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PUERTO RICO: ABC Report Highly Critical of Anti-Navy Protesters (Did ABC finally get one right?)
The San Juan Star | Tuesday, March 18, 2003 | ROBERT FRIEDMAN

Posted on 03/29/2003 12:31:28 PM PST by 4Freedom

Those who protested the Navy exercises on Vieques "want bombs to stop falling from the sky, but they want money to keep falling" to Puerto Rico.

That more or less was the gist of a critical report, aired Friday night over ABC to millions of stateside viewers, of efforts to keep Roosevelt Roads Naval Station open after the Navy ends exercises on Vieques on May 1.

The report, featured on the 20/20 news show by commentator John Stossel, suggested that keeping Roosevelt Roads open after the Navy leaves Vieques was "a waste of taxpayer money."

Stossel, who usually hosts a segment entitled "Give Me a Break," which spotlights excessive federal spending, noted that Adm. Robert Natter, head of the Atlantic Fleet, said he did not need Roosevelt Roads anymore.

The 20/20 commentator noted that the base contributes $300 million a year to the local economy, and its possible closing has upset the politicians who protested the use of Vieques by the Navy.

"It's as if some of the protesters want bombs to stop falling from the sky, but they want money to keep falling," said Stossel.

U.S. Rep. Jose Serrano, D-N.Y. was quoted on the report saying the Navy wants to close the base to punish the protesters.

"[The Navy] says, 'We'll fix you. We're getting out. And we're taking everything,'" Stossel quoted Serrano as telling him.

Serrano said it was up to Congress to decide on whether the base closes, and with the presidential election coming up and everyone courting Latino votes, he predicted that the Navy will stay put.

"When the president realizes that it's getting close to 2004, and this becomes another Latino political issue again, he's gonna tell them, you don't have to go. And they won't go," Serrano was quoted as saying.

Stossel ends the segment by saying: "He [Serrano] may be right. With votes at stake, politicians may spend millions on a base the Navy doesn't even want. Give me a break!"

Many e-mails to the show's Web site opined on the matter. One from doradodown said: "I agree with Adm. Natter. It really burns me to hear the arrogance of people like Serrano who so smugly declare that politicians whoring for votes will back his sentiments. If Puerto Ricans want their independence, I say, great! Give it to them."

According to DatonaBikerBabe: "I think Congress and the president should unilaterally grant Puerto Rico independence as well - with zero foreign aid. They don't want to be American. They want to be independent, with government aid."

But hectormaria had a different take on the issue.

Noting that base closings always stir up out-cries from residents of the surrounding areas because of the economic impact, the writer said that in the case of Vieques "problems created outweighed the economic advantages, therefore they wanted the bombing practice to end."

The writer agreed with Serrano that the Navy was trying to punish all Puerto Ricans "for daring to ask them for the closing" of the Vieques target area.

"Thousands of Puerto Ricans have died protecting those rights you and the Navy so cavalierly want to deny fellow American citizens. Your report simply smacks of 'yellow journalism,'" said hectormaria.


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: abc; antiamerican; antinavy; corruption; drugsmugglers; extortionists; ingrtes; marxists; panderers; puertorico; terrorists
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"Thousands of Puerto Ricans have died protecting those rights you and the Navy so cavalierly want to deny fellow American citizens."

This is the same stupid argument I keep hearing over and over. It galls me.

Thousands of Germans, Irish, Czechs, Poles, British, Italians, Greeks, French and men and women from almost every country on earth have died in combat wearing the uniform of the United States military.

Why do we owe Puerto Rico $18.8 billion dollars plus in hand-outs, each year, that we don't give any other country whose immigrants to the USA died in the service of our country?

Puerto Rico and the rest of the free world owe the United States.

1 posted on 03/29/2003 12:31:28 PM PST by 4Freedom
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To: 4Freedom
John Stossel is the only one at ABC who ever gets it right.
2 posted on 03/29/2003 12:33:18 PM PST by Dog Gone
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To: 4Freedom
That's only because John Stossel was the reporter, the only conservative reporter that I know in th alpabet networks.
3 posted on 03/29/2003 12:33:41 PM PST by Semper Paratus
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To: Semper Paratus; Dog Gone
Have the Puerto Ricans started a 'John Stossel is a racist' smear campaign, yet.

Have they started calling for Stossel's resignation?

4 posted on 03/29/2003 12:40:32 PM PST by 4Freedom (America is no longer the 'Land of Opportunity', it's the 'Land of Illegal Alien Opportunists'!!!)
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To: 4Freedom
Si senior.

