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Word is made flesh as God reveals himself... as a fish
The Observer (U.K.) ^ | 03/16/03 | Edward Helmore

Posted on 03/15/2003 5:11:19 PM PST by Pokey78

An obscure Jewish sect in New York has been gripped in awe by what it believes to be a mystical visitation by a 20lb carp that was heard shouting in Hebrew, in what many Jews worldwide are hailing as a modern miracle.

Many of the 7,000-member Skver sect of Hasidim in New Square, 30 miles north of Manhattan, believe God has revealed himself in fish form.

According to two fish-cutters at the New Square Fish Market, the carp was about to be slaughtered and made into gefilte fish for Sabbath dinner when it suddenly began shouting apocalyptic warnings in Hebrew.

Many believe the carp was channelling the troubled soul of a revered community elder who recently died; others say it was God. The only witnesses to the mystical show were Zalmen Rosen, a 57-year-old Hasid with 11 children, and his co-worker, Luis Nivelo. They say that on 28 January at 4pm they were about to club the carp on the head when it began yelling.

Nivelo, a Gentile who does not understand Hebrew, was so shocked at the sight of a fish talking in any language that he fell over. He ran into the front of the store screaming: 'It's the Devil! The Devil is here!' Then the shop owner heard it shouting warnings and commands too.

'It said "Tzaruch shemirah" and "Hasof bah",' he told the New York Times, 'which essentially means that everyone needs to account for themselves because the end is near.'

The animated carp commanded Rosen to pray and study the Torah. Rosen tried to kill the fish but injured himself. It was finally butchered by Nivelo and sold.

However, word spread far and wide and Nivelo complains he has been plagued by phone calls from as far away as London and Israel. The story has since been amplified by repetition and some now believe the fish's outburst was a warning about the dangers of the impending war in Iraq.

Some say they fear the born-again President Bush believes he is preparing the world for the Second Coming of Christ, and war in Iraq is just the opening salvo in the battle of Armageddon.

Local resident Abraham Spitz said: 'Two men do not dream the same dream. It is very rare that God reminds people he exists in this modern world. But when he does, you cannot ignore it.'

Others in New Square discount the apocalyptic reading altogether and suggest the notion of a talking fish is as fictional as Tony Soprano's talking-fish dream in an episode of The Sopranos .

Stand-up comedians have already incorporated the carp into their comedy routines at weddings. One gefilte company has considered changing it's slogan to: 'Our fish speaks for itself.'

Still, the shouting carp corresponds with the belief of some Hasidic sects that righteous people can be reincarnated as fish. They say that Nivelo may have been selected because he is not Jewish, but a weary Nivelo told the New York Times : 'I wish I never said anything about it. I'm getting so many calls every day, I've stopped answering. Israel, London, Miami, Brooklyn. They all want to hear about the talking fish.'

A devout Christian, he still thinks the carp was the Devil. 'I don't believe any of this Jewish stuff. But I heard that fish talk.'

He's grown tired of the whole thing. 'It's just a big headache for me,' he added. 'I pull my phone out of the wall at night. I don't sleep and I've lost weight.'


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Israel; News/Current Events; US: New York
KEYWORDS: afish; afishnamedbrian; calledgefilte; crevolist; hooklineandsinker
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To: doug from upland; Mudboy Slim
We may need a SONG here...
41 posted on 03/15/2003 6:34:58 PM PST by nutmeg (Liberate Iraq - Support Our Troops!)
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To: aculeus; Happygal; general_re; Pokey78
Just some feminist-Faulknerian cult -- "My capital-M Mother is a capital-F Fish."
42 posted on 03/15/2003 6:36:29 PM PST by dighton
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To: Jeff Chandler
This story has been floundering for months....

NeverGore
43 posted on 03/15/2003 6:47:54 PM PST by nevergore (Stupid is as stupid does....)
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To: Darheel
Well consider that many Christians eat God every Sunday in the form of a wafer.
44 posted on 03/15/2003 6:55:02 PM PST by garbanzo (Free people will set the course of history)
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To: garbanzo
excuse me, there is a problem with that?
45 posted on 03/15/2003 7:00:49 PM PST by nkycincinnatikid
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To: Pokey78
New Square? This is the town in which virtually every household is getting a federal government housing subsidy.

And this is the town that gave Hillary about 99% of their vote. And this is the town where Clinton commuted the sentences of four Hasadim who had defrauded the government.
46 posted on 03/15/2003 7:04:12 PM PST by jackbill
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To: Pokey78; dighton
It's not Crap..I mean Carp, that's SUSHI! ;-)
47 posted on 03/15/2003 7:05:00 PM PST by Happygal
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To: Pokey78
Slow news day?
48 posted on 03/15/2003 7:05:08 PM PST by woodyinscc
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To: Howlin; Ed_NYC; MonroeDNA; widgysoft; Springman; Timesink; dubyaismypresident; Grani; coug97; ...
"Hold muh beer 'n watch this!" PING....

If you want on or off this list, please let me know!

49 posted on 03/15/2003 7:06:46 PM PST by mhking (Fasten your seatbelts....We're goin' in!)
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To: Happygal

......

