]

They'll be left of my right knuckle if they try to shove their 'plastic Paddy' down MY neck.

I'm not a violent woman. But NOTHING offends me more than people (a) assuming that the 2003 Irish nation are 1950's eejits. and (b) lording second and third Brian Boru bullshit ancestry down my neck.

YES!!! Many people from Ireland left the country and went to America and found a new life and fair play to them. And many more of our families stayed home, and (thanks to the American companies), stuck it out, and made the country very viable..and brilliant.

I love America. (I just hate the plastic Paddies who have funded the terrorists in NI..and they come from Boston in the main).

[Happygal]

BTW...I guess you have guessed, that I absolutely LOVE my country (Ireland).

I love FR the way it talks about Patriotism. I can't be patriotic to America, or England or the allies, because, I am, and will always be patriotic to Ireland. (I see that, as one of my strengths..my patriotism. My country needs, and deserves ME. I love her, and I would die for her.)But, my country is a democracy..and therefore I have the option to die for her, or not.

That's what I admire about so many people on FR..their individual patriotism. It's applaudable.

[AntiDemocrat]

Happygal, don't worry...not all the American Irish give money to the Provisional IRA or to Sinn Fein. I surely don't.

I agree with you - many in Boston & New York do give, and they don't understand that Sinn Fein(Provisional IRA) is trying to capture seats in the Republic - which will then help them to bring their form of marxism to the Irish Republic. That would be very bad.

Anyway, as I understand it, Ireland is supporting the US in the war on terrorism. That's good enough for me.

Irish Defence Forces

[Happygal]

You wouldn't believe how the kids are buying into Sinn Fein's Marxism.

I'm trying to stem the tide at EVERY opportunity.

[Reaganwuzthebest]

Happygal, don't worry...not all the American Irish give money to the Provisional IRA or to Sinn Fein. I surely don't.

Neither did I, or anyone in my family. It's more of a political thing the way I see it, the IRA is a leftist organization perceived as a cause for liberals in the US to support, like the Marxist guerillas in Latin America, although there is some ethnic mix to it that's true. But terrorism should not be supported no matter where it is.

[CARepubGal]

And a happy St Patricks day thought that is! Teddy is more like bad whiskey. :-)

[AntiDemocrat]

I believe it...in fact, didn't Sinn Fein capture a couple of seats not too long ago - in the Republic?

[meyer]

And a happy St Patricks day thought that is! Teddy is more like bad whiskey. :-)

Indeed! Teddy is a disgrace, one to be disowned by anybody of Irish decent. I've a bit of Irish in the blood myself, along with just about everything else. He sure embarasses me!

Happy St. Pat's to y'all, even if a day or two early.

[McGavin999]

Muslims have immigrated in waves to Europe before and each time were expelled when they became too numerous

Yes, but that was back when europeans had a backbone. Just listen to them today, do you really think there is enough testosterone left on the entire continent to stand up to the Islamists? I don't.

[MHGinTN]

My grandfather used to say, "The American tree of Liberty and pursuit of happiness has its roots in Irish stone." I think I'll dwell on that and let this hit piece be.

[McGavin999]

the first thing I thought of was Kennedy. He's the epitome of "poisoned Irish stew".

Shouldn't that be "stewed Irish"?

[McGavin999]

I'm certainly glad to hear that Happygal. I'm half Irish, half Scot, and All American. I have good friends who live in Ireland. It would break my heart if the Irish people became anti-American.

[Capriole]

Happygal, if I have made a mistake about the reactions of the Irish people, please educate me! Heavens, I don't want to believe that the land of my forebears (through a thin strain on my mother's side) is altogether arrayed against us! I have not only read of Irish opposition to America's actions but have heard the reports of my friends who went hunting there this winter, and it was dismaying. I only wonder, is it possible that all the Irish people oppose what the newspapers say? Can the papers survive economically if what they write doesn't reflect the views of the readers at all? I welcome your instruction on this because it's a grief to me, to think that Ireland too despises us.

[Reaganwuzthebest]

Just listen to them today, do you really think there is enough testosterone left on the entire continent to stand up to the Islamists?

No way, that's why it's going to be interesting when the Muslims become the majority in France and Scandinavia and other places. Those bleeding heart fools in Europe better learn how to pray to Allah because eventually they're not going to have a choice if they don't stop Muslim immigration now.

[Happygal]

I'm an Irish journalist.

I know what to tell people. And I know what buys and sells papers over here.

I am telling YOU...you are trigger happy, reactionary.

Read a bit, and test the waters before making the ideological *LEAP*.

(I actually doubt you are the big shot you profess to be on these threads...Most American business men, are FAR more discreet!)

[2Jedismom]

I don't mind giving up french wine (I'm a tea-totaller and can't afford it anyway).

I don't mind giving up belgian waffles...they just make me fat.

But there is NO WAY, no matter what they say or do, there is no way I'm giving up my Irish Pennywhistle.

[rugerman]

ME too, 2Jmom. I love Ireland passionately, it's people, history and music, but I am very disturbed by all I am hearing from there. I have a plane ticket for April 23 and was planning a 2 week trip there, same as last year, but I'm being warned by friends there that the anti American sentiment is strong. Last year when I was there I was stunned by the Euronews propaganda broadcasts regarding Israel. They'd give a 20 minute handwringing segment to poor Yassir Arafat's house detention, where he had plenty to eat and drink and was in no danger, then for two minutes give coverage that amounted to "oh, and there was another suicide bombing today, killing 20 Israelis, including four children, ho hum." I was apalled that anyone would fall for the blatant propanda, but then two of my friends joined a march through downtown Dublin protesting the way Arafat was being treated. They shouted "Free Y.A." and waved Palestinian flags, but there was no mention of stopping any of the suicide bombings. And now, according to my friends over there, Euronews has replaced Irael with America and they are all jumping on the bandwagon to the extent that there was dancing in the streets of Derry when the space shuttle blew up. I'm trying to decide whether or not to cancel my trip. I love Ireland, but the Irish are brainwashed now, as is all of Europe. Hitler's propaganda minister had nothing on the news-meisters over there right now.

[rugerman]

I take it you're not such a "happy gal"? Or that you were one of the ones dancing in the streets when the shuttle blew up? Or is it that you enjoy seeing tv news reports of dead Israeli babies?

[js1138]

The Irish are coated with teflon as far as most Americans are concerned, for psychological reasons

That's because more Americans are proud of Irish ancestry than proud of French Ancestry.