It is time for the Navy to vacate Puerto Rico. Then maybe next time the average PR will think twice before letting leftwing island commies set the agenda.
5 posted on 03/29/2003 12:47:39 PM PST by Zorrito
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To: 4Freedom
Vieques
6 posted on 03/29/2003 12:53:55 PM PST by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: Zorrito
It is not only time for the Navy to vacate Puerto Rico, but after a century of wasted effort it is time for the United States to cut the silver cord, dump the Commonwealth, and let the Islanders go their own way.
7 posted on 03/29/2003 12:58:38 PM PST by gaspar
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To: 4Freedom
Maybe because Puerto Rico is not a separate country looking for a hand-out. It's property the U.S. took ownership of after the Spanish American War, and therefore its well-being is as much a responsibility of the U.S. as is any of the 50 states. Now personally I couldn't care less if they keep a base open or closed, and after all the protests over Vieques I say this should've been expected.

But please don't paint all of us Puerto Ricans with the same brush, especially since so many Puerto Ricans are conservative Republicans like myself. Puerto Ricans have voted on the issue of independence time and again, and the status quo has always won out. So please don't assume that because some Puerto Ricans are complaining about one issue that all Puerto Ricans want to be separated from the U.S. There are just as many people demanding statehood as demanding independence.

And yes, many Puerto Ricans have died fighting for the U.S. (including one of my great-uncles who was killed in Germany in WWII) and their families are quite proud to say so. In fact, nearly every male relative I have has served in the military. Those other nationalities you mentioned put on our uniform because they LEFT their countries. Puerto Ricans fight because we're part of this country and proud. We're not immigrants, we're citizens. Therefore, money given to PR is NOT foreign aid "hand-outs" going to another country! It's money given to Americans.
8 posted on 03/29/2003 1:01:03 PM PST by tiredoflurking
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To: tiredoflurking
Glad to hear the citizens of PR have some common sense. But what about the idiots who thought that closing the missile range wouldn't also mean closing the base? What on God's green earth do they use for brains? It's astounding!
9 posted on 03/29/2003 1:15:25 PM PST by chiller (could be wrong, but doubt it)
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To: tiredoflurking
But please don't paint all of us Puerto Ricans with the same brush, especially since so many Puerto Ricans are conservative Republicans like myself.

True. The problem is the island is split into nearly identical size factions, and the left wing is really very radical--Castro radical. Puerto Ricans who consider themselves Americans are plentiful, but they get no airplay.

Branding all Puerto Ricans as leftists is like characterizing all Americans on the basis of what happens between San Francisco and Seatlle, or East of the Hudson River. Although you must admit the lefties are a far larger proportion of the population than in the continental US.

How do you propose increasing the visibility of pro US Puerto Ricans?

10 posted on 03/29/2003 1:22:13 PM PST by FredZarguna
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To: chiller
I don't know what they were thinking. Frankly I'm no expert on the subject of Vieques, but it always seemed odd that they were demanding the military leave since that land was bought and paid for by the U.S. Navy. Seems to me the Navy had the right to do what it wanted on its own property.
11 posted on 03/29/2003 1:26:38 PM PST by tiredoflurking
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To: FredZarguna
That's a very good question. I wish I had a good answer. You have to remember that being a Hispanic conservative in this country is like being a female conservative. The Democrats assume you're their property and make you feel like a traitor. Then when you turn to the Republican community you have to face comments like those above, making you feel like you don't belong there either. So you vote your conscience and leave the political discussions to other people (unless you're like me and find it hard to keep your mouth shut).
12 posted on 03/29/2003 1:31:15 PM PST by tiredoflurking
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To: All
I was stationed at Roosevelt Roads for two years.

It is the world's largest U.S. Naval Station.

It was built partially to house the British Royal Family in the event of they're having to flee England in WWII.

It employs many Puerto Rican citizens.

The Officer's Club is the "Casa Coqui". Home of the "Rat Bat".

13 posted on 03/29/2003 1:35:10 PM PST by battlegearboat (Better Bunkering Through Ballistics Magazine, Spring '03 issue)
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To: 4Freedom
Puerto Rico and the rest of the free world owe the United States.

There are two opposing perspectives regarding Puerto Rico's status:

  1. An island that was unjustly seized and occupied by the United States as booty of the Spanish-American war, and whose citizenry have been unfairly exploited ever since, owing nothing to America.
  2. An island that was liberated from Spanish colonial rule by the United States and is a legitimate U.S. territory. As such, the citizens of Puerto Rico are also U.S. citizens and have contributed both admirably and significantly to the defence of our nation.