Pronounced "croppy" in polite society.

;-)

50 posted on 03/15/2003 7:09:26 PM PST by dighton
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To: Pokey78
God appears in their midst -- and they butcher Him.

Anyone else get a strange sense of deja vu?

51 posted on 03/15/2003 7:10:26 PM PST by TXnMA ((No Longer!!!))
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To: dighton
Is that ''The Crappy (oops, I mean, Croppy) Boy''?

How nice, on the eve of St. Patrick's Day! ;-)

52 posted on 03/15/2003 7:13:57 PM PST by Happygal
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To: TXnMA
No joke...I mean, you hate to be stereotypical, but God shows up in their midst, and rather thatn rush him down to their rabbi, they fillet him and put him on the menu. That God is valuable, you know.
53 posted on 03/15/2003 7:21:17 PM PST by way-right-of-center (I belong to no organized party. I am a Democrat.-- Will Rogers)
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To: Pokey78
Billy Bass with a beanie?
54 posted on 03/15/2003 7:23:33 PM PST by Diddle E. Squat
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To: Pokey78
Bah, its nothing really at all that unusual....

http://www.yoot.com/

Amid the desert heat of Egypt and the river waters of the Nile Delta, an American-led team begins the search for the elusive Seaman. Finding the legendary creature may lend clues and help raise the veil of mystery that has surrounded the Seaman for over 4,500 years.

Scientists soon hope to be able to study and research the Seaman in its natural habitat, a feat never before accomplished on such a major scale. The expedition team, led by renowned American explorer Andrew Resnick, will be building upon research initially done by Professor Jean Paul Gassé in the 1930’s. Gassé was the French scientist first credited with the discovery of the Seaman.

The key to the entire expedition will be to track down the Seaman’s natural habitat, which could cover various waterways and bodies along a 100-mile stretch of the Nile. No scientific eye within the modern world has recorded the life of the Seaman in the wild. Even Dr. Gassé’s research on the animal was done with eggs grown in captivity. The evolution of the Seaman holds many secrets and with theories linking the Seaman to ancient Egyptian civilization, the expedition team hopes to answer some of them.

55 posted on 03/15/2003 7:24:07 PM PST by machman
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To: tet68
Oh my, that reminds me of one of the all-time classic Freeper threads:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/633258/posts
56 posted on 03/15/2003 7:25:47 PM PST by Diddle E. Squat
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To: TXnMA
Does this mean that there will now be a Third Coming?
57 posted on 03/15/2003 7:26:54 PM PST by Diddle E. Squat
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To: TomGuy
John Cleese when asked to comment remarked, “You mean the fish called Wanda?”
58 posted on 03/15/2003 7:29:32 PM PST by Highway55
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To: Pokey78
More on the seaman.

Local legends in and around the Nile Delta Region tells of a mysterious animal called the Man of the Sea that spoke to humans and possessed great knowledge of the ancient world. Much of the legend and mythos surrounding the Seaman has to do with the fact that there is so little hard evidence on the creature. Even though one was bred in captivity and was on display in aquariums across Japan, it remains a mystery as to what the creature is or how it will evolve. Sightings of the creature are rare and interaction with one in the wild is even more so.

Many of the theories brought forth by Dr. Jean Paul Gassé (credited with the discovery of Seaman) and the Anthro-Bio Archaeology community help to support the legend and are still hotly debated today.

Much of the speculation surrounds Seaman’s connection to ancient Egypt. The greatest mystery of the ancient Egyptian civilization is the sudden appearance of an advanced society in the middle of the desert. Normally, intermediate steps can be observed in the development of any civilization. There have been, however, absolutely no such discoveries that could explain the development of ancient Egypt. Some people have even tried to tie the existence of these creatures to creatures from outer space. The reasoning behind their theory was that the ancient Egyptian civilization appeared suddenly, with unknown origins and was technologically advanced enough to build pyramids -- a feat of engineering that is challenging enough with modern equipment and technology.

Images of Seaman began appearing in ancient Egypt around 2600 B.C., after the ancient third dynasty, as wall paintings. The third dynasty is famous for being the beginning of the rush to build pyramids. Prior to that time, there is no record of the existence of Seaman, and after the later half of the third dynasty hardly any drawings of Seaman exist. There are, moreover, absolutely no records of how the pyramids were constructed.

Dr. Gassé hypothesized that because this creature could interact and speak with human beings, it served as a medium to transmit human knowledge. He came to believe that the knowledge necessary to construct the pyramids was somehow entrusted in Seaman, and then spread to other ancient civilizations as well. Considering all the conditions, Professor Gassé constructed the hypothesis that a living creature (i.e. Seaman) could take the knowledge that existed during the third dynasty, and cross oceans to spread the knowledge to other lands. Gassé even started to believe that the creatures spread knowledge to other civilizations that propagated and flourished. Moreover, he felt that it was through Seaman that ancient Egyptian mathematics were transmitted.

A rare underwater photo...

59 posted on 03/15/2003 7:30:41 PM PST by machman
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To: machman


60 posted on 03/15/2003 7:35:04 PM PST by Diddle E. Squat
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