I happen to hold that the second perspective is proper. But even the first perspective, with which I personally disagree, shows what an ignorant and illigitimate arguement you present. Your incessant anti-Puerto Rican diatribes are the product of an irredeemably twisted and bigotted mind.

14 posted on 03/29/2003 1:40:40 PM PST by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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To: tiredoflurking
I worked on Roosevelt Roads for 3 years and just left recently. The departure of the Navy will have a very negative effect on the economy of Ceiba and Fajardo (closeby towns) along with the rest of the island to a certain extent. This saddens me as I made quite a few friends while living there and cruising the island. However, there is some good that might come out of this IMO. One must remember that the present (liberal) governer, Sila Calderon was very vocal about "no mas bombas on Vieques". Therefore, I believe that in the next PR elections we will see Sila and her gang ousted and replaced by folks that are much more conservative. This, I believe will be a step in the right direction to solving many of the problems inherent to the island present day.
To the Puerto Ricans that might read this, make sure you remember all the politicians, actors, activists and other knuckleheads that were responsible for the civil unrest that led to the closing of Vieques. Vote accordingly.

Sure wish I was in Guavate chowing on some lechon this afternoon.....
no' vemo',
Sako
15 posted on 03/29/2003 1:44:07 PM PST by SakoL61R (No mas bombas=no mas $$$=C Ya Sila!)
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To: tiredoflurking
You have to remember that being a Hispanic conservative in this country is like being a female conservative.

First, reject the label. Calling yourself Hispanic is like calling yourself an "English speaker". It's meaningful only to people who want to foster identity politics so they can ignore individuals. I have relatives from Puerto Rico, and relatives from Mexico. They acknowledge that they have very little in common.

Then when you turn to the Republican community you have to face comments like those above, making you feel like you don't belong there either.

There are nativists and xenophobes of both persuasions. I think the major distinction is that racism or group identity politics is an accidental characteristic of some conservatives, whereas it is an actual policy of the left. The liberals mask theirs with condescension. You belong where the truth is.

Three of the most powerful people in the country are black, and they are Republicans. There is no black figure of any real power in the supposedly "tolerant" party. The first Hispanic on the US Supreme court will be Republican--if the Democrats don't block him. I'll let you judge where the really bigotted people are for yourself--on the basis of what they do.

16 posted on 03/29/2003 1:49:58 PM PST by FredZarguna
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To: tiredoflurking
The United States doesn't own Puerto Rico. The United States Taxpayers own the property our bases are on, but Puerto Rico is an unincorporated territory that could unilaterally declare its independence or be given its independence unilaterally by the U.S. Congress at any time.

Puerto Rico is way closer to being an independent country than it is to being a state.

I believe that the $18.8 billion plus in U.S. Taxpayer's hand-outs to the ingrates in Puerto rico should be stopped immediately.

hand-out: 1. CHARITABLE GIFT something such as money or food given as charity to somebody in need.

Encarta World English Dictionary 1999

Puerto Rico has never given the USA anything of equal value in return for all the $100's of billions in charitable hand-outs we've lavished on the residents of the island.

Never more than 46.49% of the residents of Puerto Rico have ever voted for statehood even when as many as 75% of them were collecting Food Stamps and they accounted for 10% of all of the Food Stamps dispenced by the U.S. Taxpayers.

Here's a brief History of all of the murder and mayhem committed by Puerto Rican Terrorists since 1936.

Puerto Rico National History

Here's some of the low-lites:

1950 - Puerto Rican terrorists tried to assassinate former President Harry S. Truman in Washington.

1954 - PR terrorists opened fire in the U.S. House of Representatives wounding 5 Congressmen.

1975 - PR terrorists killed 4 and wounded 50 with a bomb in a restaurant in NYC.

1981 - PR terrorists blew up 11 jet fighters belonging to the Puerto Rico National Guard near San Juan.

1981 - PR terrorists killed one man with a bomb in the Kennedy Airport.

? - PR terrorists machine gun a group of American servicemen standing at a bus stop killing one.

2001 - 4 PR terrorists hurl Molotov Cocktails at a Naval convoy on Vieques.

Over the years, Puerto Rican terrorists have planted over 130 bombs across the United States.

Who in their right mind would be for making a state out of an island like that?

17 posted on 03/29/2003 2:22:41 PM PST by 4Freedom (America is no longer the 'Land of Opportunity', it's the 'Land of Illegal Alien Opportunists'!!!)
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To: FredZarguna
Oh, I have no problem calling myself Hispanic (though my parents never taught me the language) or Latino or whatever the newest term is. Some of my relatives have a hang-up about that, but I just don't care. To me it just means I am of Spanish descent, and I don't mind other people knowing that. If I rejected all labels, than I would not call myself a woman, a Republican, or even an American. Some labels you can be proud to wear.

I think it's not so much the labeling that's objectionable. It's the spirit in which it's done. Like if I'm having a conversation about my family background and the topic of my ethnicity comes up, no problem. But when total strangers come up to me and ask "What are you?" as if they have a right to know, that gets annoying.

Trust me, I've noticed the left-wing tendency to point out everyone's race and count up the numbers. It comes from that attitude of "If you're a minority we own you." I know there are probably plenty of sexist bigots on the right, but at least you know where you stand with them. They don't hide it behind a phony, condescending smile.
18 posted on 03/29/2003 2:33:10 PM PST by tiredoflurking
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To: 4Freedom
Good Lord! Are you really telling me that Puerto Rico is worthless because a few of its millions of people have been terrorists? I can't imagine how much time it would take to document each and every act of murder committed by people born in the States, but I certainly don't view any of the states as worthless. If you looked at a list documenting every act of murder, rape, and child molestation committed by Americans born in the States you'd have to also ask "Who in their right mind would be for living in a country like that?"

For crying out loud. Is this the attitude you have about Iraq as well? Let's just leave that country in the hands of Saddam since after all there have been some terrorist attacks carried out by Iraqis, and there are a lot of poor people there that are going to need hand-outs. Why waste money feeding them, and why waste American blood liberating them? It's a waste of time for a worthless endeavor, right? Oh, wait. That would leave that pesky WMD problem. I know, we'll just bomb the entire country, civilians and all. If some of them are terrorists, the whole country must be rotten to the core.

I'm asking you for the last time (because I don't intend to respond to you again) to please stop lumping us all into one group. I can only imagine how you must feel about the black community.

At least with current events as they are, now all Americans are beginning to get a taste of what it's like to be looked down on by people who don't even know you. Maybe a lesson will be learned.
19 posted on 03/29/2003 2:54:38 PM PST by tiredoflurking
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To: tiredoflurking
If I rejected all labels, than I would not call myself a woman, a Republican, or even an American. Some labels you can be proud to wear.

Sorry mate, these are not labels. These are facts. If you are a post-puberty female, you are a woman. If you are registered to the republican party, you are a republican. If you are a US citizen, you are an American.

Contrast that with "labels" such as being a racist, a homophobe or a right wing conspirator. They are subjective terms, loosely defined and often mis-used to make pejorative points.

20 posted on 03/29/2003 2:55:07 PM PST by Go Gordon
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To: Go Gordon
Ah, but I am also of Spanish descent. That's a fact, no? My ancestors came from Spain and settled in Puerto Rico, mixing it up with the native Tainos. Nothing subjective there.
21 posted on 03/29/2003 2:58:52 PM PST by tiredoflurking
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To: tiredoflurking
Spent a month on the south side of the island last summer, working. Loved it. Would like to move there, if it became possible.

I notice a difference in the attitudes of some mainlanders towards Puerto Rico; as Fred says there is something of a xenophobic tendency that blinds some people. When I hear some of them describe the island, I find it impossible to believe we are talking about the same place. Of course, I lived in various places in Latin America over the years, and so it is very likely that I see it with different eyes. But the place is beautiful, and the people I worked with there were very first rate, very serious about their work, and I liked them. The place is modern, the infrastructure is "first-world". It is a better place to raise kids than most places I have been.

The independence movement is a tiny minority, mostly academics and students, who are about as leftist as their mainlander colleagues. The "Republicans" on the island typically want statehood, the "Democrats" want territory status. The independentistas can only get a hearing by lying to themselves, I have heard them say that it would be possible to retain US citizenship after independence, which should tell anyone how serious they are. No one has any intention of giving up their citizenship, not even the independentistas.

For the folks that want to "cut them loose", dream on. They are US citizens. They are not leaving. You can't make them leave. If you think too much federal money goes there, fine, do something about it. You will probably find that there is a reason behind every dollar.
22 posted on 03/29/2003 3:10:40 PM PST by marron
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To: tiredoflurking
The real deal is Puerto Rico gets tons more Federal welfare money of all kinds than it contributes in taxes. Among the most of any state/territory. Yet at the same time Puerto Rico wanted the Navy to get rid of a very valuable bombing range and asset at Vieques. You are US citizens yet you try to hobble our military.

It's outrageous. Gimme gimme gimme and then you evict the US Navy. Where is the gratitude? My guess is your island would go communist if we cut off the welfare and we don't want another Fidel Castro or Hugo Chavez.
23 posted on 03/29/2003 3:18:18 PM PST by dennisw
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To: marron
"You will probably find that there is a reason behind every dollar."

Yeah, just like Congressman Serrano says, votes for spineless, pandering politicians.

24 posted on 03/29/2003 3:28:36 PM PST by 4Freedom (America is no longer the 'Land of Opportunity', it's the 'Land of Illegal Alien Opportunists'!!!)
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To: Willie Green; marron
What a crock.

The people of the Dominican Republic, Haiti, Jamaica and the rest of the caribbean (most of whom the residents of Puerto Rico hate) wish they could have been unfairly exploited by being given $100's of billions in U.S. Taxpayer handouts over the last 10 decades.

Ask marron, he's seen what the Taxpayers of the United States have lavished on Puerto Rico.

We have states that need that help. The sooner Puerto Rico is given its independence the better for the U.S. Taxpayers and their families.

25 posted on 03/29/2003 3:36:27 PM PST by 4Freedom (America is no longer the 'Land of Opportunity', it's the 'Land of Illegal Alien Opportunists'!!!)
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To: dennisw; tiredoflurking
Careful with the "you"; "tiredoflurking" is a Republican.

Actually, most of the activists causing trouble at Vieques were leftist mainlanders, not Puerto Ricans. The Puerto Ricans work there, and depend on it for their living. But there are a lot of mainlanders that are turning Vieques into their own private domain, and they tend to be leftists.

And, then there are the leftists and academics on the island, who are as pro-military as any academic anywhere in the US. You have to realize, you are dealing with the same ilk there as here. The left hates the US. Doesn't matter if they are mainlanders or islanders, or Euros or Egyptians.

The governor is, basically, a Democrat. She tried to find some kind of a compromise to satisfy the left, but in the end, she tilted left. Why? She's a Democrat. She is playing to the left, while trying to hang on to the jobs that go with the base. Does that sound irrational? Hypocritical? Of course. She's a Democrat.

The break-down on the island between Repubs and Demos is about the same as on the mainland, and the non-Democrat hardcore left is a distinct minority. Which means that there, like here, if you are a Repub, you have your work cut out for you. My position is you don't back down to the left there, or here, or anywhere. Any small victory only encourages them.
26 posted on 03/29/2003 3:38:16 PM PST by marron
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To: marron
Bottom line: Puerto Rico kicked the US Navy out of Vieques. The Puerto Rican people who were partiotic enough to want to keep Vieques were not strong enough to negate the malcontents.

Real kick in the a$$ is Puerto Rico did this during our war on terror.
27 posted on 03/29/2003 3:49:09 PM PST by dennisw
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To: tiredoflurking
Ah, but I am also of Spanish descent. That's a fact, no? My ancestors came from Spain and settled in Puerto Rico, mixing it up with the native Tainos. Nothing subjective there.

It depends. If you were born here in the US, you are an American. If your ancestors were born in Spain, they would be Spanish. Ergo, you would be an American of Spanish decent.

28 posted on 03/29/2003 3:50:56 PM PST by Go Gordon
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To: 4Freedom
Yeah, just like Congressman Serrano says, votes for spineless, pandering politicians.

Since islanders don't vote in mainland elections, what votes?

One New York congressman isn't going to have the stroke to get $18 billion in subsidies for his own district, let alone a district that doesn't vote.

I'm interested in the subject, so I'm not merely being combative here. I see that there is federal money there, all of the federal institutions have a presence there, from the post office, to the Coast Guard, to the FBI and Justice departments.

Welfare is probably an issue, but welfare reform has put everyone on a 5 year limit. This is a problem that should be correcting itself there as well as in mainland cities.

And, frankly, my impression is that work is available for people that want it. Maybe I'm comparing it with Latin America, but the place is prosperous. Wages are about 2/3 what they are on the mainland, but compared to the rest of Latin America, that is fantastic.

Most of the people I worked with had been to the Dominican Republic on projects, and some had ties to Venezuela, and all of them knew what life is like outside the US. All of them appreciated their citizenship in ways that the typical mainland leftist never will.

As I have mentioned, you are fighting the same battle in Puerto Rico that you fight everywhere. You have 45% Democrats, 45% Republicans, and 10% leftists. Which means that you have folks who get it, folks who sort of get it some of the time, and a few who will never get it, and will try to seize control of the 90% if you let them. The biggest push for island independence is the left, and not just the island left, but the mainland left, the same folks we fight on every other issue.

If our $18 billion is mis-spent, then lets identify which dollars are mis-spent, and work on doing something about it. Our congressmen outnumber Puerto Rico's congressmen, since they have "none". Maybe one guy in NYC that panders to them, as you say. But I suspect we will find dollars having to do with normal federal efforts that no one intends to curtail.

29 posted on 03/29/2003 3:55:27 PM PST by marron
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To: tiredoflurking
Puerto Rican were drafted and served with distinction and honor in Viet Nam ....you are so right--we shouldn't lump all the wonderful people there with the independistas.
30 posted on 03/29/2003 3:57:40 PM PST by chgomac
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To: tiredoflurking; Willie Green
Puerto Rico is inhabited by people that are predominantly Leftist/Socialist. There are no true fiscal/social conservative politicians on the island.

If Puerto Rico was given statehood, they would immediately send 2 more Liberal Senators and 4 to 6 Liberal Representatives to the U.S. Congress that would make Congressman Serrano and Hillary Clinton look conservative in comparison.

Medicine is already socialized in Puerto Rico. Former Gov. Pedro Rosello snuck his Rosello Plan through while the U.S. Taxpayers were distracted by Hillary's shenanigans. The Plan is bankrupt and guess who has to bail it out?

Statehood would also see Puerto Rico receive another $3 billion in social program payments.

Most of the population declares so little income that not only would they not pay any federal income taxes, but they'd probably all get an additional, big, fat, Income Tax Credit check from the U.S. Taxpayers. Wouldn't that be a kick in the teeth?

The residents of the island of Puerto Rico will never be anything but a huge drain on the U.S. Taxpayers. $10's of billions each year, huge.

If you're as conservative as you say you are, statehood for Puerto Rico should be the last thing you would want.

And yes, just as Puerto Rico would make a lousy state, I believe Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Bosnia, etc. would all make lousy states. ;^)

31 posted on 03/29/2003 3:59:05 PM PST by 4Freedom (America is no longer the 'Land of Opportunity', it's the 'Land of Illegal Alien Opportunists'!!!)
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To: dennisw
I haven't tried to hobble anything. You don't even know me!

The reason Puerto Ricans (those on the island) aren't contributing much in taxes is that they don't have representation in the government. No taxation without representation, remember? Even Pres. Bush said he wouldn't support taxing PR under its current status, but he would support statehood if they wanted it. Those on the island can't vote for President or have voting members in Congress or the Senate. Therefore they are not taxed on their earnings. If you want to get money from PR, it would have to be made a state. There are plenty of wealthy Puerto Ricans. The island was quite impoverished 100 years ago, but it's a new day.

In '98 only 2% of the people voted for independence (this is what the terrorists support). It doesn't really matter because we don't limit ourselves to the island. I hate to break it to you, but we do live all over this great country now. Just try getting rid of us, although I don't know why you'd want to lose all those votes. As I said, there are a lot of conservatives from PR.

P.S. I've never said "gimme gimme" to anybody, and how dare you suggest Puerto Rico would "go communist." I'm beginning to think I registered for this website way too quickly. I was wrong. A Democrat isn't any worse than an ignorant bigot.
32 posted on 03/29/2003 3:59:45 PM PST by tiredoflurking
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To: dennisw
Puerto Rico kicked the US Navy out of Vieques

Go back and look at press reports. You will see mainland leftists in the fore front, including celebs going down to get themselves arrested for the cameras. Not Puerto Ricans.

Bush's people made the decision to back down rather than deal with it right now. But I agree with their threat to close Roosevelt. This is Puerto Rico's chance to get on the right side of it. Either reverse course, elect a new governor, or lose the base. The left won't care, but they aren't the ones we are trying to reach.

33 posted on 03/29/2003 4:02:42 PM PST by marron
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To: tiredoflurking
Stick around. These guys need to remember that it was the leftists who pulled off the Vieques caper and now the Island will suffer. Wasn't it a holy pilgrimage of Revs Jackson & Sharpton that really stired this up?
34 posted on 03/29/2003 4:08:49 PM PST by chgomac
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To: tiredoflurking
Don't take what I say personally. I am simply stating that one way or another the US Navy was run out of Vieques. I'm pissed and so are many other Americans. You can blame it on all the PR commies and leftists you want. Where were the other Puerto Ricans to stand up for keeping Vieques?

I'm finished. You have the last word if you want.
35 posted on 03/29/2003 4:15:05 PM PST by dennisw
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To: marron; Willie Green
There are no truly conservative politicians in Puerto Rico. They're all more Liberal than Congressman Jose Serrano.

The Republicans are just as much for throwing the Navy off Vieques as the other parties. It was the RINO Rosello that went over to Clinton's campaign and supported his re-election (getting out the Puerto Rican vote stateside) in return for an agreement for the Navy to leave Vieques among other things.

It was the RINO Rosello that socialized medicine in Puerto Rico, not the Democrats.

Re-read what Serrano says about the stateside Puerto Rican vote. It went solidly Democrat and almost cost Bush the election.

You're kidding yourself if you believe the stateside Puerto Rican vote isn't a factor in all of the PORK/LECHON our pandering politicians lavish on the island.

The campaign contributions from the island are a factor as well. The largest single campaign contribution to Clinton's re-election campaign was $250,000 from the owner of a Medicare recipient dependent hospital in Puerto Rico.

Almost the day after Clinton was re-elected, Medicare funds were increased to the island.

Jeb Bush picked up $150,000 the last time he was there.

Then the Bushes say bye-bye to Vieques.

You have to learn how this pandering to special interest groups by our stateside politicians works.

36 posted on 03/29/2003 4:23:45 PM PST by 4Freedom (America is no longer the 'Land of Opportunity', it's the 'Land of Illegal Alien Opportunists'!!!)
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To: tiredoflurking
I am puertorrican too and agree with you in all you say except one thing. You said:
"There are just as many people demanding statehood as demanding independence."

Truth is there are (and always have been) more puertorricans that want the statehood than those tha ask for independence. The sector for independence HAVE NEVER BEEN a majority . Election after election, they have been in the minority. When special elections have been call to settled the matter, time after time tha majority of puertorricans have voted to remain part of the USA. My father served in the army all his life from 18 years to retirement. We are as americans as any native of the states because there is no such thing as puertorrican citizenship. We are born americans citizens.

Right now, here in the states from coast to coast, we are having the hippies peaceniks on the streets with their nonsense all around, that does not make every american a peacenik Does it? Well this is the same thing. There are morons everywhere.

37 posted on 03/29/2003 4:28:27 PM PST by Minty
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To: 4Freedom
I guess youhave your mind made up and nothing that can be discussed with you willpenetrate your mind set. But in the same way that there have been terrorist oin PR the stated had to endure the Black Panthers, and what was that group that kidnaped Patricia Hearts and so on. I tell you moronic behavior cross cultures and frontiers. But I guess that when you need to feel superior putting others down then it won't matter the arguments. The matter have been set for you long time ago and it has very little to do with reasoning.
38 posted on 03/29/2003 4:39:43 PM PST by Minty
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To: marron
Thank you!
39 posted on 03/29/2003 4:41:58 PM PST by Minty
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To: Minty
You're right, Minty. I corrected that statement up above after I looked up the results of the most recent vote. My father also served in both the Marines and the Air Force.

As to a comment made elsewhere about a conservative supporting statehood: while I have no strong preference on the matter, my grandfather is a perfect example of a staunch conservative who strongly supports statehood. Why? Because he happens to love this country and everything it stands for and would like to see PR become a full-fledged active part of it. I can think of one large piece of southern territory that didn't always feel that way but still enjoys statehood now.
40 posted on 03/29/2003 4:42:44 PM PST by tiredoflurking
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To: tiredoflurking; dennisw; marron; Willie Green
If you were as conservative as you claim to be, statehood for an ultra-Liberal Puerto Rico would be the last thing you'd want.

What conservative would want to make a state out of an island that would be a permanent drain of $10's of billions of U.S. Taxpayer's dollars and turn our Congress hopelessly LIBERAL for all eternity?

Only a RINO would be for statehood for Puerto Rico.

41 posted on 03/29/2003 4:46:51 PM PST by 4Freedom (America is no longer the 'Land of Opportunity', it's the 'Land of Illegal Alien Opportunists'!!!)
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To: Minty
I guess youhave your mind made up and nothing that can be discussed with you willpenetrate your mind set.

I think you're absolutely correct, Minty.
IMHO, "4Freedom" isn't even the "conservative" he claims to be.
Based on his flagrant lack of recognition of the overwhelming contribution Puerto Ricans have made in our Armed Services, he couldn't possibly be a conservative. My guess is that he's actually a liberal, posing as a "conservative" to promote his hateful and divisive agenda.

42 posted on 03/29/2003 4:52:07 PM PST by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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To: tiredoflurking; Minty; Willie Green; marron; dennisw
Statehood for Puerto Rico will cost the U.S. Taxpayers at least $30 billion dollars each year and make our Congress hopelessly Liberal for all eternity.

I'm sorry, but the price tag for making Puerto Rico feel good about itself is just way too dam high.

43 posted on 03/29/2003 4:53:15 PM PST by 4Freedom (America is no longer the 'Land of Opportunity', it's the 'Land of Illegal Alien Opportunists'!!!)
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To: tiredoflurking
I want statehood too. My family have been pro-statehood generation after generation since the American entered the island.

About 10 years ago an uncle I had died who used to be alive when the Americans entered the island. He used to tell us about the abuses at the hands of the Spanish guards. He was black and married my aunt who could not be more white unless she would turn albino.

He was the most republican of us all. In a way he was a father figure to us, a man of honor and strenght who had only one word and always stood by it and he influenced all of our lives with his example. In a way we stand worlds apart but in truth it is all the same. When I add and substract I still find his mindset in the midst of my heart and I agree with him, America is a great country! Even with all its internal conflicts and contradictions, America is the remains the greatest country of this world. He used to say; "los americanos son la changa maximina" which meant that nobody could outwit the American ingeniosity. His lifelong dream was to see the island become a state. He passed that unto us.

America is my country, I am proud to be american but most of all I LOVE this country with all my heart.
44 posted on 03/29/2003 5:00:12 PM PST by Minty
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To: Willie Green; tiredoflurking; Minty; marron; dennisw
Why does the "contribution Puerto Ricans have made in our armed services" entitle the residents of the island to potentially leech $30 billion in U.S. Taxpayer's dollars each year and turn our Congress into a hopelessly LIBERAL nightmare by becoming a state, Willie?

What kind of a conservative would be for that?

45 posted on 03/29/2003 5:00:38 PM PST by 4Freedom (America is no longer the 'Land of Opportunity', it's the 'Land of Illegal Alien Opportunists'!!!)
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To: Willie Green
After reading him,(and even though I do not know him), seem to me you are telling the truth. Thanks, Willie!
46 posted on 03/29/2003 5:03:25 PM PST by Minty
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To: Minty; tiredoflurking; Willie Green; marron; dennisw
That's a great story about your grandfather, Minty. You said he was good at Math.

How many states do you think he would calculate that the hard-working Taxpayers of the United States could afford to support that drain our treasury of $20 to $30 billion dollars each and every year?

47 posted on 03/29/2003 5:07:46 PM PST by 4Freedom (America is no longer the 'Land of Opportunity', it's the 'Land of Illegal Alien Opportunists'!!!)
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To: 4Freedom
4Freedom go watch Foxnews.
48 posted on 03/29/2003 5:11:34 PM PST by Minty
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To: Minty; Willie Green; tiredoflurking
No, keep reading Minty. You'll eventually see that all Willie is good at is name-calling and personal attacks.

Willie wouldn't know a fact, if it bit him in his RINO shorts.

Look at all of the questions I've asked him that he doesn't have any answers for. Willie's a Liberal RINO. I'd say that goes double for tiredoflurking.

49 posted on 03/29/2003 5:17:43 PM PST by 4Freedom (America is no longer the 'Land of Opportunity', it's the 'Land of Illegal Alien Opportunists'!!!)
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To: Minty; tiredoflurking; Willie Green
Truth is there are (and always have been) more puertorricans that want the statehood than those tha ask for independence.

The primary political split in Puerto Rico is not between the independentistas, who are negligible, but between those that want statehood and those that want to continue as a territory.

The ones that want to remain a territory are looking for a kind of autonomy, under the US flag, that most states would have if the 9th and 10th ammendments were honored. As I said, independence is no more an issue there than it is in Texas. People talk about it over a beer, because its fun to rail against Washington. But the real Texas independence crowd is a handful of nutjobs that no one listens to.

In Puerto Rico, its college professors and students, who as I say have no intention of giving up their own citizenship. They may try and talk you out of yours, but they tell people that it will be possible to be independent and retain US citizenship. Which means, obviously, they are not serious people. Its a thirty minute flight to Santo Domingo; most Puerto Ricans know what life is like out from under the US flag. They appreciate it more than, say, your average mainland school teacher.

50 posted on 03/29/2003 5:21:56 PM PST by marron
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